Retreating

[RGA]

Launched the French 2nd army at Metz (late August '14) and saw roughly equal casualties (40,000) before the French retired. Both sides sucked in troops from surrounding areas as well so it was a large battle. However when checking the battle log was surprised to see the amount of hits the French took when retreating, over 90 hits!. The poor French 4e corps from the next region took 26 hits when retreating. This seems excessive to me. The punishment for retreating seems overdone. Why shouldn't an attacker be able to call of an offensive that isn't working and retire in good order. Any one have any thoughts on this ?

UPDATE
The 4e corps routed which is why, I assume, the hits were higher here than other units.

[RGA]

Here are the settings (I think) for controlling retreat logic. Any one know what they all mean ? Especially the ones in bold. Thanks.

// ********************************************************
// ***** CONTROL & RETREAT *****
// ********************************************************

ctlContested = 5 // Minimum control gained upon entering a region (if not passive)
ctlAllowRetreat = 5 // Minimum control to have in a region to allow a retreat into it
ctlRetreatAdjCity = 5 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a city (per level)
ctlRetreatAdjFort = 30 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a fort (per level)
ctlRetreatAdjDepot = 25 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a depot (per level)
ctlRetreatLandLink = 10 // Interest in retreating toward a region, value per land link
ctlRetreatPrevSubSpaceCoeffH = 500 // Coefficient applied to the interest if the region is the one where we are coming from
ctlNoBeachHead = 10 // Minimum control to have so that a region is not a beach/riverhead if you have to cross a body of water before attacking


// Added September 22, 2012
cltRetPenaltyPerNmySU = 4 // retreat penalty (in interest pts) for each nmy SU in retreating region
cbtRetreatMax = 100 // Max retreat chance
cbtRetreatBaseCoeff = 50 // base damage coefficient to retreat global formula
cbtRetreatCoeffChangeRnd = 10 // +10% retreat damage per round after the first
cbtRetreatCoeffBaseSize = 75 // 75 SU don't change damages because of size of retreater
cbtRetreatMoreSizeChunk = 1 // each 1 SU above BaseSize (75) leads to +1 damage %
cbtRetreatLessSizeChunk = 1 // each 1 SU under BaseSize (75) leads to -1 damage % (so 1 SU retreating = -74% damages)
cbtRetreatMaxSizeMod = 200 // Can't take more than 200% of damages because of big size
cbtRetreatMinSizeMod = 25 // Can't take less than 25% of damages because of small size

// added 120922
cbtMaxDmgReducScreener = 50 // *screener* can at most reduce dmg by 50%
cbtMaxDmgIncDisrupter = 50 // Each disrupter functions at +50% for retreat damage
cbtRoutCoeffDmg = 250 // if routing, x2.5 the normal damages EXP

ctlChgControlCoeff = 10 // Factor for amount region control can change
cbtPercDayBonusForRetreat = 500 // 5x Days per turn bonus in retreat (instant retreat)

[Kensai]

I wish ROE of nearby could play a bigger role in the MTTSOG. This way we could select certain units to engage with more vigor than others, as it happens with the primary unit that asks the assistance in the first place.

[RGA]

I wish ROE of nearby could play a bigger role in the MTTSOG. This way we could select certain units to engage with more vigor than others, as it happens with the primary unit that asks the assistance in the first place.

I think something is being worked upon but don't know what.

[RGA]

Found this which gives an explanation of how hits are inflicted during a retreat. I can't see this model working for trench warfare though although I've not got that far in any of my games yet.

http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Pursuit

[Highlandcharge]

There is a lack of cavalry for pursuits in WWI though, does that make a difference?

[loki100]

Here are the settings (I think) for controlling retreat logic. Any one know what they all mean ? Especially the ones in bold. Thanks.

// ********************************************************
// ***** CONTROL & RETREAT *****
// ********************************************************

ctlContested = 5 // Minimum control gained upon entering a region (if not passive)
ctlAllowRetreat = 5 // Minimum control to have in a region to allow a retreat into it
ctlRetreatAdjCity = 5 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a city (per level)
ctlRetreatAdjFort = 30 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a fort (per level)
ctlRetreatAdjDepot = 25 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a depot (per level)
ctlRetreatLandLink = 10 // Interest in retreating toward a region, value per land link
ctlRetreatPrevSubSpaceCoeffH = 500 // Coefficient applied to the interest if the region is the one where we are coming from
ctlNoBeachHead = 10 // Minimum control to have so that a region is not a beach/riverhead if you have to cross a body of water before attacking


// Added September 22, 2012
cltRetPenaltyPerNmySU = 4 // retreat penalty (in interest pts) for each nmy SU in retreating region
cbtRetreatMax = 100 // Max retreat chance
cbtRetreatBaseCoeff = 50 // base damage coefficient to retreat global formula
cbtRetreatCoeffChangeRnd = 10 // +10% retreat damage per round after the first
cbtRetreatCoeffBaseSize = 75 // 75 SU don't change damages because of size of retreater
cbtRetreatMoreSizeChunk = 1 // each 1 SU above BaseSize (75) leads to +1 damage %
cbtRetreatLessSizeChunk = 1 // each 1 SU under BaseSize (75) leads to -1 damage % (so 1 SU retreating = -74% damages)
cbtRetreatMaxSizeMod = 200 // Can't take more than 200% of damages because of big size
cbtRetreatMinSizeMod = 25 // Can't take less than 25% of damages because of small size

// added 120922
cbtMaxDmgReducScreener = 50 // *screener* can at most reduce dmg by 50%
cbtMaxDmgIncDisrupter = 50 // Each disrupter functions at +50% for retreat damage
cbtRoutCoeffDmg = 250 // if routing, x2.5 the normal damages EXP

ctlChgControlCoeff = 10 // Factor for amount region control can change
cbtPercDayBonusForRetreat = 500 // 5x Days per turn bonus in retreat (instant retreat)

i *think*that basecoeff is the trigger to think about retreating (ie once 50% of elements are damaged) modified by relative size and so on
Screener/Dsirupter are leadership traits in other AGE games, not sure if any commanders in EAW have these

The top block determine where a unit will try to go.

