Say what? Peace cost the winner?

[Aurelin]

I offered Austria peace as the only way it was going to end was if I drove him out of the game.

Is that why the below took place?

[vicberg]

I assume you had Wien when you offered peace. This would imply that when the treaty kicked off, the regions transferred ownership and that kicked off other processes that didn't care WHY you lose Wien, only that you lost it and thus the messages.

[BruceASinger@gmail.com]

I assume you had Wien when you offered peace. This would imply that when the treaty kicked off, the regions transferred ownership and that kicked off other processes that didn't care WHY you lose Wien, only that you lost it and thus the messages.

Yes, the games punishes you when you accept a surrender.
Why accpet the peace. Why do you want to give back the territory you "Conqured."

When you have 100% loyality in every city and 100% miltary control in all the regions, that country is "conqured."

Even the Game Engine knows accepting the surrender is the wrong thing to do and punishes you for it.

[Pocus]

In April 11th patch this problem should be gone.

[Aurelin]

Yes, the games punishes you when you accept a surrender.
Why accpet the peace. Why do you want to give back the territory you "Conqured."

When you have 100% loyality in every city and 100% miltary control in all the regions, that country is "conqured."

Even the Game Engine knows accepting the surrender is the wrong thing to do and punishes you for it.

Why accept the peace?

Because I didn't want to waste time playing 1939-45 instead of 1805-15. I was winning the war you know. His NM was at 75 compared to my 143.

The Austrian player was *not* offering peace. You would think a player would at the point we were at. Especially given the immense lack of help that was coming from Prussia, Russia and Great Britain.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4011531&mpage=1&key=

As it stands now, the war with Prussia will see it's extermination so this doesn't happen again.

[Kev_uk]

I just did Tilset this afternoon. I had to wait in Danzig with Grande Armee and three Corps for the winter of 1806/7 to finish off Koniesburg, and by that time the Prussian Moral had reached 85 so even after I took that City, I had to take others as well (southern Prussian ones) to hit their moral back down. I had effectively controlled all but one of the Prussian Cities - so I accept Tilset and loose everything that I had won (those winters are damn harsh if out of supply), very costly. I do have Duchy of Warsaw who are allied, so I am now pulling back some very depleted units to Warsaw to rebuild, and then I guess focus on Russia. Hmm. Just wish there was more action in Spain and from Britain; now everyone almost is at Peace with me.

[Aurelin]

I just did Tilset this afternoon. I had to wait in Danzig with Grande Armee and three Corps for the winter of 1806/7 to finish off Koniesburg, and by that time the Prussian Moral had reached 85 so even after I took that City, I had to take others as well (southern Prussian ones) to hit their moral back down. I had effectively controlled all but one of the Prussian Cities - so I accept Tilset and loose everything that I had won (those winters are damn harsh if out of supply), very costly. I do have Duchy of Warsaw who are allied, so I am now pulling back some very depleted units to Warsaw to rebuild, and then I guess focus on Russia. Hmm. Just wish there was more action in Spain and from Britain; now everyone almost is at Peace with me.

Gives you time to prepare for Round 2

[vicberg]

It depends how revolts are setup in this game. I haven't looked at that yet. I would assume that if you conquer and never declare peace, over time, revolts should start up. So if you attempt to conquer Austria and Prussia, most of your army will be garrisoning rather than fighting in Russia or Spain or defending against Britain.

Please post the results. Are there revolts over time or not?

[nedfn1]

I am playing France in a 7 player game. I have been at war with Austria for a year. When I first offered terms to Austria, I had just taken Wein and Trieste. Austria said he would never surrender so I proceeded to take his towns and cities. I now have all towns and cities West and South of Wein. Now Austria wants peace. My war score against Austria is 273. It allows me to take several territories around Wein but no free states and no cities. Recently the Russian allies of Austria retook an Austrian town. The town immediately reverted to Austrian control and the Russians lost victory points! I am concerned that if I accept a peace with Austria, my loss of VP's for towns and cities given back will exceed the VP's I get from a surrender. In addition, I already control the territories that I can claim in a peace offer. The only practical approach for me is to complete the conquest of Austria and put Austria out of the game. I know that this is not the point of the game but it is my only logical option.
We did the April upgrade as soon as it was released and the situation with the Russian recapture of an Austrian town described above occurred after the patch was applied.

[Aurelin]

It's sad that we have to play Wars of Napoleon 1939-45.

But people have this mentality of "better destroyed than a surrender."

In a 500+ turn game, that's just silly.

[Taillebois]

Do you think there is an internet bravery type thing about playing war games - it is so easy to send pixel troops to die with a click of the mouse?

It's sad that we have to play Wars of Napoleon 1939-45.

But people have this mentality of "better destroyed than a surrender."

In a 500+ turn game, that's just silly.

[Aurelin]

Do you think there is an internet bravery type thing about playing war games - it is so easy to send pixel troops to die with a click of the mouse?

No.

In my PBEM, I see the opposite. Everyone is afraid to fight. Except me. Why declare war then sit on your hands while your ally gets smashed?

[Taillebois]

No.

In my PBEM, I see the opposite. Everyone is afraid to fight. Except me. Why declare war then sit on your hands while your ally gets smashed?

Maybe the difference is PBEM - real people - whereas against a PC AI who cares?

[coach3play4]

every one to their own! but ive always found in playing computer war games i have more fun with it if i play more cautious or historical rather than doing things to beat the game. so i will do "stupid" things in playing the AI just to keep things interesting. each to his own!

