I'm considering buying this. I bought all three of the prior generation of Civil War games (Ageod's, Forge of Freedom, and Gary Grigsby's) but never played AGEOD's for more than a few turns.
Compared to the other two, AGEOD's is very, very daunting. I understand the mechanics through the tutorials, but I don't understand what to do exactly. I was hoping there might be a walkthrough somewhere explaining how to play the first bunch of turns in 1861 or even 1862.
I can't quite figure out just everything I should be doing each turn to move toward having effective armies in 1862. I've tried starting in 1862 in Civil War 1 and untangling the weird commands set up by the AI is just too overwhelming.
Is a walkthrough available for Civil War 2 or some kind of in-depth strategy guide? I remember Gary Grigsby's game became a lot more fun when I saw someone explain all the little things you needed to do on the first turn to start building up the Union for the long war.
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ArmChairGeneral
- AGEod Grognard
- Posts: 997
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:00 am
- Location: Austin, TX, USA
I am right there with you. I did exactly the same thing buying the three games to try to find a great strategic level American Civil War game. I had the great good fortune to connect with a pbem opponent for each of the three games. With AGEOD's game, I had an opponent with patience enough to work me through my misunderstandings.
There is an excellent walkthrough. CharlesonMission has put together a great video series to explain the key ideas.
http://ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?32676-Video-Tutorials-and-Let-s-Play!
The new CW2 game is my dream game of the American Civil War, truly.
There is an excellent walkthrough. CharlesonMission has put together a great video series to explain the key ideas.
http://ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?32676-Video-Tutorials-and-Let-s-Play!
The new CW2 game is my dream game of the American Civil War, truly.
Is there a CW2 wiki? The AACW wiki is here: http://www.ageod.net/aacwwiki/Main_Page but doesn't allow new account creation. I think there are a lot of people (myself included) who'd be happy to add to it if accounts were given us.
Well, I can't figure out the first game at all so I'm not going throw money away on the second. Without a walkthrough of some sort to talk about how to organize Union forces starting in either 1861 or 1862, what to build and why, how to get your transports ready for a Peninsular Campaign, etc., this game is just too daunting. It's not enough to watch tutorials and learn how the game works (and those tutorials aren't great for the first game; tons of generals can't form divisions in an 1862 startup and there's no discernible reason why). You need to know all the things to do on a given turn. Grigsby and Forge of Freedom are just better in this respect, although both suffer from serious problems (terrible AI in both and Grigsby has no real unit organization).
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ArmChairGeneral
- AGEod Grognard
- Posts: 997
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:00 am
- Location: Austin, TX, USA
Well, there is too much to do and too many turns to do EVERY turn in a GameFaqs style walkthrough. Just take a look at the AARs, they take up thousands of words and most of them don't even finish their games! (Definitely read the AARs and the forums though, that is how I learned to play AACW and CW2. Wars in America helped me a lot, too, it was faster to learn and once I was good at that game, both AACW and CW2 were obvious.)
That being said, I am working on something along the lines of what you are asking for, although for the CSA, so stay tuned. This game is complex and takes a commitment of time to learn it (this is the game's weakest point in terms of broad commercial appeal IMO), but the best thing to do is just play! The Grand Campaigns are a little over the top in terms of complexity, but once you get the hang of things, it all looks a lot simpler, trust me. Just assume you are going to lose the first couple of games and start pushing stuff around the map and see what happens.
That being said, I am working on something along the lines of what you are asking for, although for the CSA, so stay tuned. This game is complex and takes a commitment of time to learn it (this is the game's weakest point in terms of broad commercial appeal IMO), but the best thing to do is just play! The Grand Campaigns are a little over the top in terms of complexity, but once you get the hang of things, it all looks a lot simpler, trust me. Just assume you are going to lose the first couple of games and start pushing stuff around the map and see what happens.
It wouldn't have to be a full breakdown of an entire game. Honestly, it could just be the first few months of the 1861 or 1862 scenario.
I'm surprised so many people rely on PBEM and actually playing against other people to learn basic strategy (like how many replacements you need v. new units or how to form divisions and how to organize starting forces). One very good walkthrough against the AI, covering maybe 10 turns total, would seriously lower the learning curve on this game and make it more accessible.
