Future games

[Pocus]

played that one too. Abused of american air power (and always wondered if above 200 strength points was authorized)

[Hell Patrol]

Did I mention how brilliantly (and simply) the game built American public opinion and support for the war into the design?

BoA's system of "region" movement and "areas" should be just what Doctor Ho ordered...

Both aspects which are accounted for already, and could easily be tweaked to fit accordingly. Great minds think alike: "We were boardgamers once...and young".

[[FS] Feltan]

...I always felt that its one shortcoming was reliance on hexes, which subtracted from the fluid "feel" I think the subject demands, and caused some fiddling around with geographic realities. BoA's system of "region" movement and "areas" should be just what Doctor Ho ordered...

A hexless game would be great. But then again, nothing like an armored calvary unit on the "road movement" option that only spent initative when involved in combat. I nailed a buddy of mine bad with that one.....all his VC were interdicting the roads....for a very short time.

Regards,
Feltan

[Sol Invictus]

Oh yeah, I remember "Fortress Europa" and "War and Peace", still have them on my bookshelf. I had the "Civil War" ages ago, but was never able to set up a game; the times of free time in the summer where past sadly. I am not sure how well a "Vietnam" game would sell. It would almost exclusively be small unit engagements and is fairly recent. Might suffer from not catching the imagination of historical wargamers. For me at least, it is much more enjoyable and colorful to fight a war over a hundred years ago with the Iron Brigade, Stonewall Brigade, Marbelhead Regiment, and The Old Guard Chasseur Regiment than the 1st Cavalry Division at the Ia Drang Valley. My old division by the way. I would certainly give it a shot, but please cover several other wars first. I think Civil War and Seven Years War would sell very well.

[Adlertag]

Great minds think alike: "We were boardgamers once...and young".

Vulnerant omnes , ultima necat leure: But we are still boardgamers obviously, a passion for life . Almost every year for summer holidays ,I find myself beginning a new game of "The Longest Day" or "World in Flames" , alone to play , nobody else so mad to play with me leure:

[Patriotes1837]

- War & Peace (AH)
- Civil War (VG)
- 1776 (AH)

Those were the only ones I owned but boy did I like them. Played a lot with my father as a young teen. Boy was he mad when he lost!

I never did beat him at Civil War though. I havent played these in years. I should call my father and challenge him!


I wouldnt make a Vietnam war game next though. It could be risky. I would opt for American Civil War or Napoleonic, etc. before.

[Hell Patrol]

Vulnerant omnes , ultima necat leure: But we are still boardgamers obviously, a passion for life . Almost every year for summer holidays ,I find myself beginning a new game of "The Longest Day" or "World in Flames" , alone to play , nobody else so mad to play with me leure:

As long as i have a good glass of French red wine, my favorite pipe/tobacco and La Game De Jour...i am never alone...i am in a better place .

[Korrigan]

Vulnerant omnes , ultima necat leure: But we are still boardgamers obviously, a passion for life . Almost every year for summer holidays ,I find myself beginning a new game of "The Longest Day" or "World in Flames" , alone to play , nobody else so mad to play with me leure:

You were lucky enough to grow up in a city with some familly members as sparing partners...

I grew up in the middle of nowhere, playing games against my self or PBM games (even chess...) and I can't tell you how my world changed for the best when I got my first ATARI 1040 STF. I spent hours on UMS, Balance of Powers, Carrier Command, Defender of the Crown, Full Metal Planet, Windmaster, North and South or UFO (rhaaaaaa... woops, that one was on my 486!!).

Then I became student and I discovered many things (including girls), some of them being role playing nights, Magic and Wargame weekends.

Actually, my last wargame week-end was with Europa, for a (failed) attempt to implement the german Sealion plan against the British.... Wait... but it was against you Aldertag!!

[Adlertag]

Actually, my last wargame week-end was with Europa, for a (failed) attempt to implement the german Sealion plan against the British.... Wait... but it was against you Aldertag!!