[Aurelin]

Maybe the difference is PBEM - real people - whereas against a PC AI who cares?

Which is why I don't care for being part of an alliance. People will ruin it.

The excuse I've heard is Austerlitz. So, the Russo-Austrian army lost. Russia didn't make peace until after Freidland in 1807.

The other excuse I've heard is the power of the French army. So why didn't Russia/Prussia seek peace? Why didn't Austria?

Put it this way. Austria fought the war alone. The Austrian player has been arguing otherwise, but the facts speak for themselves.

Prussia declares war, and loses Hamburg to Davout's Army of Germany. So what was the point?

Russia does a couple of cavalry raids that did nothing of import. Certainly didn't slow the Grande Armee down.

So now, the same superior French army is free to roll into Prussia. I have three years to deal with them.

[Aurelin]

every one to their own! but ive always found in playing computer war games i have more fun with it if i play more cautious or historical rather than doing things to beat the game. so i will do "stupid" things in playing the AI just to keep things interesting. each to his own!

Curious as to how this has any bearing on a PBEM of 7 players.

[RebelYell]

What is Spain doing?

[Aurelin]

What is Spain doing?

In my game, GB invaded Spain, who surrendered without a battle. Naturally they have their army reform now.

They're not my ally anymore. And they gave GB passage....

Wonder what they'll do when I send the Army of Spain toward Gibraltar. (Not finished building it yet.) I have passage rights.

Those troops would of been used to help Spain, but now......

[RebelYell]

In my game, GB invaded Spain, who surrendered without a battle. Naturally they have their army reform now.

They're not my ally anymore. And they gave GB passage....

Wonder what they'll do when I send the Army of Spain toward Gibraltar. (Not finished building it yet.) I have passage rights.

Those troops would of been used to help Spain, but now......

He on purpose lost to the Brits???

Crazy stuff, I would have allied with France.

[vicberg]

When someone invades Spain, that enables Army Reform. In base game, it's the only way.

[RebelYell]

When someone invades Spain, that enables Army Reform. In base game, it's the only way.

Sure but why surrender?

[Aurelin]

He on purpose lost to the Brits???

Crazy stuff, I would have allied with France.

Spain and France are allied at start.

It's a gamey move that needs to be fixed.

Now, so I don't start another thread.

Austria is degrading relations with Bavaria, which is a French ally. So.....

What happens I have to declare war to support the ally. We have a three year peace.

I have free passage through Austria. Suppose I put the army in Wien and Buda and war breaks out?

Just wondering how much damage is done if France has to declare war. Austria thinks it would ruin France's reputation. I think that, if there is such a thing, it won't matter when Austria gets the snot beat out of it, again.

[RebelYell]

Spain and France are allied at start.

It's a gamey move that needs to be fixed.

Now, so I don't start another thread.

Austria is degrading relations with Bavaria, which is a French ally. So.....

What happens I have to declare war to support the ally. We have a three year peace.

I have free passage through Austria. Suppose I put the army in Wien and Buda and war breaks out?

Just wondering how much damage is done if France has to declare war. Austria thinks it would ruin France's reputation. I think that, if there is such a thing, it won't matter when Austria gets the snot beat out of it, again.

Can you end the peace treaty?
The game seems to like that diplomatic etiquette is followed so end all treaties that might conflict with your DOW.
Also give time to allow your allies to end their treaties following you.

[vicberg]

Sure but why surrender?

Because they planned it! Britain DOWs and invades Spain, enabling Spain to enact army reforms and Spain surrenders without a fight. I removed this in my mod and made Spain just like Austria/Prussia/Russia. Requires 1000 EP to enact army reforms. I also removed the 1810 date restrictions for all major powers. If you save 1000 EP you get army reforms.

[vicberg]

Spain and France are allied at start.

It's a gamey move that needs to be fixed.

Now, so I don't start another thread.

Austria is degrading relations with Bavaria, which is a French ally. So.....

What happens I have to declare war to support the ally. We have a three year peace.

I have free passage through Austria. Suppose I put the army in Wien and Buda and war breaks out?

Just wondering how much damage is done if France has to declare war. Austria thinks it would ruin France's reputation. I think that, if there is such a thing, it won't matter when Austria gets the snot beat out of it, again.

Your relationships will take a hit but otherwise, beat them up again.

[Aurelin]

Your relationships will take a hit but otherwise, beat them up again.

Thanks!!

I'm considering doing the Wien/Buda thing. Or destroy Prussia.

Decisions, decisions....

[Aurelin]

He on purpose lost to the Brits???

Crazy stuff, I would have allied with France.

The GB player said he told Spain to scuttle half the fleet after I complemented him on his gamey move. He was scared of it........

Really? The Royal Navy afraid of the Spanish one????

[vicberg]

Thanks!!

I'm considering doing the Wien/Buda thing. Or destroy Prussia.

Decisions, decisions....

What year? You only need 2 corp to hold Austria at bay. The rest can smash Prussia.

[RebelYell]

The GB player said he told Spain to scuttle half the fleet after I complemented him on his gamey move. He was scared of it........

Really? The Royal Navy afraid of the Spanish one????

Well he most likely ment you combining them, you can do some moves with a combined fleet.

Next he will take out the Dutch and Danish navies, most likely scared of them also.

[vicberg]

The navies don't matter. GB has such dominance over the seas. All other powers combined make up 10% of the British fleet