Generals

[darioVMannstein]

Hey guys,

I am beginner so I do apologize for my non stop questions
Did they change the number of CP the General Commanders provide ? Because it seems like a 3 Star General provides 13 CP. Wasnt it like 12 because I ve watched a bit older vid where it was.
Now it seems like the max Number of CP is by 17 reached but I think it was 16 or so.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I appreciate that


Edit: I am playing the Tutorial because I wanted to try some things out and learn before I play the real camp. It seems like Mcdowell provides me 13 CP as Army but Banks only 12 and Patterson (10CP as Army and 11 as Corps well I know he has -1mali) but still really weird to me.

[grimjaw]

Without modifiers from abilities and such, 3-star generals should provide 12 CP.

[darioVMannstein]

Without modifiers from abilities and such, 3-star generals should provide 12 CP.

Ok thanks , how much does a 2 Star general provide ? 8 ?

[LCcmdr]

Over 50 hours of newbie play and I hadn't even thought to ask about 1 or 2 star stats. I assumed any general (1,2,3) would provide upto 12 CP, based upon position of brigade, division, Corp, or Army status--the latter two being the best.

Is this close?

[darioVMannstein]

Over 50 hours of newbie play and I hadn't even thought to ask about 1 or 2 star stats. I assumed any general (1,2,3) would provide upto 12 CP, based upon position of brigade, division, Corp, or Army status--the latter two being the best.

Is this close?

No, 1 star provides 4 CP.

2 Star 8 I think.

and 3 12 CP. It seems like sometimes you get some penalties depending on the leader attributes which I think the developer wanted to make it more realistic and historical.


btw, another noob question. How many points of bonus gaining does the units in the Stack of an commander ? I d like to keep all my units at the beginning of war by good Commander to train them.


Edit: Is there any kind of keyboard combination wher eI can directly see my units or click through the next units avaible ? I always have to go from city to city and that takes too long. It must be probably some better option.

[grimjaw]

The numbers darioVMannstien listed are correct: 4/8/12 CP for 1/2/3 star generals, respectively. As dario also stated, additional bonus/malus to CP can come from "abilities" (not the most appropriate name when it comes to malus, but whatever). I'm not privy to the reasoning behind the design decision to assign CP, but the end result is the ability or lack thereof to command and coordinate units. It represents command authority granted by rank. A 1-star has enough CP to effectively command many brigades, but not enough to independently command a division. 2-stars are granted authority to command divisions independently (i.e. not part of an army), or corps under the command of a 3-star. 3-stars can do it all. This is the way the engine works. As you probably know, it's not a mirror of the ranking system used by the factions involved in the ACW. History was made to fit the engine rather than reworking the engine to fit history.

darioVMannstein, there is a set of keyboard shortcuts to cycle through units, but I don't use them and don't recall it. It is in the manual, however. You can also use the ledger which will let you do some sorting. I find it much more useful.

[ATTACH]36768[/ATTACH]

It's not available from the in-game menus, but the CP values along with several others can be modified. I do not recommend this unless you make backups first. They are in the gamelogic.opt file, under the "settings" directory. The relevant section looks like this:

Code: Select all

// ********************************************************
// ***** COMMAND AND LEADERS *****
// ********************************************************

