Naval Engineers

[ohms_law]

According to the tooltip, Naval Engineers provide bonuses to the units ... that are part of it's stack?
[ATTACH]30834[/ATTACH]

I'm confused, the tooltip doesn't really make sense. I tried to stack the Naval Engineers in Norfolk with the CSS Virginia, but I get a message about there not being enough transport capacity. Do naval engineers need to be in the stack with ships being built or repaired, or is it good enough that they're in the port? Are they actually useful at all?

[pgr]

My feeling is that it is enough that the ships be in the same port.

[ohms_law]

Me too (I'm fairly certain that's the way it was in AACW), but I'd like to know.

[Merlin]

I always put them in the same stack, though I don't know if that's necessary. I also ship them to newly acquired ports, since sending your blockade forces to Philly every time they need a refit quickly becomes a drag.

[le Anders]

I always put them in the same stack,

For that, you need a transport.

[Merlin]

Operational endurance being a personal premium, all my naval stacks have at least one transport.

[Captain_Orso]

The Naval Engineers should be inside harbor/city location and will provide their ability bonus when they are. There's no reason to put then anywhere else.

It might work just as will with them being anywhere in the same region--whether on a fleet or even in the field--, but logically they should be in the harbor.

[ohms_law]

*blink*

how would you put them inside the harbor?

[Merlin]

Inside the city structure. That where I keep them, and shift them over to a building or refitting naval stack, for whatever good it does.

[ohms_law]

Does it do any good? Do you notice the time changing in the tooltip, or anything?

[Merlin]

It's kind of random anyway, so I've never been able to say with certainty. It is what the engineer tooltip says, and it takes two clicks per stack, so why not just in case?

[ohms_law]

The main reason that I'm asking about it is because the engineer in Norfolk is locked. If you're supposed to put him in the stack with your ships, then he's rather useless.

[Merlin]

It's more a habit from the depths of primordial time when I had just bought the game, so last February. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. No one knows.

[Captain_Orso]

Here's something I wrote in the beta forums a long time ago, nearly verbatim:

Here's the plan:

1. Put the Naval Engineers in the town/city structure.
2. Put the boats/ships in the harbor structure, which is actually the town/city structure.

That's it. That's the plan Thank you, thank you ...







Whaaaat? You want more?

Okay, you repair damage equal to 3% of a ship's total number hit points per harbor level per turn per ship/boat.

For ease of understanding, let's say you have a ship with 100 hit points, like the KM Bismark . The Bismark has just been hit by torpedoes from the SwordFish torpedo bombers of the Arc Royal and has taken 20 hit points of damage, and then sails into a level 5 harbor in the bosom of France; Brest .

..... what have you got against Brests?!?!

3% of the Bismark's total hit points is 3 hit points. The breast size.. I mean the harbor size *ahem*pulls-on-collar* is 5, so it will repair 3 x 5 = 15 hit points of damage per turn.

If the harbor also has a Naval Engineer, which is also currently sober , add 10% to the speed of repair; 3 x 5 x 1.1 = 16.5 FRD = 16.

That's it... except for the mademoiselles

[Prussia]

Hi all:

Everytime I move the Naval Engineer in Norfolk or attempt to move him into a stack, one of these always happens: won't allow or permit the move; occasionally it will stick in the new stack, but upon next turn startup he is again solo in Norfolk; or it moves in but as soon as I back out, he is back in original position. No rhyme or reason or pattern that I can discern. Gave up trying.

Thanks all.

[Captain_Orso]

Is this one of those puzzle question? Oh, boy!

Either you are playing the Union and the stack you are putting the Navel Engineers in is a naval stack, in which case the engineers say, "hey, I only work normal working hours and don't need to spend the night on these ships", so they return to their barracks while you're not looking--during turn execution. Works the same with all units BTW.

Or you are playing the Confederates, in which case the Navel Engineers are a locked unit in Norfolk and cannot leave the region. You should be able to stack them with other units, which are not plotted to move. But to be of use they should be in the city, where they belong. If you put them into a stack and try to move the stack... I'm not sure exactly if the engine will cancel your movement plot, or just leave the stack plotted to move and then never move it, because the locked unit prevents them from moving out of the region.