So you need at least 5% MC in a region, once you pass this then retreating towards a fort will be very attractive but depot will also be seen as viable. Finally, if you have moved out of a province to engage in combat, its almost inevitable you will retreat back there.

Its the latter rule that causes most problems (I think) as if you are caught retreating, your direction of travel has no bearing, just where you came from. I'd like some weight given to a 'where are you already ordered to go' concept.

[RGA]

Thanks loki100, I've tried to reduce the hits incurred from 'pursuit' but with no effect so far. I have done some tests in trench warfare on the western front and am seeing the same combat model, where hits are incurred on the retreating army from pursuing forces, whatever they are, cavalry perhaps. The combat model, as is, seems more inclined towards ancient warfare where a defeated army was chased off the battlefield and cut down as they try to escape. I even tried a feint attack and got a good kicking when retreating.

Would be interested to hear from a dev on this.

[numahr]

Sorry to add confusion but my understanding is that cbtRetreatBaseCoeff = x is the multiplier applied to damages inflicted to retreating units. I say this because I am sure that a similarly worded line affects rout damage in AJE and because all other parameters in this area are concerned with determining the level of damages inflicted during retreat.

If this is right, 50 means that retreating units get only 50% of normal damage during retreat; reducing this number would reduce the impact of retreat losses.

[numahr]

Sorry to add confusion but my understanding is that cbtRetreatBaseCoeff = x is the multiplier applied to damages inflicted to retreating units. I say this because I am sure that a similarly worded line affects rout damage in AJE and because all other parameters in this area are concerned with determining the level of damages inflicted during retreat.

If this is right, 50 means that retreating units get only 50% of normal damage during retreat; reducing this number would reduce the impact of retreat losses.

[RGA]

Sorry to add confusion but my understanding is that cbtRetreatBaseCoeff = x is the multiplier applied to damages inflicted to retreating units. I say this because I am sure that a similarly worded line affects rout damage in AJE and because all other parameters in this area are concerned with determining the level of damages inflicted during retreat.

If this is right, 50 means that retreating units get only 50% of normal damage during retreat; reducing this number would reduce the impact of retreat losses.

Thanks numahr, I tried varying that but didn't seem to make any difference. I will try again though

[numahr]

I have consulted the AGEOD Wiki on retreat and Pursuit on this issue: I can confirm that this value is the base one to define retreat losses.

You may want to try decreasing that one, too:
cbtRetreatCoeffChangeRnd =

It creates a cumulative bonus to retreat damage for each round of battle. In the case of longer battles, it becomes the primary factor, more important than the base one. So for long battles, even if you put the base to 0, this factor will generate significant losses. Try putting both at 0 to see...

[RGA]

I have consulted the AGEOD Wiki on retreat and Pursuit on this issue: I can confirm that this value is the base one to define retreat losses.

You may want to try decreasing that one, too:
cbtRetreatCoeffChangeRnd =

It creates a cumulative bonus to retreat damage for each round of battle. In the case of longer battles, it becomes the primary factor, more important than the base one. So for long battles, even if you put the base to 0, this factor will generate significant losses. Try putting both at 0 to see...

Will do, thanks numahr

[RGA]

I changed the values in bold to 0

// ********************************************************
// ***** CONTROL & RETREAT *****
// ********************************************************

ctlContested = 5 // Minimum control gained upon entering a region (if not passive)
ctlAllowRetreat = 5 // Minimum control to have in a region to allow a retreat into it
ctlRetreatAdjCity = 5 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a city (per level)
ctlRetreatAdjFort = 30 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a fort (per level)
ctlRetreatAdjDepot = 25 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a depot (per level)
ctlRetreatLandLink = 10 // Interest in retreating toward a region, value per land link
ctlRetreatPrevSubSpaceCoeffH = 500 // Coefficient applied to the interest if the region is the one where we are coming from
ctlNoBeachHead = 10 // Minimum control to have so that a region is not a beach/riverhead if you have to cross a body of water before attacking


// Added September 22, 2012
cltRetPenaltyPerNmySU = 4 // retreat penalty (in interest pts) for each nmy SU in retreating region
cbtRetreatMax = 100 // Max retreat chance
cbtRetreatBaseCoeff = 0 // base damage coefficient to retreat global formula
cbtRetreatCoeffChangeRnd = 0 // +10% retreat damage per round after the first
cbtRetreatCoeffBaseSize = 75 // 75 SU don't change damages because of size of retreater
cbtRetreatMoreSizeChunk = 1 // each 1 SU above BaseSize (75) leads to +1 damage %
cbtRetreatLessSizeChunk = 1 // each 1 SU under BaseSize (75) leads to -1 damage % (so 1 SU retreating = -74% damages)
cbtRetreatMaxSizeMod = 200 // Can't take more than 200% of damages because of big size
cbtRetreatMinSizeMod = 25 // Can't take less than 25% of damages because of small size


and then attacked Metz with the French 2nd army (including 9 and 20 corps) on turn 1 of the western front campaign and suffered a retreat with the following hits

Deuxieme Armee will take 47 hits while retreating (though no hits can be done on round 0)

This seems too much to me. Makes me think my change had no effect.