Anybody playing Scourge of War: Gettysburg?

[Generalisimo]

It is. And it is funny when a "pirate" buys the game and later claims that his errors (related to bad crack only version) were because he had outdated display drivers. It made my day

Yes, I saw that too... but at least, he bought the game in the end...

[vaalen]

Not me. According to their website, their DRM may require that your firewall and anti-virus protection be disabled while you are on the internet, during "activation".
Since I have already had my computer taken over by a hacker, there is no way in heck that I will be unprotected while on the internet.
I was interested in their Second Manassas game, but that has SECUROM, a very intrusive DRM. My tech support guy advised me to never install a game with SECUROM.
So far, their DRM has cost them two sales to me, and, I suspect, many others.
I remember the developer complaining about poor sales of Second Manassas. I have absolutely no sympathy, because of their DRM. Don't they understand that DRM kills sales, especially for small developers?
Why should any of us risk the security and performance of our computers?
I am so grateful to Ageod for not using risky or harmful DRM.

[vaalen]

I suspect so. In much the same way as strategy gamers are having to come to terms with titles being released in a less than acceptable condition. Just dip into any of the forums to witness the number of players that are indicating that they will no longer purchase new titles until they have been on release for many months. That's not going to do a power of good for the economic survival of software houses.

Add into the mix the death of a manuals which also seems to me so terribly short sighted for those types of game where an UNDERSTANDING of the rules and mechanics is of paramount importance and I reckon its no coincidence that strategy titles might be becoming more and more 'niche'.

OK so folks can always print out a manual but in truth how many players, particularly of the casual sort, want the hassle of printing out perhaps 100 or more pages of rules?

As a gronard I'll live with it all, DRM included, to play the titles that attract me but I doubt if many casual players will do the same.

I am not a casual player. I am as much of a grognard as anybody. And I will not expose my computer to the risks and harm caused by certain DRM. I will not buy this game, because of the DRM.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[PascalB]

Not me. According to their website, their DRM may require that your firewall and anti-virus protection be disabled while you are on the internet, during "activation".

I'm a bit confusing when I read some reactions here...

I've activated my game via their system, and I'd never to disable any of my PC's security system. I just click on a shortcut, it took 3 seconds to connect to their central metabase and it's over. My antivirus, antispam etc...doesn't observe any problems at all...

I dont wanna say that one system is better than another, but I didin't see anything crazy in their way to activate my product... (But i'm quite a noob in PC, that's right )

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Franciscus]

I am glad that here we have so many people that worry about things...
Thanks to you guys, after the incredible hassle and inconvenience of activating SoW in my desktop and even deactivating and reactivating in my laptop (which took me about 15 seconds - but I had to be connected to the internet !!), without any problems from either AVG, Kaspersky, Spybot, or Windows firewall, I found at least another extremely intrusive and inconvenient program - there are several versions, most free, but to use them I have to have it in all my PCs; I have to be connected to the net just to use it, everytime ! To top it all, it frequently tries to introduce malware in my PCs. Do you know what it is ? It's my E-mail program ! I use it because it's useful, but I am certain you guys have long ago abandoned it !

Jokes aside:
- As I stated previously I personally consider in bad taste to use this forum to criticize another company. If you do not like Norb DRM, say it to him. He seems very responsive.
- To me, Sow DRM is no more inconvenient that Steam (that I think some of you use), or the usual "CD on the drive" method.
- It is a GAME. Life is too short to worry that much about it, IMHO. If because of your concerns you pass the oportunity to play one fine game (more and more rare these days), it would be your loss - and less support to the few indie developers that still survive.

Regards

[Generalisimo]

- As I stated previously I personally consider in bad taste to use this forum to criticize another company. If you do not like Norb DRM, say it to him. He seems very responsive.

Why?
I do not think I am even registered in there... I can complain wherever I want... I think...
As far as we stay polite, we are only stating our opinion.

- To me, Sow DRM is no more inconvenient that Steam (that I think some of you use), or the usual "CD on the drive" method.