I've been reading a lot of reviews and AARs. Did they ever rebalance the game so that the Union is able to achieve its historical numerical superiority at the proper pace. The Armchair General AAR and the very entertaining one between new players here makes it pretty clear that the CSA was overpowered in the initial releases vis a vis the Union (maintaining close to numerical parity well into 1862, confirming McClellan's paranoid delusions as fact).
I'm surprised so many people rely on PBEM and actually playing against other people to learn basic strategy (like how many replacements you need v. new units or how to form divisions and how to organize starting forces). One very good walkthrough against the AI, covering maybe 10 turns total, would seriously lower the learning curve on this game and make it more accessible.
I've been reading a lot of reviews and AARs. Did they ever rebalance the game so that the Union is able to achieve its historical numerical superiority at the proper pace. The Armchair General AAR and the very entertaining one between new players here makes it pretty clear that the CSA was overpowered in the initial releases vis a vis the Union (maintaining close to numerical parity well into 1862, confirming McClellan's paranoid delusions as fact).
What makes this a great game to own and play is its depth. Some players want a better historical understanding. Some want to undo the historical mistakes and see what happens. Others just like the chance to play a complex game that challenges them to be innovative. That's why no one can give you a walk-through. I can tell you how I play, but everyone (and I do mean everyone) will tell you that what I do is some kind of a crime against humanity. For instance, the AI resolves battles, so one player thinks that his Divisions would do better if they had more artillery. I'm sure that artillery belongs loose in the stack. No one knows definitively. I don't play with artillery in my Divisions because I saw it in a tutorial walk-through. It's just something I figured out by playing. As to some of your concerns:
Generals have a strategic rating that gives them a random chance to be pre-occupied each turn and thus not "active". This is a reflection of the difficulty of conducting a war with unskilled leaders, untrained soldiers and over huge distances. Not every General is available every turn to command your units well. Once you can set up your Divisions you can attach them to Corps and Armies by "drag and drop" onto the higher unit commander's stack.
You'll want to have replacements so that your Divisions don't gradually fade away due to attrition from movement and combat. You can look at one screen and know what to do about that.
Amphibious assaults are a little more tricky. You have to assemble a transport stack of ships, an assault stack of ground units, then merge the two (drag and drop) and click the icon for amphibious assault onto the destination. It took me a few minutes the first time, but then I had it nailed.
The Union player and the CSA player get to choose their production. Some add industry so that they get better long-term numbers than someone who just goes for the throat right now. The Union has a historical production advantage at the start, then the human player gets a say.
I don't think that any of these concerns you posted are deal breakers.
Generals have a strategic rating that gives them a random chance to be pre-occupied each turn and thus not "active". This is a reflection of the difficulty of conducting a war with unskilled leaders, untrained soldiers and over huge distances. Not every General is available every turn to command your units well. Once you can set up your Divisions you can attach them to Corps and Armies by "drag and drop" onto the higher unit commander's stack.
You'll want to have replacements so that your Divisions don't gradually fade away due to attrition from movement and combat. You can look at one screen and know what to do about that.
Amphibious assaults are a little more tricky. You have to assemble a transport stack of ships, an assault stack of ground units, then merge the two (drag and drop) and click the icon for amphibious assault onto the destination. It took me a few minutes the first time, but then I had it nailed.
The Union player and the CSA player get to choose their production. Some add industry so that they get better long-term numbers than someone who just goes for the throat right now. The Union has a historical production advantage at the start, then the human player gets a say.
I don't think that any of these concerns you posted are deal breakers.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!
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Chicharito19
- Conscript
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:33 pm
jscott991 wrote:Without a walkthrough of some sort to talk about how to organize Union forces starting in either 1861 or 1862, what to build and why, how to get your transports ready for a Peninsular Campaign, etc., this game is just too daunting. It's not enough to watch tutorials and learn how the game works (and those tutorials aren't great for the first game)
Others have already wrote it : it is difficult to give you a detailed list of things to do because the game is very open (this is what make it so interesting). Personnally I think the main Union tasks at the beginning are :
Missouri :
If you go for an offensive strategy on this theater of war, try to capture Rolla and Sprinfield as quickly as possible before the CSA can destroy the depot and/or concentrates troops in Springfield. Then build your force for a later campaign toward Arkansas. If you stay in defense, build a force to keep Saint-Louis.
Kentucky :
Build your force (land and navy) to be ready when this State will choose its side. You have also to decide if you want to make a preventive invasion of this State.
