Troops not fully resupplied after capturing a city with a depot

[minipol]

Stand Watie captured Lexington and it's depot.
However, the next turn after the battle he still isn't fully supplied.
Shouldn't he have 100% ammo and supplies?

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[Z74]

Stand Watie captured Lexington and it's depot.
However, the next turn after the battle he still isn't fully supplied.
Shouldn't he have 100% ammo and supplies?

Yep.

[Jim-NC]

Isn't supply after order planning? If so, he will gain supplies after your give your orders, but before the movement phase.

[minipol]

Next turn, he was fully supplied, but if he was attacked after capturing the city, he would have been on low supply whilst he just captured a city.
That's not correct.

[Jim-NC]

That's the way the game engine gives/takes supply. Supply transport/consumption (not ammo consumption) is at the beginning of the movement phase, after orders are given.

[minipol]

Yes, but it would be more realistic if they were supplied from the supplies captured from the depot.

[Z74]

They should be supplied immediately upon capturing the settlement.
The Assault + All Out allows you to capture a settlement and then move on during the same turn. You could theoretically capture more than one so it's important they are resupplied at once and not after you press the end turn button.

If he captured Lexington in late June 62 and in early July 62 he's not fully supplied that's a bug. Out of those 1121 and 549 all those not immediately used to resupply his force, NOTHING should remain there. They should all be forwarded as per supply rule to places in more need so that in early July 62 there's only those re-produced by the depot itself.

[veji1]

I think you are exagerating somewhat. I don't see how Watie could suddenly organise a massive supply and ammo transfer across Missouri in a few days (between the end of the late june turn and the beginning of the early july). Makes no sense : There is no railway, nothing proves he has the river secured, nor the floating stock etc... So I disagree wholeheartedly with you second point.

On the first point, it is a game mechanic issue : Supply is handled once a turn, after orders but before movement. That's the way it is. To have supply handled throughout the turn after each movement or event would be a nightmare. And let me remind players that this is what supply wagons are for : supply traveling with the force from which forces can pump out ammo and general supply. Sure the ingame supply mechanism isn't perfect, but it works fine. if you want to travel far and capture places on the fly and move on, you have to have supplies (wagons) with you. if you want to make sure you get supplied, stop at a city you own/capture, and you shall be resupplied by the time the next turns is played by the computer.

[Z74]

I think you are exagerating somewhat. I don't see how Watie could suddenly organise a massive supply and ammo transfer across Missouri in a few days (between the end of the late june turn and the beginning of the early july). Makes no sense : There is no railway, nothing proves he has the river secured, nor the floating stock etc... So I disagree wholeheartedly with you second point.

What would he do then, burn them since he can't possibly hold Lexington against the Union counteroffensive right? Unfortunately... there's no such option. He could destroy the depot but what about the supply?

On the first point, it is a game mechanic issue : Supply is handled once a turn, after orders but before movement. That's the way it is. To have supply handled throughout the turn after each movement or event would be a nightmare. And let me remind players that this is what supply wagons are for : supply traveling with the force from which forces can pump out ammo and general supply. Sure the ingame supply mechanism isn't perfect, but it works fine. if you want to travel far and capture places on the fly and move on, you have to have supplies (wagons) with you. if you want to make sure you get supplied, stop at a city you own/capture, and you shall be resupplied by the time the next turns is played by the computer.

The problem is that he hit the next turn and at the beginning of the following turn he was not resupplied. It should take one day and it didn't work. If he had, theoretically, captured the town at the 14th day, the 15th he'd have been resupplied and at the beginning of the following turn he'd have been in supply.

Maybe supply should be working as it does now but then it should have one extra step (only this particular check) just prior to the beginning of the new turn. Considering we're having the "ammo bug" checked out by Pocus right now, this would be the perfect moment to make the right choice on the game mechanics.

The MO forces are mobile, they can't handle supply carts, they're virtually raiders and that's exactly what a raider should do: steal supplies on the fly, organize transfer of the other supplies that can be transferred, then burn down the rest.

