Public Beta Patch 1.06 RC3 (upd May 13th)

[Pocus]

This will probably normalizes over time for a grand total of (guess what) 100. Aside that, no issue, MC changes work it seems.

[Captain_Orso]

Like the last Lego brick of your scale reproduction of the U.S. Capital building snapping into place .


Anything you'd like to pass on about how the MC is calculated after battles now?

[DrPostman]

I have to say that I'm having a much tougher time with Athena as the Union in
my current game. Started off well, and I had all of Virginia under CSA control,
but by the middle of 62 I had lost all the Shenandoah valley all the way down
to the doorstep of Lynchburg. While I had Alexandria things were looking badly
on the left. At one point I pulled out of Alexandria because I thought they were
doing an end-around. Very tough battles ensued and I think I got lucky a few
times there, and now it's being reversed again with me back fighting in the
Shenandoah. One strange thing is that even though I pull out of Alexandria
Athena made no attempt to take it back. Once I walked back in though a
pretty good sized corps walked over the Potomac and committed mass suicide:

[ATTACH]33591[/ATTACH]

[DrPostman]

BTW, by "tougher time" I mean I'm enjoying the better challenge
I have from from Athena.

[Paul Roberts]

If I may ask, what settings are you using?

[DrPostman]

If I may ask, what settings are you using?

Delayed Commitment - small delay
Historical Attrition - standard
Automated Replacements - off
Easy Supply - off
Traffic pentalty - off (waiting for that to get fleshed out more)
AI detection - low
AI Ranking - leutanant
Aggressivness - normal
Use all behaviors - on
Give AI more time - on
Activation bonus - easy
Memory Usage - max

[Pocus]

To Cpt Orso: A simple evaluation of who was beaten. This side will relinquish half its MC to the winner and that's it. Plus you continue to get the +1% MC per element killed...

[Gray Fox]

Dr. Postman, so Athena had Hooker in command of an all artillery Division? Imagine that!

[Captain_Orso]

To Cpt Orso: A simple evaluation of who was beaten. This side will relinquish half its MC to the winner and that's it. Plus you continue to get the +1% MC per element killed...

K, t(h)anks!

[DrPostman]

Dr. Postman, so Athena had Hooker in command of an all artillery Division? Imagine that!

I noticed that too. I wonder if Pocus tweaked the engine to where
she would form up artillery divisions? I like it if he did. Makes her
fight harder.

How often have you guys seen an entire corps be destroyed like that
though? I've rarely seen total destruction like that.

[Cardinal Ape]

How often have you guys seen an entire corps be destroyed like that
though? I've rarely seen total destruction like that.

Very rarely - it almost always involves a river crossing.

Did you capture any of that artillery out of curiosity?

To me the weirdest thing in your screenshot is that blockade flotilla outside of Memphis!?

[DrPostman]

Very rarely - it almost always involves a river crossing.

Did you capture any of that artillery out of curiosity?

To me the weirdest thing in your screenshot is that blockade flotilla outside of Memphis!?

Nothing survived. It must have all drowned in the Potomac. As for the Union ships
outside of Memphis that is what remained of a fleet that tried to take Beaumont TX
with a small force. The Union fleet strangely hung around in Sabine Bay and I sent
Hollins and his fleet to attack them. After reducing it down to one ship (I didn't look
to see how many or what survived) I needed supplies so I put in to the nearest
supply port, and next thing I know they are steaming up the Mississippi, surviving
multiple batteries attacking them until Island #10. I didn't see them after that. I
guess what remained was the equivalent of a brig since they are able to travel the
rivers. When I play the Union and I take New Orleans I always have at least a half
dozen or more brigs to use as a river fleet until I can build timberclads in New Orleans.

If you want to explore and see for yourself its a turn or two back from this save. I
have things set to keep 6 saves so it's still there:

[ATTACH]33594[/ATTACH]

[DrPostman]

I got curious and had a look for myself. It's from the early Dec turn, so I
almost didn't have it. It's a steam frigate that was attempting to get to
Rome Indiana! Supposed to be ocean restricted so I don't know how that
could have happened.

[ATTACH]33599[/ATTACH]

[Cardinal Ape]

Most bizarre. I guess all waterways lead to Rome.

[Paule3000]

Most bizarre. I guess all waterways lead to Rome.

[Captain_Orso]

I've seen Athena do stranger things. The only thing that worries me about this, is that the only ocean going ships that should be able to sail above the Mississippi-Red River confluent are brigs and transports. Steam frigate are too deep drafted to sail above, so how that managed to get up there is a mystery to me.

[Cardinal Ape]

Blockade Flotillas are an oddity. If the steam frigate is eliminated it maintains ocean restrictions. If the frigate is eliminated it's movement is no longer ocean restricted. If you move the steam frigate from it's first position to the end of the line up, the flotilla regains ocean restriction.

1-Steam Frigate
2-Blockade Ship
3-Blockade Ship
4-Blockade Ship
5-Blockade Ship
6-Blockade Ship
7-Blockade Ship
8-Frigate

Steam Frigate needs to move from position 1 to 7. Like so:

1-Blockade Ship
2-Blockade Ship
3-Blockade Ship
4-Blockade Ship
5-Blockade Ship
6-Blockade Ship
7-Steam Frigate
8-Frigate

[Cardinal Ape]

The patch link is no longer available.