East :
- Try to capture Manassas if the CSA made a mistake (to avoid the loss of 10 NM) but this is not as much critical as it was in the previous version of the game.
- Don't let the CSA be allowed to entrench along the Potomac : try to keep at least Harper's Ferry and Alexandria.
- Protect Washington DC
- Build troops to be able to create functional divisions in October 61 (e.g. have one sharpshooter per division as well as cavalry and artillery [players do not all agree on the best way to build a division but as a rule of thumb I would say : 1 sharpshooter, 10 infantry, 2 cav, 4 artillery])
- Start to organize your blockade fleets.
- Later in the game you'll have to build a force for landings along the southern coast : just build divisions (maybe with a sailor unit in each of them) + supply wagons and prepare a fleet (transport + fighting ships).
- Move leaders with special abilities at the right place (e.g. some will increase recruitment if in a big city, others will train your conscripts, ...)
tons of generals can't form divisions in an 1862 startup and there's no discernible reason why
You can't form a division with an inactive leader.
You need to know all the things to do on a given turn
There are checklists here. It was done for AACW (first version of the game) but it might give you some hints.
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Captain_Orso
- Posts: 5766
- Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:02 pm
- Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Because the game is more-or-less a sandbox game there is no way to do a walk-through. To play the game well you will have to understand how it works. Once you have mastered that you can plan your strategy accordingly, but you will always have to be prepared to react to what is happening in the game.
I'll try to give you a rundown on the most important concepts of the game as simply and quickly as possible.
-- All your units need supply. Without supply they will fight poorly and start to lose cohesion and take "hits" representing men deserting or becoming sick. Supply moves automatically from sources --where it is being produced, in large cities generally-- to where it is needed.
Supply is "pulled" by units needing it --in general all of them all the time--, by forts and by depots. The larger the force and the higher the depot level, the greater the pull. Pull will work only over a range of 5 regions at the very most. The rule of thumb is to have a depot every 3 regions along your line of advance to keep your forces in supply.
-- Units have a Command Cost (CC); the number of Command Points (CP's) necessary to allow them to operate to the fullest capacity. Leaders provide CP's. The way the rules describe CP's can be confusing. Think of it like this, a brigadier --one star * general-- will provide 2 CP's, a major general 4 and a lieutenant general 8. The number of CP's that all leaders in one stack can provide for that stack are 8; so 1 *** gen or 2 ** gens or 4 * gens or any appropriate combination can be used provide a stacks 8 CP's. Any CP's provided above that do not count.
All of the above SP rules are different if the stack is withing a chain of command. A chain of command starts at the top with an army commander. Only Lt. Gens can command an army and are given command by selecting a lone Lt. Gen an selecting the Form Army Command in the Special Orders (bottom left of the map). Army commands have a command radios, which you can discover by selecting an army command and holding the <Shift> key pressed. The blue highlighted regions are the command radius of that army command. The higher the strategic rating of the army commander, the larger the radius. Army commands can be created from the beginning of the game and in general you will have at least 1 already in play depending on the scenario you are playing.
-- Once you have an army command, corps can be added to that chain of command. Only Maj. and Lt. Gens can be corps commanders. If you have either of those within the command radius of an army commander select it on the map and you can press the Create Corps special order in the special orders buttons. The tool tip will tell you so to which army command the corps will be attached if it is within the command radius of more than 1 army. The nearest army command will be selected. Corps can be created starting in Early March of '62.
All leaders within a chain of command have their CP's doubled. An army command will have 12 CP's --16 minus 4 for being an army command. A corps commander will provide 8 CP's. With both this can be increased to 16 CP's by adding other leaders to the corps stack. Also the army and corps stacks CP's can be increased by adding a Signal Co. and/or a balloon unit to the stack. CP's are also modified by the stack commander's strategic level. Add or subtract 2 CP's for each level above or below strategic level 3.
Army commands will modify their corps commanders strategic levels. If the army commander is above strat level 3, they can add to the corps command's strat level, but if they are below 3 they can also take away from it.
-- Generally you will want to organize your units into divisions. The main reason to build divisions is to optimize their CC's. A divison is a special type of unit which has a CC of 4. Any leader can be used to create a division if it is activated and not already an army or corps commander. Just select an active leader and press the Enable Division Command SO button. Then stack units with that leaders and combine them with either the Combine Units SO button or by pressing <Cntl><c>.