Sorry, but nope... I have more than 20 games from Steam and I've played them on my notebook without an internet connection far away from home without any activate/deactivate thing. So, it looks like you do not know how Steam works.
Actually, the last time my nephew came home, we played some battles with the MTW2 that I bought on Steam... he was on my desktop computer and I was on my notebook. Again no need to activate/deactivate anything...
I can explain you how Steam works if you are interested.

- It is a GAME. Life is too short to worry that much about it, IMHO. If because of your concerns you pass the oportunity to play one fine game (more and more rare these days), it would be your loss - and less support to the few indie developers that still survive.

I have a lot of games to play (more than the time I have available to play them) and a lot of things to do (like working on VGN for example :siffle ... so don't worry about me, I will have other things to do surelly...

[Franciscus]

My dear Generalissimo:
- When I mentioned Steam I was talking about ETW and the steam client. IIRC this and NTW are the only two Steam games I own.
-I am happy that you have also your time occupied . In fact please do not let me distract you from your work in VgN (which I incidentally will most certainly buy independently of the DRM :neener
- I have also more games than (life)time to play them. Yet for instance I bought all Ageod's games although I in practice almost only played AACW. Why did I buy them: to support a developer that makes good games and because I have not lost hope that someday I will get more free time...
-Do not worry, registration in Sow's forum is DRM free, if you which to talk to Norb

[Generalisimo]

My dear Generalissimo:
- When I mentioned Steam I was talking about ETW and the steam client. IIRC this and NTW are the only two Steam games I own.

I too have ETW... I still remember our discussion about that game...
I do not own NTW... I had enough with ETW.

-I am happy that you have also your time occupied . In fact please do not let me distract you from your work in VgN (which I incidentally will most certainly buy independently of the DRM :neener

Great news then!
Actually, some of the games that I have bought through Steam during the XMas sales are not even installed on my computer yet...
I supose I will play them before the next XMas sale... or at least, I hope so...

- I have also more games than (life)time to play them. Yet for instance I bought all Ageod's games although I in practice almost only played AACW. Why did I buy them: to support a developer that makes good games and because I have not lost hope that someday I will get more free time...

I do the same... but with a small exception... if I will never play a game, I will not buy it.
I have bought a lot of games in the past just to support the developers... but if I am not going to install a game because I do not agree with the DRM system they are using, then it will be a bit silly to buy that too...

-Do not worry, registration in Sow's forum is DRM free, if you which to talk to Norb

I have to choose between finishing the tech tree for VGN... or visiting that forum...

[vaalen]

I am glad that here we have so many people that worry about things...
Thanks to you guys, after the incredible hassle and inconvenience of activating SoW in my desktop and even deactivating and reactivating in my laptop (which took me about 15 seconds - but I had to be connected to the internet !!), without any problems from either AVG, Kaspersky, Spybot, or Windows firewall, I found at least another extremely intrusive and inconvenient program - there are several versions, most free, but to use them I have to have it in all my PCs; I have to be connected to the net just to use it, everytime ! To top it all, it frequently tries to introduce malware in my PCs. Do you know what it is ? It's my E-mail program ! I use it because it's useful, but I am certain you guys have long ago abandoned it !

Jokes aside:
- As I stated previously I personally consider in bad taste to use this forum to criticize another company. If you do not like Norb DRM, say it to him. He seems very responsive.
- To me, Sow DRM is no more inconvenient that Steam (that I think some of you use), or the usual "CD on the drive" method.
- It is a GAME. Life is too short to worry that much about it, IMHO. If because of your concerns you pass the oportunity to play one fine game (more and more rare these days), it would be your loss - and less support to the few indie developers that still survive.

Regards

Well, you did not have to turn off your protection to comply with the DRM. The developer says right on their website that some people may have to disable their firewall and anti-virus protection, while connected to the internet, to activate the game. While you may think it is funny, you will stop laughing if a hacker ever takes over your computer from the internet, as happened to me. Why should we have to take that risk? For a Game!

I did email the developer about the DRM long before I posted here. They never answered. How is that "very responsive"?