A good experience for all of us ( Pocus included ) but a too much rare one.
It's too hard now to find partners , enough time , a good place to lay the map without the presence of childs or a dog ( disaster when it eats the 5th US Inf Div HQ counter from The Longest Day )...think of the 4 m long map of such a game as "Campaign of North Africa" (SPI)
But we must somewhere admit , I think , that the renewal of boardgames interest , if any, came from PC games.

[Sol Invictus]

Yeah, I can remember having to erect an abatis in order to keep our cat from laying right in the middle of the map. I never could understand how that damn cat thought that stretching out on a hard, flat table with small piles of counters sticking in its belly was comfortable, but it never failed; if I ever forgot to throw up the barricades, the cat would be up there taking a snooze as soon as she saw the map. She also liked to squeeze herself into an open Avalon Hill bookshelf game box and slleep on her head. There is no way that could have been comfortable. Cats are deranged.

[[FS] Feltan]

Cats were never friends to board gamers.

My long time (and long suffering) gaming buddy had the same problem. He and I were playing a game of Terrible Swift Sword back in the mid to late 70's that was set up on plywood over his billiard table. We got through two days of game time, and he was prepping for a remake of Picketts charge.

His sister's cat got on the map overnight before we were supposed to meet and finish the game.

When I arrived, the plywood table was empty. His sister was looking in vain for the missing cat.

All I ever got him to admit was that the cat was in "kitty heaven."

Regards,
Feltan

[Flashman]

[quote="Sol Invictus"]Yeah, I can remember having to erect an abatis in order to keep our cat from laying right in the middle of the map. I never could understand how that damn cat thought that stretching out on a hard, flat table with small piles of counters sticking in its belly was comfortable, but it never failed]

I had the same damn problem growing up. I could never understand why, of all the places in my parents house to flop down and roll around, she chose my halfway completed game of GDW's Fire in the East. Is it ok to admit that at 16, I cried like a little girl?

[Adlertag]

I had the same damn problem growing up. I could never understand why, of all the places in my parents house to flop down and roll around, she chose my halfway completed game of GDW's Fire in the East. Is it ok to admit that at 16, I cried like a little girl?

Fire in the East ? another mammoth game along with Scorched Earth ( not sure )... I've bought "The Fall of France" from the same Europa Serie but this is always the same type of games : always started , never finished.

[Pocus]

yes Fire in the East was the Russian front till late 42 IIRC (or was it 43) and Scorched Earth the 2nd opus to 45.

Europa serie was a bit too much, remind me now how it can be too much to play with a one hour step 2nd Word War II in Hoi

[Hohenlohe]

I was a hardcore wargamer on PC since 1991, but I seldom played boardgames although I own some about the American Civil War.I hope for a computer game about Frederick the Great and the Seven Years War, because there was no game about that timeperiod as I remember(please correct me if I am going wrong).If you make a game about the 30 years war then you should also make one about the English Civil War as It span a time shortly after the 30 years war ended.There are so many possibilities making a computer game about because until the 19th century we have seen so many wars in Europe that you have enough choices.But first I suggest a game about the Seven Years War with Frederick the Great and then the Napoleonic War and the War of 1812.The War of 1812 is in Europe relative unknown so you could combine this War with the Napoleonic War if you make a game about this time period.I wish you much luck and I promise you that I will buy the next games from you.

[Grell]

Hohenlohe,

Shrapnel games http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ has some Frederick the Great games. You should check them out.

Regards,

Grell

[PhilThib]

Yes, we know about this game "Prussia's Glory", but it is mostly an operational, or even a tactcial game (i.e. only some battles, no campaign)...so it is a different product

[Grell]

Hello Phillipe,

I agree, the Shrapnel games are tactical, your game design would really make that era an interesting one.

Regards,

Grell

[Sol Invictus]

Yes, Prussia's Glory is a fine game but restricted to single battles. What we really need/desire is a strategic level Seven Years War game with this engine. I would be ecstatic.

[Grell]

Hi Sol,

I hear ya! The seven years war would be amazing if done on this system.

Regards,

Grell

[PhilThib]

Patience folks

[richfed]

Your guess ???

If I say to you that I fell waist-deep in the boardgaming world back in 1978, that will ring many bells...