A division can contain at the most 18 elements, whereby the leader is also an element. Supply units cannot be put into a division, but all other support units can, but you will generally not want to do that, because the other support units have a CC of 0 anyway.
Much had been written about what the optimal makeup of a division is, but in reality it depends of the terrain in which the division is fighting, and that will generally change all the time. There are some things that never change though.
1. Always put 1 Sharpshooter in a division. It provides an initiative point in combat for all other units within the division.
2. I always have about 4 artillery elements in a division; 1x 10lb-er and 3x 6 and/or 12lb-ers. 12lb-ers are better, but cost more, and when it is fixed --it doesn't currently work-- there is a chance that 6lb-ers they will upgrade automatically to 12lb-ers. For the Union the chance is about 12% at the beginning of the war and increased to the end. For the CS it's about 6% from '62, but doesn't change.
3. At least 1 cav element, maybe 2, but I've never tried 3 or more, but I think that would not be too good.
4. the rest is as much infantry as you can stuff into it.
5. Try to have at 1 unit in a division with at least 1 elite element. These are the units that the allocated to you through events announcing that they have been given to you. Putting more than 1 into a division is a waist in general.
It takes a lot of work to build the correct units to fill a division exactly the way you want it to be. If you don't have a phenomenal memory you will probably have to at least write down which units you want for which division to know where to build them and where to move them to have them together to put in that division. Of course you don't have to have them all together at once. You can build a division with just 1 unit and 1 leader and add additional units later. Just combine them in. Once the division command is already created the activation status of the leader doesn't matter.
-- To transport units on ships, just have enough transport capacity to carry the weight of the units. Tool-tips will tell you the capacity of a stack of ships and the weight of a stack of land units. When the ships are in a harbor or adjacent to a land region, just drag-n-drop the land units onto them. It is best to do this inside a harbor, but it depends on the situation.
A stack of ships and land units that end their turn inside a harbor will automatically unload the land unit into the harbor/city. Otherwise you can drag-n-drop the land units from a stack of ships onto any adjacent land region. Also, you can use the Distant Unload SO button and select a land region into which you want to unload. When your fleet with land units becomes adjacent to that region the land units will automatically start to debark into that land region.
If you are invading into a region with enemy units outside of forts and/or cities, it is best to use the drag-n-drop method, as Distant Unload has some combat disadvantages.
-- Always keep your supply lines safe from the enemy and try to disrupt the enemy's supply lines. An enemy without supply is an easy target and you can nearly always get the enemy to retreat if he can get no supply.
-- There have been literally thousands of post written about how to fight the war, Eastern strategy over Western, invading coastal forts and cities or sticking to the overland campaigns, blockading the South or investing only in the army. In the end it depends on how YOU want to fight the war and all of those can work if you do them well.
Feel free to ask question, but see if you can find the answers in the manual or the forums first. Sometimes --often-- it's better to use google site search to search for things in the forum than the forum's search tool, because with google you can search for phrases and the forum search will only search for any of the words you are searching for.
I'll try to give you a rundown on the most important concepts of the game as simply and quickly as possible.
-- All your units need supply. Without supply they will fight poorly and start to lose cohesion and take "hits" representing men deserting or becoming sick. Supply moves automatically from sources --where it is being produced, in large cities generally-- to where it is needed.
Supply is "pulled" by units needing it --in general all of them all the time--, by forts and by depots. The larger the force and the higher the depot level, the greater the pull. Pull will work only over a range of 5 regions at the very most. The rule of thumb is to have a depot every 3 regions along your line of advance to keep your forces in supply.
-- Units have a Command Cost (CC); the number of Command Points (CP's) necessary to allow them to operate to the fullest capacity. Leaders provide CP's. The way the rules describe CP's can be confusing. Think of it like this, a brigadier --one star * general-- will provide 2 CP's, a major general 4 and a lieutenant general 8. The number of CP's that all leaders in one stack can provide for that stack are 8; so 1 *** gen or 2 ** gens or 4 * gens or any appropriate combination can be used provide a stacks 8 CP's. Any CP's provided above that do not count.
