NM and allies?

[captain14]

In the Jan 1805 PBEM campaign game the Kingdom of Italy starts as a French ally. If someone takes Milano then does France immediately loses 5NM or is the NM loss only to actual French controlled cities?

thanks

[captain14]

Anyone want to reply?
There is a reason for this question because the implications are significant enough for every single game played by anyone.

[PhilThib]

In the Jan 1805 PBEM campaign game the Kingdom of Italy starts as a French ally. If someone takes Milano then does France immediately loses 5NM or is the NM loss only to actual French controlled cities?

Only for French cities (e.g. Torino), but of course if the KOI is conquered, it will seriously hamper French victory in the long term (and net a lot of VP for the conqueror)

[captain14]

Only for French cities (e.g. Torino), but of course if the KOI is conquered, it will seriously hamper French victory in the long term (and net a lot of VP for the conqueror)

Thanks Phil. Now the flip side of this is that Austria would gain 15 NM immediately upon taking Milano yes?
.......this is leading somewhere btw ;-)

[captain14]

Thanks Phil. Now the flip side of this is that Austria would gain 15 NM immediately upon taking Milano yes?
.......this is leading somewhere btw ;-)

Any answer to the above?
This has the potential to derail this and many other games depending on the answer.
We are playing a PBEM and would appreciate an soon as could have major effects for the game.
Thanks

[PhilThib]

Austria would gain 15 NM indeed...France would lose 5

[captain14]

Ok now comes the rub.
I thought you said originally that France does not lose NM for allies. So your most recent answer contradicts the previous answer. No worries we can run with that.
Now if France creates the Kingdom of Naples in 1805, then both Spain and Gb can simply take Naples for 250NM and a 10 year game is over in one battle?
Or added to that France can DOW its own ally Kingdom of Naples and gain 250NM and finish the game?
What is to stop either scenario?
Does anyone in their wildest dream think that GB, France or Spain would have gained superiority over Europe for controlling Naples?
Really?
This is extremely gamey and a game killer!
Who cares what happens in Naples ...it is not London, Paris or Moscow.
250NM you have to be kidding?

[PhilThib]

I thought you said originally that France does not lose NM for allies. So your most recent answer contradicts the previous answer. No worries we can run with that.

France does not lose for Allies (who can have their own NM values for the cities) but does lose for the city if NOT controlled by an ally AND the city is in the France list (Milano is worth 5 for France)

Or added to that France can DOW its own ally Kingdom of Naples and gain 250NM and finish the game?
What is to stop either scenario?
Does anyone in their wildest dream think that GB, France or Spain would have gained superiority over Europe for controlling Naples?
Really?
This is extremely gamey and a game killer!
Who cares what happens in Naples ...it is not London, Paris or Moscow.
250NM you have to be kidding?

Where did you get that value? Napoli is worth 3 NM fof France, no moren no less... and if France does manage to lose the Kingdom of Naples against Britain/Spain, she deserves to lose anyway...

[vicberg]

Ok now comes the rub.
I thought you said originally that France does not lose NM for allies. So your most recent answer contradicts the previous answer. No worries we can run with that.
Now if France creates the Kingdom of Naples in 1805, then both Spain and Gb can simply take Naples for 250NM and a 10 year game is over in one battle?
Or added to that France can DOW its own ally Kingdom of Naples and gain 250NM and finish the game?
What is to stop either scenario?
Does anyone in their wildest dream think that GB, France or Spain would have gained superiority over Europe for controlling Naples?
Really?
This is extremely gamey and a game killer!
Who cares what happens in Naples ...it is not London, Paris or Moscow.
250NM you have to be kidding?

Why do you care about a loss of -5 NM for Naples? This isn't CW2 in which every NM change has a big impact. France can gain 40-50 NM in Austria or Prussia. I've seen French NM go up to 180 after Prussian campaign. -5? Meh.

[captain14]

Because on my objectives list screen for France it says 250NM !..............I think you will all agree that's a bit more than 3NM. If it was just 3 NM I wouldn't be posting.
Spain tells me it is also 250NM for him re Naples.
I am getting confirmation from the British player at the moment.
So is 250NM a bug or what?
250NM means you take that one city you win the game that turn.

[vicberg]

Britain and Spain are both showing 250 NM? Wow. Yes, something is off there unless you've got a display issue on the objectives screen.

[sorta]

Here is FR VP screen.

Naples shows 250 VP points for GB

[MarshalJean]

Big difference between NM and VP...

[captain14]

From page 12 on the Manual Sorta, I believe we are talking about NM not vps. Unless I am reading the below wrong?
On
the right page, each Objective is listed with its worth (this amount is
how much NM is gained/
lost when capturing/losing
an Objective).

[vicberg]

LOL, that's a bug.

[PhilThib]

Weird....here is what I see...Napoli is worth 10 for Britain and 3 fro France...that's more than reasonable

[ATTACH]38715[/ATTACH]

Now I suspect the issue might come from a 'bugged' event value... I noticed that the Kingdom of Naples creation event assigns a value of 10 to the capital of the kngdom (i.e. Napoli), which means that the NM value is multiplied by 10, which might explain some mistakes BUT not a 250 value... I guess a save would be required for Pocus here...

[captain14]

Weird....here is what I see...Napoli is worth 10 for Britain and 3 fro France...that's more than reasonable

[ATTACH]38715[/ATTACH]

Now I suspect the issue might come from a 'bugged' event value... I noticed that the Kingdom of Naples creation event assigns a value of 10 to the capital of the kngdom (i.e. Napoli), which means that the NM value is multiplied by 10, which might explain some mistakes BUT not a 250 value... I guess a save would be required for Pocus here...

Spain tells me he also has Naples listed for 250NM !

As I said at the start 3or 10NM ok but 250NM is an instant game killer.

[sorta]

I've uploaded a save file

[sorta]

Can someone clarify whether the numbers under the Objectives Screen are VPs or NM numbers. I always assumed that they were VPs and have tried to reconcile to thetotal for the week but can't.

[Pocus]

They are NM shifts, once if you lose or take the objective, but each will earn you a bit of VP each turn.

[sorta]

Any ETA on a fix for the 250? Anything else you need?

[Pocus]

VP values for cities are 100% scripted, so we have to find the buggy event. Not done yet I believe.

[Jones]

VP values for cities are 100% scripted, so we have to find the buggy event. Not done yet I believe.

It'd be great if there were a converter built in to auto-correct the 250NM for Naples. I'm seeing it in my MP game as well (playing GB) and we're too far in to want to swallow a restart to fix it.

[Philsavory]

It'd be great if there were a converter built in to auto-correct the 250NM for Naples. I'm seeing it in my MP game as well (playing GB) and we're too far in to want to swallow a restart to fix it.

Agreed. I'm playing single player and I have the same concern (I'm in 1810).

[captain14]

Any news on the Naples 250 NM fix progress?

[Pocus]

We will check soon yes.

[captain14]

Any update on this

[Pocus]

I believe there was a wrong value set for the objective, but it need the latest beta patch and a new campaign.

[sorta]

So it can't be fixed in our game then - we'd have to restart?

[sorta]

Can you confirm as we have to make a decision whether we need to restart