ldrCommandMaximaRank1      = 4      // Nb of CP provided by a rank 1 leader
ldrCommandMaximaRank2      = 8      // Nb of CP provided by a rank 2 leader
ldrCommandMaximaRank3      = 12      // Nb of CP provided by a rank 3 leader
ldrCommandCap            = 16      // base CP cap to a stack
ldrGHQCommandModifier      = -2      // The Army stack commander provides his strat rating + this value as a bonus (or malus) to subordinate corps
ldrCommandGHQBonusCoSLvl   = 4      // What is the strat rating needed by the chief of staff to gives a bonus
ldrCommandGHQBonusCoSVa    = 1      // what is the value of such bonus
ldrCommandCostCombiUnit      = 4      // What is the CP cost of a combined unit
ldrMaxStackCmdPenalty      = 35      // max command penalty for stacks (means a 100-x efficiency)
ldrOutOfChainCmdCoeff      = 50      // coefficient to CP accrued if not in the chain of command, in %
ldrGHQStackMinRange       = 3       // Minimum GHQ (Army) range
ldrGHQStackCoeffRange       = 100       // Strat Value coefficient to get GHQ (Army) range (100% = 100% of strat rating)
ldrGHQStackBonusRange       = 0       // Strat Value bonus to get GHQ (Army) range (after ldrGHQStackCoeffRange_ is applied)
ldrGHQStackActnMinRange    = 3       // Action range (range where the GHQ give a bonus): Minimum GHQ (Army) range
ldrGHQStackActnCoeffRange    = 100       // Action range (range where the GHQ give a bonus): Strat Value coefficient to get GHQ (Army) range (100% = 100% of strat rating)
ldrGHQStackActnBonusRange    = 0       // Action range (range where the GHQ give a bonus): Range bonus (after ldrGHQStackCoeffRange_ is applied)
fixHARuleChanceMC       = 50       // Hardened Activation rule: Chance in per cent of being not fixed in case of 100% MC (linear scaled in case of less MC)
fixHARuleChancePartSupply    = 10       // Hardened Activation rule: Chance in per cent of being not fixed in case of Partial Supply
fixHARuleChanceNoSupply    = 20       // Hardened Activation rule: Chance in per cent of being not fixed in case of No Supply
ldrGHQBonusMaxIter      = 4      // Max number of iterations to pass a bonus to a subordinate
ldrGHQBonusRollBaseStrat    = 0      // Base modifier to the Army Commander Strat rating to pass one pt of bonus to a subordinate
ldrGHQBonusRollModStrat    = -2      // Additional Modifier added for each iteration beyond the first (cumulative, ie iteration 3 is a Roll at -4 under the Strat Rating)
ldrGHQBonusRollBaseOff       = 2      // Base modifier to the Army Commander Offensive rating to pass one pt of bonus to a subordinate
ldrGHQBonusRollModOff       = -2      // Additional Modifier added for each iteration beyond the first (cumulative, ie iteration 3 gives -2 to Off here)
ldrGHQBonusRollBaseDef       = 2      // Base modifier to the Army Commander Defensiverating to pass one pt of bonus to a subordinate
ldrGHQBonusRollModDef       = -2      // Additional Modifier added for each iteration beyond the first (cumulative, ie iteration 3 gives -2 to Def here)

ldrDeathBySickness       = 0      //  Added 111227: if = 1, leaders can die from sickness, old age, or practices better not discussed here.
cmdCoopTagForLeader = 1 // allows units to be combined more easily

[ArmChairGeneral]

4,8 and 12, but only half that if you are outside of the command structure of an Army. Armies and Corps both max out at 16, but signal corps and balloons, special abilities and the strategic rating of the Army commander can move this up (the highest I have ever gotten was 24 or 25). One stars commanding a stack are automatically outside of the command structure so only provide two each; therefore a division operating independently of a Corps or Army will require 2 one stars to be fully commanded.

The E and R keys cycle through land stacks that are unlocked and do not have orders. The T and Y keys do the same for naval stacks. Q and W cycle through locked stacks, but there is no reason to do so. Hitting the spacebar will give them sentry orders for the turn (so they don't keep shwing up when you hit E or R) and S will give them permanent Sentry orders.

[darioVMannstein]

Wow guys two awesome posts. Thanks alot!

25 CP ? Thats sick man haha! I will see if I can train my Generals that high.

[ArmChairGeneral]

To get 24 I have TJ in command of a Corps under Lee, with an HQ, a Balloon, and an ADC. Thats 16 +4 (from Lee) +2 (from the HQ)+1 (balloon) +1 (ADC) and that is 24. Guess you probably couldn't get 25 unless Lee or Grant got upgraded through experience to a 7 Strat (IIRC they have 6's) since those are all the ways I know to increase Command Points. The extra CP wouldn't matter though, you would still have the same number of Divisions (6!). You can do the same with a Corps under Grant.

[Captain_Orso]

A leader with Good Army Admin ability (I think) which gives +1 CP, if the leader gains EL (experience level - the stars in the element detail window) the ability will increase, so depending the the leader's EL he can gain +2 or more CP's.