All of the above SP rules are different if the stack is withing a chain of command. A chain of command starts at the top with an army commander. Only Lt. Gens can command an army and are given command by selecting a lone Lt. Gen an selecting the Form Army Command in the Special Orders (bottom left of the map). Army commands have a command radios, which you can discover by selecting an army command and holding the <Shift> key pressed. The blue highlighted regions are the command radius of that army command. The higher the strategic rating of the army commander, the larger the radius. Army commands can be created from the beginning of the game and in general you will have at least 1 already in play depending on the scenario you are playing.
-- Once you have an army command, corps can be added to that chain of command. Only Maj. and Lt. Gens can be corps commanders. If you have either of those within the command radius of an army commander select it on the map and you can press the Create Corps special order in the special orders buttons. The tool tip will tell you so to which army command the corps will be attached if it is within the command radius of more than 1 army. The nearest army command will be selected. Corps can be created starting in Early March of '62.
All leaders within a chain of command have their CP's doubled. An army command will have 12 CP's --16 minus 4 for being an army command. A corps commander will provide 8 CP's. With both this can be increased to 16 CP's by adding other leaders to the corps stack. Also the army and corps stacks CP's can be increased by adding a Signal Co. and/or a balloon unit to the stack. CP's are also modified by the stack commander's strategic level. Add or subtract 2 CP's for each level above or below strategic level 3.
Army commands will modify their corps commanders strategic levels. If the army commander is above strat level 3, they can add to the corps command's strat level, but if they are below 3 they can also take away from it.
-- Generally you will want to organize your units into divisions. The main reason to build divisions is to optimize their CC's. A divison is a special type of unit which has a CC of 4. Any leader can be used to create a division if it is activated and not already an army or corps commander. Just select an active leader and press the Enable Division Command SO button. Then stack units with that leaders and combine them with either the Combine Units SO button or by pressing <Cntl><c>.
A division can contain at the most 18 elements, whereby the leader is also an element. Supply units cannot be put into a division, but all other support units can, but you will generally not want to do that, because the other support units have a CC of 0 anyway.
Much had been written about what the optimal makeup of a division is, but in reality it depends of the terrain in which the division is fighting, and that will generally change all the time. There are some things that never change though.
1. Always put 1 Sharpshooter in a division. It provides an initiative point in combat for all other units within the division.
2. I always have about 4 artillery elements in a division; 1x 10lb-er and 3x 6 and/or 12lb-ers. 12lb-ers are better, but cost more, and when it is fixed --it doesn't currently work-- there is a chance that 6lb-ers they will upgrade automatically to 12lb-ers. For the Union the chance is about 12% at the beginning of the war and increased to the end. For the CS it's about 6% from '62, but doesn't change.
3. At least 1 cav element, maybe 2, but I've never tried 3 or more, but I think that would not be too good.
4. the rest is as much infantry as you can stuff into it.
5. Try to have at 1 unit in a division with at least 1 elite element. These are the units that the allocated to you through events announcing that they have been given to you. Putting more than 1 into a division is a waist in general.
It takes a lot of work to build the correct units to fill a division exactly the way you want it to be. If you don't have a phenomenal memory you will probably have to at least write down which units you want for which division to know where to build them and where to move them to have them together to put in that division. Of course you don't have to have them all together at once. You can build a division with just 1 unit and 1 leader and add additional units later. Just combine them in. Once the division command is already created the activation status of the leader doesn't matter.
-- To transport units on ships, just have enough transport capacity to carry the weight of the units. Tool-tips will tell you the capacity of a stack of ships and the weight of a stack of land units. When the ships are in a harbor or adjacent to a land region, just drag-n-drop the land units onto them. It is best to do this inside a harbor, but it depends on the situation.
A stack of ships and land units that end their turn inside a harbor will automatically unload the land unit into the harbor/city. Otherwise you can drag-n-drop the land units from a stack of ships onto any adjacent land region. Also, you can use the Distant Unload SO button and select a land region into which you want to unload. When your fleet with land units becomes adjacent to that region the land units will automatically start to debark into that land region.
If you are invading into a region with enemy units outside of forts and/or cities, it is best to use the drag-n-drop method, as Distant Unload has some combat disadvantages.
-- Always keep your supply lines safe from the enemy and try to disrupt the enemy's supply lines. An enemy without supply is an easy target and you can nearly always get the enemy to retreat if he can get no supply.