We have every right to criticize another company on this forum. Have you ever heard of free speech? I consider it a service to fellow gamers to inform them about the DRM in a game that many of them might otherwise be interested in.

It is also a service to the SOW developer themselves, so they can see how much their DRM is hurting their sales of what seems like a fine game, and see what a lot of the community thinks.

You speak about the "few indie developers left". Then why are they acting like SEGA or UBISOFT? Putting their customers at risk and causing the inconvenience so well described by Gray Lensman, for a DRM scheme that will not stop a single pirate and will only harm their paying customers. If they want to survive, they would do well to
learn from Ageod and Matrix, and put their customers first.

Gray Lensman and myself are natural customers for the game they have developed, and they have driven us away.
And for a DRM that will do nothing to prevent piracy.

If you really care about this company, you might just tell them how this DRM is hurting them, since they are so "responsive" at least to you.

[Franciscus]

The problem with Sow and antivirus / firewall seems IIRC related to a false positive from McAfee. I already had several related problems with Ageod products: trojan in Montjoie, misterious outgoing traffic with aacw.exe (never really well explained, IMHO) etc. It is going to happen, no matter what.
Do you want to know what I think about DRM ? Useless. In fact IMHO it should be abandoned by small developers ! And the pirates ? I hear you ask ?? Do you think any DRM seriously deters pirates ? If Ageod games are not more hacked, it's only because unfortunately they are not that popular. If they were in league with a GTA or CoD, I bet they would do it. Niche games have nothing to loose from a DRM free status. We "serious" players would not pirate them anyway and we would be hassle-free. More people would pirate the games ? More free publicity and some of the pirates may even become interested in "our" games when they would grow up.

Regards

[Generalisimo]

Do you want to know what I think about DRM ? Useless. In fact IMHO it should be abandoned by small developers ! And the pirates ? I hear you ask ?? Do you think any DRM seriously deters pirates ? If Ageod games are not more hacked, it's only because unfortunately they are not that popular. If they were in league with a GTA or CoD, I bet they would do it. Niche games have nothing to loose from a DRM free status. We "serious" players would not pirate them anyway and we would be hassle-free. More people would pirate the games ? More free publicity and some of the pirates may even become interested in "our" games when they would grow up.

Regards

Well, I see that we agree then...

That's why I think the serial number approach is the less intrusive from all the methods available right now. And even in the worst case, that you loose your serial number, you can easilly get a new one from AGEOD if you show a proof of purchase.
Really, all small/indie developers should do something like that...

[Franciscus]

I am glad we agree that DRM is useless. But neither DRM (with the notable exception of starforce :cool nor any irrational (in 2010) internet fear will keep me from buying the games I like and/or want to support. I also agree that we can disagree !

[Gray_Lensman]

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[vaalen]

That's your perogative...

However the usage of such DRMs WILL keep me from buying products laced with them and I'll continue to post it publicly so that they at least know that their usage of such stupid DRM schemes does in fact cost them sales from legitimate customers AND it has nothing to do with "irrational (in 2010) internet fear" nor the actual quality of the game they might be trying to sell. It has solely to do with the inconvenience they saddle legitimate customers with just to chase after the very last sale from hacker/pirates who are going to beat the DRM scheme anyhow.

Well said, Gray Lensman. I agree.

[tagwyn]

Franciscus: I agree with you and have the same joy having more games than time to learn them. Darn it, I just cant help it . . . buying more games. t

[vaalen]

I just took a look at the SOW technical support forum. I counted about 17 separate threads about problems with the DRM, problems that are keeping customers who bought the game from playing it.

Before you buy this game, you would be wise to read those threads to see what kind of DRM hell you could get into if you install this product. The threads have titles with the word "activation", or "game won't work", "game won't start", "can't reinstall", etc. The problem always seems to be about the DRM.

[halfmanhalfsquidman]

I am glad we agree that DRM is useless. But neither DRM (with the notable exception of starforce :cool nor any irrational (in 2010) internet fear will keep me from buying the games I like and/or want to support. I also agree that we can disagree !