[darioVMannstein]

To get 24 I have TJ in command of a Corps under Lee, with an HQ, a Balloon, and an ADC. Thats 16 +4 (from Lee) +2 (from the HQ)+1 (balloon) +1 (ADC) and that is 24. Guess you probably couldn't get 25 unless Lee or Grant got upgraded through experience to a 7 Strat (IIRC they have 6's) since those are all the ways I know to increase Command Points. The extra CP wouldn't matter though, you would still have the same number of Divisions (6!). You can do the same with a Corps under Grant.

Alright sounds good.

Just one noob question of me again mate, Whats TJ ? HQ is the Army you form, right ?
In TEAW you GHQ (Armygroup) - Army - corps - divisions - regiments as hierarchy. Not exactly sure how its in CV2 but it seems like we only have the Army and our Divisions but I am still in April 1861 didnt play more then 1 Turn so that prolly gonna change.

[ArmChairGeneral]

TJ = Thomas Jackson, one of the South's best generals (although his personal quality does not affect the CPs).

HQ is the Headquarters unit you can build. Though it is called an HQ, it does not represent an Army, it does not have to be in an Army to give its benefits, and an Army does not have to have one to function as an Army. It gives +2 CPs to the stack, acts as a Hospital (increasing Cohesion recovery) and gives every element in its stack extra XPs per turn. You want to put them in your largest frontline stacks. I haven't played TEAW, but from what I understand CW2 does not have the equivalent of a GHQ but the command structure is what you wrote. In CW2 the HQ unit is not related to the command structure other than its CP bonus.

If you are still in early turns you may not have one in your build pool yet.

[darioVMannstein]

TJ = Thomas Jackson, one of the South's best generals (although his personal quality does not affect the CPs).

HQ is the Headquarters unit you can build. Though it is called an HQ, it does not represent an Army, it does not have to be in an Army to give its benefits, and an Army does not have to have one to function as an Army. It gives +2 CPs to the stack, acts as a Hospital (increasing Cohesion recovery) and gives every element in its stack extra XPs per turn. You want to put them in your largest frontline stacks. I haven't played TEAW, but from what I understand CW2 does not have the equivalent of a GHQ but the command structure is what you wrote. In CW2 the HQ unit is not related to the command structure other than its CP bonus.

If you are still in early turns you may not have one in your build pool yet.

Ok thanks that was very understandable

[Cromagnonman]

I'm not convinced (yet) that the XP thing really works. I've tried monitoring stacks containing HQ (or rufus King) and they don't seem to be gaining anything per turn. It's possible that they have to be stationary, but also they may only add one XP to the whole stack (meaning to one element in the stack)

[Gray Fox]

The stack definitely has to be stationary.

[Rod Smart]

Edit: Is there any kind of keyboard combination wher eI can directly see my units or click through the next units avaible ? I always have to go from city to city and that takes too long. It must be probably some better option.

This is probably the hardest part of the game. There's so much going on, its easy to forget about that raiding party in Oklahoma, that unit you just created in Chicago, and to check your available F12 decision cards.

Get yourself into a habit, and keep doing that.

I'll go through all my menus first, F2 through F12.
If I haven't played in a while, I'll go through every single message, and make my moves off of that.
If I've played three of four turns in a row, I'll simply go left to right- California to Missouri to Kentucky to Virginia.
The last thing I'll do is recruit. I want to spend my money on decisions first, then stopgap recruiting I'll notice while making moves, and then whatever I have left to buy the brigades for my next division/corp/army.

[Rod Smart]

I'm not convinced (yet) that the XP thing really works. I've tried monitoring stacks containing HQ (or rufus King) and they don't seem to be gaining anything per turn. It's possible that they have to be stationary, but also they may only add one XP to the whole stack (meaning to one element in the stack)

You don't get an XP star for that bonus. You get one XP point.
Varies by unit type, but its usually something like 10 XP for first star, 15 for second, 30 for third, 50 for the little ribbon thing, 100 for the next, etc etc.

Confused me the first time too. I thought I'd be getting one star for every move that stack stayed there training.