-- There have been literally thousands of post written about how to fight the war, Eastern strategy over Western, invading coastal forts and cities or sticking to the overland campaigns, blockading the South or investing only in the army. In the end it depends on how YOU want to fight the war and all of those can work if you do them well.
Feel free to ask question, but see if you can find the answers in the manual or the forums first. Sometimes --often-- it's better to use google site search to search for things in the forum than the forum's search tool, because with google you can search for phrases and the forum search will only search for any of the words you are searching for.
Thank you everyone for the responses. I will keep periodically trying to learn the first game to see if the second game is something I should take the plunge on.
There are things every Union player should do as soon as they start a game. Leaving one of these out can make finishing a game pointless, if this is anything like other grand strategy games I've played on the Civil War or WWI. As an example, in Gary Grigsby, every Union player on the first turn of the 1861 start should:
During Movement:
1. Call a draft
2. Create cavalry units at the Kentucky crossing points
3. Consider whether to attack Manassas (but only do it with less than 21 units so you don't give the South a strategic victory).
4. Position ships for the blockade
5. Activate Morgan and Cadwalader in the east to train militia
6. Attack with McClellan in WV
7. Etc., etc.
Production
1. Build warships and ironclads everywhere you can
2. Build factories in Chicago, Indiana, Wisconsin, and other locations that can't build units (this is key for building supply later as your army expands and expands)
3. Build transports in pretty much every city that can.
4. And so on.
These moves are made every time, regardless of strategy. And going through them all really helps a new player understand every core aspect. After that the game becomes a sandbox, but it doesn't mean that a lot of early turn activity isn't mostly scripted. AACW might be more open ended, but I'm betting if you don't industrialize as the Union or do other small things on the first turn, you are in bad shape later.
There are things every Union player should do as soon as they start a game. Leaving one of these out can make finishing a game pointless, if this is anything like other grand strategy games I've played on the Civil War or WWI. As an example, in Gary Grigsby, every Union player on the first turn of the 1861 start should:
During Movement:
1. Call a draft
2. Create cavalry units at the Kentucky crossing points
3. Consider whether to attack Manassas (but only do it with less than 21 units so you don't give the South a strategic victory).
4. Position ships for the blockade
5. Activate Morgan and Cadwalader in the east to train militia
6. Attack with McClellan in WV
7. Etc., etc.
Production
1. Build warships and ironclads everywhere you can
2. Build factories in Chicago, Indiana, Wisconsin, and other locations that can't build units (this is key for building supply later as your army expands and expands)
3. Build transports in pretty much every city that can.
4. And so on.
These moves are made every time, regardless of strategy. And going through them all really helps a new player understand every core aspect. After that the game becomes a sandbox, but it doesn't mean that a lot of early turn activity isn't mostly scripted. AACW might be more open ended, but I'm betting if you don't industrialize as the Union or do other small things on the first turn, you are in bad shape later.
Opening moves in this game are more like opening moves in chess, there are a lot of broad possibilities and lots of variations on these. As an illustration, here are my opening moves as union, more or less:
Play the develop card on the Nevada and Colorado gold mining areas.
Play Habeus Corpus on New York (and some other region, but the second region varies).
There isn't much else to do the first turn. Many people play treasury options whenever possible, but I tend to wait, and only do the one that costs VP whenever possible. In the next few turns I have a couple strong tendencies:
When the units arrive in Manassas, I put them on passive and in the city so that the missing elements get filled. I also do this with all the frigates and any other naval units that arrive with empty elements.
When units arrive in California, I usually move them south towards West Texas, although some will send transports and sail them East. I usually try to control Harper's Ferry and central Missouri as soon as possible, but not always in the same way.
The first few times you can industrialize, I build every Iron Works available (I usually build more, but not always).
There might be a few things I'm missing, but the game is really wide open. I think other than the first 3 cards, nothing is set in stone for me. I don't ever build units in the same order. Nor do I move units that arrive by event always in the same way (other than those in California). I'll bet some don't do the same cards and I know many ignore cards altogether - which might be recommended for beginners anyway. Plus, units don't always arrive in the same turn, for instance sometimes Schulz's cavalry arrives early enough to make raids on Virginia before the South could possibly counter and sometimes he seems to arrive very late.
Play the develop card on the Nevada and Colorado gold mining areas.
Play Habeus Corpus on New York (and some other region, but the second region varies).
