Jeune Grognard wrote: 
Yes, a bit confused..... Two questions, may be silly, and I apologise for this
1) Playing as French, in 1808 the War against Spain has begun: ok, I've planned so. But: now I'm at war not only with Spain, Britain and Sardinia, but I've found myself at war with Italy, Netherlands, Berg, Switzerland, which had previously joined French Empire. If I try to make peace with them, I can not because they are satellites of Bavaria
, but Bavaria is still in French Empire and at peace with me. So, I've thrown Bavaria out French Empire and I've declared war to Bavaria. We will see. But according to me it's a bit strange (and frustrating....). Only Naples, Baden, Wurttemberg, Saxony remained loyal to me. May be I've made some mistakes , I've not understood something. A sort of rebellion? But why "satellites of Bavaria"?
2)Every 4 turns I lose 150-200 points for "diplomacy". I win battles and wars, but I see my score in VP is not so high... When I declared war against Bavaria, in "terrible"1808 this problem has disappeared. So: there is something wrong in scripts regarding Bavaria? Or something I've not understood? A possible solution: not to allow Bavaria to join French Empire and/or conquer München as soon as possible (before Austrians or Prussians)?
Thanks for your attention. This game is really super, but according to me there is something not clear in Diplomacy and VP, 1808 , and Bavaria which become a sort of "major Nation"....
Jeune Grognard
There really seems to be some problems for the engine in dealing with Alliance hierarchy, with minors being released and with CBs one can't act upon that keep popping up and costing VPs.
Right now I am in a game where Prussia has releasead the Duchy of Warsaw when signing a separate peace with Bavaria while at war with me : they had declared war to Bavaria and I had to act on the CB to defend Bavaria so Dowed Prussia but the engine still thought there were 2 separate wars going on. Here the engine should consider from the get go that Bavaria is "diplomatically" part of France and go through a check : If the engine makes Prussia want to dow Bavaria, it should have this logic : criteria are met for Prussia to want to dow Bavaria (ownership of provinces it wants, etc, whatever really) -> before dowing the engine checks that dowing Bavaria means dowing France -> The engine than checks if the criteria (ie enough hatred, etc) are met for Prussia to dow France -> if yes Prussia dows France, if not Prussia doesn't dow anyone.
The second point in this situation is that once I declare war on Prussia to defend Bavaria the 2 wars should be merged into one in the diplomatic engine where Prussia and it's allies are at war with France and its allies and the only possible peace is between the leaders of the 2 alliances : France an Prussia. Defection of minors should be dealt via events (such as the Saxony switches side event, assuming they work of course....).
In your situation it seems that at some point the engine "branched out" the alliance, making Bavaria the leader and not France, meaning that when something meant you being at war with a member of that alliance, you got thrown out, not the country you wound up at war with (ie Spain).
Finally on your second point I am suffering something similar in a way in my game. every few turns I have a CB against GB expiring and am losing 180vps or so, because I am not acting on it. This CB keeps popping up because "GB is at war with my ally", ie France ! It seems that for one routine of the diplo engine, the game forgets that I am France and already at war with th UK !
All in all the diplomatic engine is proving way too complicated for its own good. It should be massively toned down, and every time a minor becomes a member of an alliance its diplomatic engine and ID should be "switched off" so that it becomes merged with its dominating major (France most of the time) in diplomatic terms and only becomes unmerged via events which would be triggered by occupation for x length of time OR tutelary major morale below x for example. This dynamic model would pretty well emulate what happened in history, it would emulate Saxony dropping Prussia once Prussia is trashed (ie has very low morale) + Saxony is occupide. It would emulate Bavaria dropping France in 1813 when France has very low morale, etc...