I re-uploaded it. Sorry if I am breaking any rules here... It is Memorial weekend here in the US, I imagine some people are getting the inspiration to play some CW2.

http://we.tl/hCzGtyf5ci

[Captain_Orso]

Blockade Flotillas are an oddity. If the steam frigate is eliminated it maintains ocean restrictions. If the frigate is eliminated it's movement is no longer ocean restricted. If you move the steam frigate from it's first position to the end of the line up, the flotilla regains ocean restriction.

1-Steam Frigate
2-Blockade Ship
3-Blockade Ship
4-Blockade Ship
5-Blockade Ship
6-Blockade Ship
7-Blockade Ship
8-Frigate

Steam Frigate needs to move from position 1 to 7. Like so:

1-Blockade Ship
2-Blockade Ship
3-Blockade Ship
4-Blockade Ship
5-Blockade Ship
6-Blockade Ship
7-Steam Frigate
8-Frigate

ummmm....

Let's put our logic-hats on .

Steam Frigates have "Ocean restricted"



Sail Frigates have "Ocean restricted"



Blockade Ships have "All water"



If the Steam Frigate and Sail Frigate are removed from a Blockade Flotilla, then the Blockade Flotilla can sail in "All waters".

Why might that be?

Now, lets get really adventurous and extrapolate, if the Sail Frigate or the Steam Frigate --with "Ocean restricted"-- are replaced in our decimated Blockade Flotilla, will the Blockade Flotilla still be able to sail on shallow rivers?

[minipol]

Well logic dictates they shouldn't be replaced until they are again in waters the frigates could sail in. They wouldn't be replaced,
because the replacement ships wouldn't be able to get to the fleet if it's sailing in a river.

[Captain_Orso]

Yes, but I don't believe anybody was claiming that that had occurred; or did I miss something?

[minipol]

No, I was going by your last comment, and thinking/building further along those lines.

[Cardinal Ape]

Okay, Captain_Orso, let us put on our logic hats, and our reading glasses too. It is not the first time you have been confused with my meanings; I must suck at explaining things. Sorry. I will use more pictures in the future to help with clarity.

A blockade Flotilla is capable of breaking the rules:
[ATTACH]33627[/ATTACH]
As shown in the picture the flotilla can travel in shallow water even though it has a Steam Frigate with ocean restricted movement. Once the flotilla loses the normal frigate it gains all-water movement despite having a steam frigate. In Dr.Postman's game, this is how Athena got the blockade flotilla outside of Memphis.

On a hunch I moved the steam frigates location in the list of units from #1 to #7:
[ATTACH]33628[/ATTACH]

The blockade flotilla now has ocean restricted movement per normal rules:
[ATTACH]33629[/ATTACH]

Here is a testbed save for the curious.
[ATTACH]33630[/ATTACH]

[DrPostman]

A simple fix would be to remove the Blockade Flotilla shallow water
ability. I think it was kept because Farragut's West Gulf Blockading
Squadron was able to make it far enough to run past the Vicksburg
batteries in 1862 and attempt to demand that the city surrender.

[Captain_Orso]

The Blockade Flotilla, being a Unit, has the characteristics of all of the elements present in the unit. So if there is one element which is restricted from moving into shallow waters, then the entire unit should be restricted from doing that. The position of the element in the unit display should make no difference. So this is a bug.

Pocus, would you please have a look at this.

[Jagger2013]

I just tried to download the patch and it is no longer available for download. Going to new version or just temporarily unavailable?


ADDed...Just found the link in Cardinal Ape's post on page 3. It works. The link in the first message of the thread does not work.

[Pocus]

The Blockade Flotilla, being a Unit, has the characteristics of all of the elements present in the unit. So if there is one element which is restricted from moving into shallow waters, then the entire unit should be restricted from doing that. The position of the element in the unit display should make no difference. So this is a bug.

Pocus, would you please have a look at this.

This is actually a tough one as I believe it is because the code don't analyze all elements of an unit to determine move category, as that would be too slow otherwise.

[DrPostman]

This is actually a tough one as I believe it is because the code don't analyze all elements of an unit to determine move category, as that would be too slow otherwise.

I've never seen it happen before so it will probably be OK to just
ignore it. I doubt it will happen again.

[Cardinal Ape]

Your suggestion to make blockade ships ocean restricted should eliminated the problem. I can't think of any other units that might have the same issue.

[Pocus]

To explain further, baring a full analysis of all elements of a unit, it is not possible to be absolutely sure that the path taken is the best one or even a legit one. Lets take as an hypothesis an artillery element able to travel fast on road, slowly in plain or marsh and not at all in mountains. A tank element, that can travel fast in plain and road, not at all in swamps and slowly in mountains, a light infantry that travels fast everywhere (more or less minor variations). Now you see that calculating the best path for this unit is tricky, and it theory it would not be able to travel at all in swamps or mountains. But the code would probably allows you that, albeit at the slowest speed possible.