I've never seen Naval Engineers, nor any other locked units, jump out of a non-moving stack, other than a naval stack, as I stated.

What do I win?

[DrPostman]

What do I win?

[video=youtube;U4lFGG9lBzI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4lFGG9lBzI[/video]

[Captain_Orso]

Hey!




Free internet for everybody!!!

[grimjaw]

Sorry to revive a zombie-like thread, but I think the naval engineers are broken or their function is coded somewhere I can't see. In ACW2, their ability is listed as $abiNavEngineer. $abiNavEngineer is further defined this way:

Code: Select all

UID = 106
Name = $abi_nam_NavEngineer
Alias = abiNavEngineer
Kind = $abiFlavor
Text = $abi_txt_NavEngineer
ImageID = abi_CinC_Anchor.png
Color = $colAbi_Tan
Appliance = Unit
Family = 0
Level = 1

When I looked up $abiFlavor, all it says this: used to create an icon in a unit to highlight inherent design data [ex. MoveRatio = 0 is 'Static']

I can't find any other definition. The only other attributes the naval engineers have are *CanBuildRail*|*CanDestroyRail*.

So I can't see any use for them, as currently implemented, other than using up money, war supplies and conscripts. Can anyone demonstrate that I'm wrong with an in-game example or point to a more detailed definition of the ability?

[FightingBuckeye]

I'm not sure about the under the hood stuff, but they definitely work. Try building two identical ships in a port with and then in a port without a naval engineer and look at the difference in completion time. Or just lay down a ship in a port with said engineer and check the completion time against what the unit should take. You can always cancel the order once you've seen the comparison. It should cut down something like 17% or so of the construction time.

I always try to build my ships in ports with engineers and if possible send them back to a port with a naval engineer for any needed repairs. Depending on your strategy but if you're trying to maintain a larger river fleet, it sometimes might be worth a naval engineer as the CSA along the Mississippi to keep your ships in good repair and cut down on duration of new construction.

[Captain_Orso]

Sorry to revive a zombie-like thread, but I think the naval engineers are broken or their function is coded somewhere I can't see. In ACW2, their ability is listed as $abiNavEngineer. $abiNavEngineer is further defined this way:

Code: Select all

UID = 106
Name = $abi_nam_NavEngineer
Alias = abiNavEngineer
Kind = $abiFlavor
Text = $abi_txt_NavEngineer
ImageID = abi_CinC_Anchor.png
Color = $colAbi_Tan
Appliance = Unit
Family = 0
Level = 1

When I looked up $abiFlavor, all it says this: used to create an icon in a unit to highlight inherent design data [ex. MoveRatio = 0 is 'Static']

I can't find any other definition. The only other attributes the naval engineers have are *CanBuildRail*|*CanDestroyRail*.

So I can't see any use for them, as currently implemented, other than using up money, war supplies and conscripts. Can anyone demonstrate that I'm wrong with an in-game example or point to a more detailed definition of the ability?

The short answer is that the ability is hard-coded into the engine as there are no parameters in the abilities database file. It increases repairs by 3% per turn, per forum entries and testing I've done myself. How much it speeds up build times I don't know, because I've never read it nor tested it.

If you look at a Naval Engineer unit definition file (126CSANaval Engineers.uni) you see that it uses the model mdl_CSA_Nvg: (ModelType0 = $mdl_CSA_Nvg|1), which is in the model definition file (115CSANaval Engineers.mdl) (Alias = mdl_CSA_Nvg). This model uses the model template (mdl_CMN_Nvg) (TemplateUID = $mdl_CMN_Nvg) found in model file (40CMNNaval Engineers.mdl) (Alias = mdl_CMN_Nvg). Here you find the "abilities" of the model (Ability0 = $abiNavEngineer), of which there is only 1. Looking into the current abilities database file I find that there are no parameters for this ability other than names, colors and text references. Ergo, because I know that the ability works (at least as far as repairs go--because I did some tests on it many moons ago) the parameters are hard-coded and I can't tell you any more about the ability than I already have.