My long-time favorite list was

- Europa Universalis (AWE)
- War & Peace (AH)
- Civil War (VG)
- 1776 (AH)
- Freedom in the Galaxy (AH)
- Empires in Arms (ADG/AH)
- World in Flames (ADG)

...

Ah yes!!! I thought so. Avalon Hill's 1776 has always been my favorite board game. My sons and I waged some bitter battles that spanned days on end - much to my wife's chagrin, as we had that huge map board spread out on the dining room table!!! Then, the kids grew up & the game sits in a closet somewhere ... I had all the optional leaders & rules, too.

Then, along comes Birth of America. I had ignored it for quite awhile because I thought it was more or less another HPS-type game. I then heard a bit about it over at the Take Command forum, looked at it more closely, and decided to order a copy. On my recommendation, my oldest son did, too.

WOW! 1776 all over again!!! Lots of added details, of course, and no game to set up & put away, but really, it plays very much like that old classic. I was overjoyed! It's got everything but those old battle cards!

Thanks for a great game. I look forward to the upcoming American Civil War release!

[Pocus]

Philippe list is an interesting one, because far before knowing each other we bought the same games. My favorites games are:

War and Peace (AH), Civil War (VG), Pacific War (VG), Freedom in the Galaxy (AH?), World in Flames (ADG), Trial of Strengh (PG*), Vietnam (VG)...

PG*: yes its Panther Games... And I advise every players to check what they are doing now, they are beyond excellency here...

[Carrington]

Philippe list is an interesting one, because far before knowing each other we bought the same games. My favorites games are:

War and Peace (AH), Civil War (VG), Pacific War (VG), Freedom in the Galaxy (AH?), World in Flames (ADG), Trial of Strengh (PG*), Vietnam (VG)...

PG*: yes its Panther Games... And I advise every players to check what they are doing now, they are beyond excellency here...

Heh, this explains a lot. These would be among the games I'd take to a desert island, particularly Civil War and Vietnam. But I'd add MMP's Operational Combat System (Guderian's Blitzkrieg II, Enemy At the Gates)ASL/Red Barricades, Turning Point: Stalingrad, and (emphatically) Paths of Glory.

Patience folks

Patience? Naw, let's get to modding....

I don't know of a single attempt at a strategic-level Vietnam computer wargame. Sad. I hate to sound like a one-trick pony, but I go back to another great Victory Games product, Vietnam 1965-1975, as a source of terrific ideas for a computerized attempt at the subject. The "flowchart" approach to the turn sequence was nothing short of a stroke of genius, as was the handling of South Vietnamese politics and VC/NVN recruiting and infiltration. Did I mention how brilliantly (and simply) the game built American public opinion and support for the war into the design?

I always felt that its one shortcoming was reliance on hexes, which subtracted from the fluid "feel" I think the subject demands, and caused some fiddling around with geographic realities. BoA's system of "region" movement and "areas" should be just what Doctor Ho ordered...

Been thinking of the same thing: I love the version of Vietnam 65-75 that has come out for Vassal (the Java-based, web-enabled wargame construction set.) But the campaign could be streamlined a good deal....

[quote="Sol Invictus"]Yeah, I can remember having to erect an abatis in order to keep our cat from laying right in the middle of the map. I never could understand how that damn cat thought that stretching out on a hard, flat table with small piles of counters sticking in its belly was comfortable, but it never failed]
There are recurrent threads on the Consimworld forums about the care, feeding, deterrence, and use of cats. One of the classics is about "FOBA" -- "Feline on the board artillery" that periodically revisits the ASL threads.

Oddly they have a knack for finding their way to keyboards as well....

[Duckman]

if you are going to use your current engine for a game set in 1618-1650's, pillage and the effect of armies marching through territory has to be well developed.

i personally think that a good game based on 30yw has far more market appeal than about frederick. (i own fredrich the boardgame and its a fantastic game). mainly because there were far more nations involved in 30yw, the battles took place from northern france to southern hungary. also for the anglophone, a shorter campaign centered on the english civil war is a great pull.

in addition, NO game has ever extensively covered the war of 1618-1648. none. the closest we ever got was an EU2 scenario starting in 1618. as long as the gfx are cute and functional, i believe europeans from sweden to spain will be very happy to play 30yw.