DRM bothers me. However, I usually feel that if its the price I have to pay to get the game I want then I will put up with it. My uncle works in the game development community and the issue of piracy bothers me because I feel like it hits closer to home. I understand the situation facing the developers or publishers so if DRM is what they have to do to keep their product from being stolen, then it's a measure I can't find a strong argument against except that it is mildly inconvenient for me.

[richfed]

Yes, yes ... but, what about the PLAYING OF THE GAME? What do folks think???

I bought it, but am having trouble getiining immersed in it.

Wondering about others ...

[soundoff]

Yes, yes ... but, what about the PLAYING OF THE GAME? What do folks think???

I bought it, but am having trouble getiining immersed in it.

Wondering about others ...

Well for what its worth my take is that its a fine addition from another small developer. Tactical rather than strategic but a very good game none the less into which an obvious great deal of work has gone.

My current favourite likes and dislikes are.....


A very comprehensive OOB and I do like the way the scenarios are linked to provide almost a campaign feel. Having to complete the scenarios in order is also a plus for me (although I do realise that some are anti this feature). I'm extremely pleased that losses for both sides are carried forward from one scenario to the next....it teaches one to be frugal with troops.

My major dislikes are too many melee's and the ability to charge in column formation (particularly artillery batteries) but I'm sure these will eventually be modded out of the game.

I understand that micro management is an issue for some but my personal opinion is that virtually all of the wargames really worth playing require a good deal of micro management (assuming one is to get the most out of them).

[Fastsnake]

Why everybody is just talking about the DRM scheme? What's so bad about activate and desactivate your game if you want to play another computer?
Ok that's a pain, but it's not that important after all, come on guys, speak about the game itself a lil' bit for me please!

[madgamer]

The worst case of this was when I bought a game by download only for USA players. There were two choices
1. trygames.com
2.direct2drive.com
The same thing happened at BOTH SITES. I never did like Direct2Drive so I tried the oter one and the game installed and played but I had to reinstall it due to hard drive problems. I get it
installed on the system the second time and a box comes up and tells me I need a new licence to play it. I send them the info and they reply that it is not on there data base so its a no go. I go to there site find my own purchase information and send it again. They reply all is well and a new number will be sent so i can play.
A week goes by and i send them an email and demand a refund which I get. I delete the game and try Direct2 Drive and have further Hard drive problems and the samething happens except they say they sent the code number so I could play but it never arrived either.
Now Koei sells the disk,manual, and case in every other part of the world EXCEPT North America. I send some money to a friend in the UK and he buys the game and mails it to me. My cost ended up about $40-50 which is what It would cost in a store here in the USA. I never buy Koei games because of this policy but I loved this game so I made an exception but never again.

Madgamer

[jennison]

The download version of Scourge Of War: Gettysburg has been reduced to $29.99. Also the feature patch (that is basically like a whole new game) is being released very soon.

[Omnius]

It sounds like Scourge of War was made by the Scourge of Computer Wargamers and after reading through the comments on this thread I sure won't waste my time downloading the free demo. This is the same kind of garbage Talonsoft used to put out with lame linked scenarios that do not simulate a full campaign well in any sense. That DRM nonsense about having to activate or deactivate online is way too Big Brother for me. I'll wait for AGEOD to put out AACW2 before enjoying the American Civil War on my computer.

[Hohenlohe]

It sounds like Scourge of War was made by the Scourge of Computer Wargamers and after reading through the comments on this thread I sure won't waste my time downloading the free demo. This is the same kind of garbage Talonsoft used to put out with lame linked scenarios that do not simulate a full campaign well in any sense. That DRM nonsense about having to activate or deactivate online is way too Big Brother for me. I'll wait for AGEOD to put out AACW2 before enjoying the American Civil War on my computer.

You want to wait for AACW2...?! So you must show some certain patience for years I assume because I think that the Philippes will develop eventually some other games before that but nevertheless I have to show the same patience because I am the same great fan of the ACW and I hope for some decent improvements not only in terms of the AGE engine but even for the gameplay and a decent historicity belonging to the game and that old age.
I hope even for a steampunk game like "SPACE 1889" with an improved AGE engine...*sigh*

greetings from Munich,Bavaria...