And Gray Fox is right. Stack must be stationary. Put Rufus King in Washington, Braxton Bragg in NO with militia, your extra HQ unit in the place you recruit, etc etc.

[darioVMannstein]

This is probably the hardest part of the game. There's so much going on, its easy to forget about that raiding party in Oklahoma, that unit you just created in Chicago, and to check your available F12 decision cards.

Get yourself into a habit, and keep doing that.

I'll go through all my menus first, F2 through F12.
If I haven't played in a while, I'll go through every single message, and make my moves off of that.
If I've played three of four turns in a row, I'll simply go left to right- California to Missouri to Kentucky to Virginia.
The last thing I'll do is recruit. I want to spend my money on decisions first, then stopgap recruiting I'll notice while making moves, and then whatever I have left to buy the brigades for my next division/corp/army.

Thanks for the advice mate, I really love that game- AGEOD itselfs seems to struck right into my taste. I have a long way to do before I can call myself a veteran or expert of the game.
I am just not sure which kind of State I am gonna choose. I am the guy who likes to play the underdog alot but CSA seems to be very tough for beginner of the game. So I might skip on that first.


Edit: F12 makes always screenshot in my games, how can I turn it off ?

[ArmChairGeneral]

Once you get the hang of things the CSA is jsut as easy as the Union, but the games play out differently. As the Union you slow build until you can get your NM up and some generals who will be active for two turns in a row. As the CSA you need to be active right away, the advantages you have disappear with time. Until you get some experience neither side is going to be easy and it will seem like things are happening for mysterious reasons beyond your control. This will eventually clear up, but until then against the AI neither side is really that much more difficult than the other. I might recommend the CSA just because there is more you can do early and don't have to slog through a dozen hours of playing time before you get to do anything interesting.

As I always do (I'm a bit of a broken record on this) I recommend the 1862 West Scenario for beginning players because it skips the build up and gets straight into the action so you can start learning how to win battles, but is still plenty long so that you get a feel for how the Grand Campaigns will play out. Bull Run and Sibley are not really representative of the rest of the game.

[ArmChairGeneral]

HQ's (and Generals with the Training Master trait) definitely grant one XP to each element for every turn the stack is not moving. This is on top of the 50% chance the element already has to gain an XP, so many elements will gain 2 XP in a turn. Conscripts and conscript cavalry only need 5 XP to get their first star at which point they automatically have a chance to upgrade to the next element type (e.g. Conscript->Regular) each turn. The largest armies are usually fairly static for long periods, so an HQ unit in them does a lot for overall troop quality, but only over time, so get those HQs up and running early. When an element gets stars it gets increases in stats. Cav in particular get a LOT more useful as scouts when they get some experience, with better Detection Hide and Evasion numbers.

It will take a long time to upgrade Volunteers to Regulars via the experience system. Artillery takes even longer, so much that they pretty much only get stars from battles. It takes a medium amount of time to upgrade conscripts to regulars, but they get boosts in stats much earlier than they upgrade, and their Line Infantry friends get boosts from stars relatively quickly too, though they are at the end of their upgrade path. Putting HQ in the largest stacks gives you a lot of bang-for-the-buck: since you needed to have bought a signal corps and hospital anyway, you also get XP effect for the same price.

[darioVMannstein]

Thanks man this is very helpful stuff you wrote. I am sure it will help not only me, also alot of other so thumps up for that
Its cool to learn these things right before I am gonna start my campaign. I think I will go with the South as you told me.

[Cromagnonman]

After some more testing, I agree about the training master, with one caveat. It does not seem to add XP to officers; it did work for all the infantry and artillery that I checked in the stack, but I did not check any other support units

[ArmChairGeneral]

Cromagnonman,
Yeah, the only way generals gain experience is through participating in (winning) battles.

[Rod Smart]

Cromagnonman,
Yeah, the only way generals gain experience is through participating in (winning) battles.

They also get experience if they do well in a losing battle.
I'm pretty sure Army commanders also get experience in battles their subordinate corps are in, even if they didn't fight. I've had Freemont get stars for doing nothing in Cairo, while McPherson and Thomas busted forts down the Mississippi.