[Sol Invictus]

I agree, I think a TYW game would be great.

[Duckman]

I agree, I think a TYW game would be great.

I have to admit that I have not played any AGeod games and am not intricately familiar with the features, so bear with me on some of these notes. Some of the topics that would be interesting in a Thirty Years War game:

-despite the large number of combatant nations, the actual war was fought between two camps. Catholic League vs. Protestants/France. As the war progressed, more and more countries became involved and so what started as a domestic rebellion in Bohemia in 1618 resulted in battlefields as far afield as Rocroi, Denmark etc.

-now i'm not sure how previous titles handle unit creation, but I think that since most of the units involved were mercenaries, money should be used to raise troops. how to get money? through pillage! (there could be various levels of pillage available to a unit stationed in a province. the higher the pillage level, the greater the loot. as a downside, that province would not be able to support as many units int he next turns and would only gradually recover its support capability).

the more you conquer, the more you loot, the more money you have, the larger your armies grow. (of course your monarch would supply you with a certain ammount) so this model would encourage conquest.

now what would stop this snowballing effect in order to provide the mid-end game to be more challenging? the concept of "bad-boy" (think EU/HOI). every conquest/political subjugation would result in all (ALL!) countries being pushed towards your opponents "alliance"/"ideology". naturally the starting point would be different.

on a scale basis:

Bavaria
cath<--0--------->Prot

Saxony
Cath<------0----->Prot

France
Cath<----0------->Prot

Denmark
Cath<----------0->Prot

This doesnt neccesarily mean the religion of the ruling class in a nation but rather its sympathies towards the various warring camps. As you as a player would gain more and more victories, more and more countries would join your opponents cause (possibly even countries of the same religion!). If you progress your conquests too swiftly, you might intimidate and frighten even your former allies sufficiently to join the opposing side!

-the goal of the game would be to completely defeat the opposing camp. possibly after conquest of a country's territory they would quit their former alliance and their political gravity would swing towards the player's end of spectrum. so as long as there is a single nation in the opposing camp, you have to prosecute your war. so if playing a protestant nation, as long as the Catholic League has a single member, the war is not at an end.

-1648, in 1648 the war ended by mutual agreement and returned the situation to "basically" status quo. here there are various options of ending the game. if nobody wins up until 1648, the game end in compromise, or the winner could be declared through point value they gained through the conflict/# of cities controlled etc.

-Pillage! as the game would progress, often contested provinces would become barren and basic dead-zones where no army would march without fear of loosing huge ammounts of troops to starvation/desertion.

-mercenary pay. mercenaries should be quite cheap to recruit but very expensive to support long term. combatants frequently did not pay their troops their wages (sweden an exception?). you could set various levels of support per regiments.less supported/lower supported regiments would suffer and their stats would decrease until they would desert.

-diplomatic options. not sure how diplomacy worked in your previous titles, but through the above system of political spectrum, i think the diplomacy of the conflict could be simulated.

English civil war: perfect intro campaign. simpler diplomacy, basically two parties: royal vs parliament. no switching sides, winner whoever defeats their enemies on the Isles.

[Frost716]

Since they are already working on a similar time period as Victoria, it would be nice to see their take on the time period of Crusader Kings. You can't go wrong with a Medieval game, it will sell if done right.

[arclight]

Well I've seen nothing but positive feedback so far, so this is good news.

I'd also like to see something napoleonic or maybe even something along the lines of the 30 years war. I don't care how fast or slow you guys go, but if you can produce some good entertainment like matrix, paradox, or hps has, then I for one will be a happy camper.

Nice to see you here! How the heck are you doing?

I agree too - have not had a whole lot of time to play (college and programming do get into the way...), but, so far, I really like the system.

After May (and, the release of the ACW product), I'll dive in more extensivly...

-Jeff

[Cosimus]

I like to see a game designed long time ago by Philippe, "La Grande Guerre 14-18". The entire WWI with all (really all!!) aspects of this conflict. As Boardgame, it is one of the best I have ever seen. Although it is rather unrealistic to do it as PC-Game because of the lots of "chrome" rules, and programing the A.I. should be a nightmare, but.... never say never!