Hohenlohe...

edit:*sigh* the soccer club FC Bayern Munich has again lost three plays in series...in the german championship, the European Champions league and now in the german Bundesliga...*phhh* the other relative unknown great Munich soccer club and local rival the TSV 1860 Munich once upon a time German Soccer Master in the sixties are very happy about that FCB defeats...but the TSV still plays in the Second Bundesliga...*grin* but thats just local Munich history sofar...*grin* but if anybody is interested the FCB Basketball departement has got some good publicity in the last weeks...its totally new to most of us Germans that the FCB has a basketball team...I am now just waiting for a totally new FCB Football team although we still have a Munich football team in the german major football league...*grin* but the name is just unknown to me...*sry*
Just some local news from Bavaria...

[ERISS]

I admire AGEod's serial number DRM scheme.

That's not a DRM. Once bought, you can copy, install, and play the game with exactly what you bought: You don't need internet (Steam, preventing installation) nor a special CD/DVD (preventing the coying), nor an hacked driver of your CD/DVD reader (Starforce).
The serial number is not a third party needed hardware (Steam server) nor a third party HW driver (Starforce driver): You can install then play just with your untouched computer.

More than 5€ and DRM: Not for me.
40€ for a good game, belonging to me, and with I'm free: Ok.

[Omnius]

Hohenloe,
As the saying goes good things come to people who wait. I have found that being in a rush to be the first kid on the block owning any computer wargame is a fool's errand. I always wait around two years after a game is released before buying so that I avoid all the bugs that cause frustration. If I have to wait a few years for AACW2 then that's what I'll do. I liked the AACW demo but when I saw how nicely amphibious landings are handled in BoA2 I decided to pass it up and wait for AACW2.

As for my local sports news the Los Angeles Lakers have flipped the switch and now they're playing like it's playoff time. Can't wait for June as the Repeat World Champion Lakers will Threepeat and Kobe Bryant wins the NBA Finals MVP for the third year in a row!

I'm into the girl's soccer scene in Georgia as my youngest Granddaughter is an up and coming soccer star goalie there. Her school won the county championship last year and next year she heads to high school.

[jennison]

It sounds like Scourge of War was made by the Scourge of Computer Wargamers and after reading through the comments on this thread I sure won't waste my time downloading the free demo. This is the same kind of garbage Talonsoft used to put out with lame linked scenarios that do not simulate a full campaign well in any sense. That DRM nonsense about having to activate or deactivate online is way too Big Brother for me. I'll wait for AGEOD to put out AACW2 before enjoying the American Civil War on my computer.

It's a completely different game than a full campaign simulator (far from AACW). It's a real time 3D battle simulator. Saying it's garbage just because it doesn't simulate a full campaign is pretty short sighted IMO.. But to each his own. The attention to detail in the battles and historical accuracy of SOWGB is incredible.. If someone wants a grand strategy Civil War game, AACW is hands down the best. If someone wants a RTS 3D battle game, SOWGB is the best.

And I've never understood why folks are so afraid of DRM... If I find a cool game, I'm going to play it.. Serial number, activation, steam, whatever the method is I'm going to play the thing.

[Hohenlohe]

It's a completely different game than a full campaign simulator (far from AACW). It's a real time 3D battle simulator. Saying it's garbage just because it doesn't simulate a full campaign is pretty short sighted IMO.. But to each his own. The attention to detail in the battles and historical accuracy of SOWGB is incredible.. If someone wants a grand strategy Civil War game, AACW is hands down the best. If someone wants a RTS 3D battle game, SOWGB is the best.

And I've never understood why folks are so afraid of DRM... If I find a cool game, I'm going to play it.. Serial number, activation, steam, whatever the method is I'm going to play the thing.