[Cardinal Ape]

Edit: Is there any kind of keyboard combination wher eI can directly see my units or click through the next units avaible ? I always have to go from city to city and that takes too long. It must be probably some better option.

If you have a 5 button mouse you can program the side keys to suit this game. I have my side mouse buttons set to 'next land unit' and 'sentry until next turn.' I can longer play ageod games without it, too convenient.

[ArmChairGeneral]

Rod,
Yes, agree with both points. I put winning in parentheses because it is mostly the case that you need to win the battles. If the Army is in command range, its leader counts as the overall commander for any battle their corps participate in (their picture is at the top of the battle report even if they are not physically present) and thus gain XP.

Actually, since I am not usually concerned with leader XP advancement but with seniority advancement to get promotions, I am not 100% sure that you do not gain leader XP in a losing battle since I haven't paid it enough attention. To gain seniority you need to win battles, although that is based on relative hits not who "wins" (i.e. does not withdraw from) the battle as far as I can tell.

[grimjaw]

It will take a long time to upgrade Volunteers to Regulars via the experience system. Artillery takes even longer, so much that they pretty much only get stars from battles. It takes a medium amount of time to upgrade conscripts to regulars, but they get boosts in stats much earlier than they upgrade, and their Line Infantry friends get boosts from stars relatively quickly too, though they are at the end of their upgrade path.

ArmChairGeneral makes good points. It's unfortunate for the CSA that they have so few leaders with the ability to upgrade militia/volunteers -> conscripts -> line. Converting militia -> conscripts results in a much larger increase in performance compared to conscripts -> line (see table below). On the Union side of things it's basically gaming the system, but it works great if you want to crush the rebellion beneath the weight of numbers.

Create two militia units. Combine the two one-element militia units into one two-element unit. The new unit will still only require one command point, works great for garrisons if nothing else. This combination will add one militia unit-to-build back to the respective militia forcepool. Put the new two-element militia unit into a stationary stack with McClellan, Halleck or Sigel. Keep these leaders in separate stacks otherwise you waste the ability. This will convert both units to at least conscript level and restore yet another militia unit to the forcepool. Conscripts have a quicker progression rate than other upgrade-able infantry elements, so rather than upgrade the two-conscript element unit to line, repeat the process with a new two-element militia unit. As long as you have resources you can repeat this. This takes some time but it is dirt cheap, since the upgrade process otherwise has no other resource costs. Between the three leaders listed, you can convert up to six militia/turn. Within a month you can have twelve primed and ready line elements, enough for a division, for half the money and 70% of the conscripts. It only takes 15 days to raise a militia unit versus 30 days for conscripts, but I think all the Union conscript elements are combined in brigades with other elements that take longer than 30 days to build.

Code: Select all

Name      OffFire   DefFire   Init   TQ   Assault   Hits   Coh   DmgDone   CohDone   AsltDmg   AsltCoh   MvRatio   CohMove   Hide   Prog   Patrol   SupHitPen
Infantry   10   16   9   9   10   20   80   2   12   2   15   100   50   2   10   5   25
Conscript   9   15   7   7   8   20   65   2   10   2   12   100   75   1   5   4   25
Volunteer   9   14   6   6   6   15   60   2   8   1   5   100   50   1   15   4   30
Militia    9   12   6   5   6   15   60   1   7   1   5   90   10   1   10   4   30

[Gray Fox]

It may be the case when the militia is upgraded that the cost delta is indeed still paid. I haven't been able to discount this in testing. Also, the upgraded unit is labelled line infantry, although the stats are less than a line infantry but more than a conscript. Curiously, African-American militia upgrade to caucasian line infantry. A point I've already mentioned elsewhere.

In addition, you can upgrade conscript cavalry or mounted infantry to the early cavalry unit.

[grimjaw]

It may be the case when the militia is upgraded that the cost delta is indeed still paid.

Gray, I wondered about that. I seem to recall that militia that upgrade to conscript or directly to line infantry have a lower health right after the upgrade. I will have to test to make sure, but it would make some sense since they gain 5 hits in the upgrade. What I don't know is if replacement chits are used to make up the difference for those upgraded elements.