Partisan and irregulars already do that ... but they only do that to DEPOTS, not to the supply themselves.

[veji1]

Z74, he is resupplied on the next turn. It is more of a display issue than anything else. The map and positions and setting displayed before your eyes are a snapshot at the end of the movement/batlle phase of the previous phase, but before the supply phase. Turns are basically processed as follow : You see the screen and plot your moves, buy your things and such, press play and than 1/ Supply phase distributes supplies and ammo around, units get topped up than 2/ computer plots its moves than 3 first thing of the movement phase your new units appear where they are than 4/ rest of the movement/battle phase until end of turn. This is the way it is and is a legacy of past game. But in a sense it is wrong because ideally you would have a clear picture of supplies and stuff. Now we have :
- 1/plotting 2/ supply phase 3/ movement / 4 see the situation and again 1/ plotting
but ideally we should have so that we see exactly the supply situation.
- 1/plotting 2/ movement 3/ supply distribution and 4/ you get to see what the situation and then again 1/plotting, 2/ movement and 3/ supply etc..

[Z74]

Stand Watie captured Lexington and it's depot.
However, the next turn after the battle he still isn't fully supplied.
Shouldn't he have 100% ammo and supplies?

The notes Minipol is displaying are written at the beginning of the turn AFTER Watie has captured Lexington (which has the CSA flag).
Those 1121 supply and 549 ammo are in his hands at the beginning of the turn and, as you can see in the tooltip on the right Watie has 27% supply and 0% ammo.

I know supply is processed before everything else and I am saying there should be an extra supply phase right at the end of the processing so that events such as this do not take place. It is in this phase that CAPTURED supply/ammo should go to the capturing force and any excess should be dealt with.

I think a factor, that derives from the number/type of men should be forwarded through own supply lines and the rest should be LOST (to both sides). This is the right way to handle the situation and to have CSA actually RAID for supply. You can't let Watie stay there, that depot ought to be destroyed and Watie kept mobile and yet he can't move because his forces are starving.

This has got to be addressed.

[veji1]

I know what you mean and I agree that it should be different, but what I meant is that Watie will be supplied once the turn actually starts. What you see is a picture before the turn. it is counterintuitive I agree, but once the first day of the next turn is played, Watie will be 100% supplied. Watie can move. Have him destroy the depot and leave, he will have pumped the supplies he needs before the turn starts playing and he actually blows the depot and leaves. But again I agree that the way the turns are structured mean that the players doesn't get the real picture in terms of supplies, the supply phase should really be the last phase of a turn, so that a player knows exactly where he stands.

[StoneWall Jackson]

Completely agree with you both. The issue here is you have to plan a move based upon "faith" that your unit will be supplied once it moves.

Also, units running out of supply that make it to a friendly town before the end of the turn, still show no supply at the beginning of the next turn.

Also, if the supply is limited, and you have several independent units that you wish to move in different directions, how are your supposed to determine the ones you move? If there is only going to be 20 supply available, and you have three units that require 12 supply each to be topped off, how will you know the ones that are going to be topped off? This seriously hinders the confederate player moreso than the union player imho.

[Z74]

The importance of supply for CSA is paramount.
If Blockades are made to work for the Union, raiding and capturing supply is the real deal for CSA.

The harder the grip of the Union on CSA the more important capturing those supplies becomes... it's not just about Watie and his force, it's for the side that those supplies must be dealt with in an extra phase. Surely Watie is not supposed to leave them there for the capture and even if he destroys the depot what happens to those supplies in Lexington?

I'd like to know what the DEVs think about this... maybe something can be done for 1.03?

[StoneWall Jackson]

I played several PBEM games not knowing this aspect, until just a couple of days ago. I was leaving my force at the supply source so they could get supply, when in fact they did not have to sit there for this extra turn. My opponent caught one of my Calvary forces doing this in Missouri and devastated it. I got to talking about it with him and he told me about the supply going to them before the move, even tho it did not show up prior to the move. Funny thing, I never knew this for all these years I have played, CW1 and now CW2.

I do hope this can be worked out like your saying with the developers. Lets hope so.