Dear Jennison, honestly said I know why so many game companies are using DRMs, its very simple.Just risk to take a look on the copy pirate scene and look for the actual games just released and you will be surprised. I did that the last time ten years ago until somebody hacked himself insde my comp very brutal. Sofar my knowledge. Since that time I changed my behaviour seriously and stayed clean and legal. But I know from some old mates that this scene still exists. SO thats the main reason for the use of DRMs. But my personal opinion is simple. If a good game company take it seriuos they can trust theri community. Most of us will strongly support them if we will be heared if there any problem. Sofar I can tell you will get very good support from AGEOD/Paradox FRance , Matrixgames and Paradox and even Electronic Arts as I know. This companies must trust their customers and users. And the first three did it in their own way. They simply trust all of us and their games uses only serial keys in most cases. But there the other companies which uses Starforce which can heavily damage your system software because it implement their protection tools deep in your system and most times you can never delete it in a simple way. Most protection system have some problems with certain drives and especially with burner drives and will therefore prevent any use of that drive. This happened to me two years ago with my original disks with Medieval TW 2 after installing different games with different versions of Securom and Starforce which overlapped in some way and blocked each other. So I had to delete my boot partition and reinstall my system software sofar and must therefore reinstall most of my games...*sigh*

So in a certain case a DRM can ruin not only your system but even any of your games and your personal gaming experience and any fun you want to have with. Very disturbing and irritating! Therefore I am very cautious with some games and even with some game companies because SEGA was really NO help to me and with SECUROM it was the same. Securom did never respond to any of my requests. SO I trust simply that companies like AGEOD and try to help them improving their games and therefore the fun we will have with that games.
Personally I have good game experience since March 1991 as I started with the good ole Wingcommander my gamers career. I specialized myself on turnbased strategy and on dragonlance fantasy rpgs and nowadays on some good MMORPGS and had some good experience with WOW until I decided to stop this due to some game addiction abuses. But I think that I can judge how good a game is and what it needs to improve due to my personal gaming and my personal historical knowlegde.

And I strongly give you the advice never to take part in any pirating a good game and to improve your personal system and computer security in all aspects. As someone who is part of Facebook you should never connect your gamers forum accounts with FB because so many of your employers will look after your hobbies and interests and if you give them some reason they will try to fire you if possible as I have experienced some years ago.

Sofar my personal experiences. I hope that I have not offended any of the Philippes with my confessions and I can offer them to take a decent look on my personal games collection any time they want and on all of my current three systems which I possess. Currently only my PC is operating. Both laptops needs some overhaul. I personal collected since 1991 about 600 old games on the old floppy disks and most of them have massive fragmentation problems sofar. My actual games collection consists about 400 CDs/DVDs with some duplications due to gaming magazine versions or due to the fact that I bought a standard and a collectors version like the ETW and MTWII versions.
I know that all of us worked hard for their money and the same is true for both Phillippes. As a gamer and user I hope for a good and a relatively bugfree game at release date. But sometimes there will be a problem. Usually if you get a game from a greater game company located in the USA these companies got often risk investment capital for developing their games and they must give their investors a certain timeline until release and if the game will be not ready for release at the promised time they will get some heavy problems with that people which will show no patience or mercy so the game companies often releases a game too early due to the conditions they have with their investors. And if then anyone pirated their game especially shortly before release like it happened to Fallout 2 due to the fact that a young german game magazine journalist published his personal mastercopy to the pirating scene shortly before official release date. This ruined the related developer and publisher as I nowadays know and this will be well known in the developer scene too. I got this news in some forums the last 10 years I visited.
So I strongly support good and especially small companies with all my passion and love to prevent such problems and to help improving their games.

Due to my personal historical knowledge (personal book collection:around 2000 books of different genres like sci-fi,fantasy and most of it history) and after without too much pride reading more than 12000 books since my first school class I hope that I can be sometimes a good and decent and certain help if needed. Please regard my words not as arrogance or as an offense. I am simply honest to you.

Sofar my opinion. My old collegues at the Deutsche Post AG would say that the "Preacher" has prayed again due to my old student days in case of my theological studies which I had to stop due to money problems 20 years ago.

I had seen so much good game companies appearing like SSI and MICROPROSE and disappearing due to different problems so I hope that AGEOD will get around any problem and will exist a very long time...

Thats just more then I usual told anybody...

Hohenlohe aka Michael