There isn't much else to do the first turn. Many people play treasury options whenever possible, but I tend to wait, and only do the one that costs VP whenever possible. In the next few turns I have a couple strong tendencies:
When the units arrive in Manassas, I put them on passive and in the city so that the missing elements get filled. I also do this with all the frigates and any other naval units that arrive with empty elements.
When units arrive in California, I usually move them south towards West Texas, although some will send transports and sail them East. I usually try to control Harper's Ferry and central Missouri as soon as possible, but not always in the same way.
The first few times you can industrialize, I build every Iron Works available (I usually build more, but not always).
There might be a few things I'm missing, but the game is really wide open. I think other than the first 3 cards, nothing is set in stone for me. I don't ever build units in the same order. Nor do I move units that arrive by event always in the same way (other than those in California). I'll bet some don't do the same cards and I know many ignore cards altogether - which might be recommended for beginners anyway. Plus, units don't always arrive in the same turn, for instance sometimes Schulz's cavalry arrives early enough to make raids on Virginia before the South could possibly counter and sometimes he seems to arrive very late.
I agree with Tripax : there is no optimal list of moves/actions you have to follow in order to win, all the more since your opponent may act differently in each game.
This is the beauty of the game : you are free to explore your own strategy. There is do (protect your supply lines, avoid command penalty, watch your cohesion, ...) and don't (attack without power advantage, let your capital without protection, ...) you must be aware of but if you decide to wait to use a financial or recruitement option it doesn't mean you will loose, if you decide not to fight for Manassas you can still win, ...
This is the beauty of the game : you are free to explore your own strategy. There is do (protect your supply lines, avoid command penalty, watch your cohesion, ...) and don't (attack without power advantage, let your capital without protection, ...) you must be aware of but if you decide to wait to use a financial or recruitement option it doesn't mean you will loose, if you decide not to fight for Manassas you can still win, ...
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Union Bear
- Conscript
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- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:34 pm
I agree with a lot of what is said. As the Union player, I try to create as much infantry as possible in Missouri and Cairo, IL. Taking Springfield is key to controlling what goes on out West and allows easy access to western Arkansas. I try to destroy half the forts and Rebel depots so they act in desperation a lot. You can get away with Militia defending a lot of western garrison with some light artillery. Use Franz Sigel to train militia when created once he becomes available.
Controlling Western Kentucky is necessary to take Memphis, control Memphis, and easily allocating troops to support an assault on Nashville or trek further down the Mississippi towards Vicksburg. You can't do a ton out east until 1862/1863 so I try to build a 3-4 division force/army to take New Orleans.
Use your better commanders for all offensive matters early so you have a better chance at success and you get then promoted. Get Buell and McClellan out of the way as soon as possible. Watch out for certain commanders skills actually getting worse with more command. For instance, Burnside does very well for me as a division commander but I am weary to let him command a corps. And you know how well he does in charge of an army.
Controlling Western Kentucky is necessary to take Memphis, control Memphis, and easily allocating troops to support an assault on Nashville or trek further down the Mississippi towards Vicksburg. You can't do a ton out east until 1862/1863 so I try to build a 3-4 division force/army to take New Orleans.
Use your better commanders for all offensive matters early so you have a better chance at success and you get then promoted. Get Buell and McClellan out of the way as soon as possible. Watch out for certain commanders skills actually getting worse with more command. For instance, Burnside does very well for me as a division commander but I am weary to let him command a corps. And you know how well he does in charge of an army.
Prior to corps is there any point to armies?
I'm not sure how to organize my forces when I don't have corps. Should it just be a bunch of divisions as independent stacks? Should divisions be stacked directly with the army?
What's the point of McDowell in the July 1861 scenario, in other words? Everything in the manual suggests that armies work primarily with corps to provide bonuses.
I'm not sure how to organize my forces when I don't have corps. Should it just be a bunch of divisions as independent stacks? Should divisions be stacked directly with the army?
What's the point of McDowell in the July 1861 scenario, in other words? Everything in the manual suggests that armies work primarily with corps to provide bonuses.
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loki100
- AGEod Guard of Honor
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jscott991 wrote:Prior to corps is there any point to armies?
I'm not sure how to organize my forces when I don't have corps. Should it just be a bunch of divisions as independent stacks? Should divisions be stacked directly with the army?
What's the point of McDowell in the July 1861 scenario, in other words? Everything in the manual suggests that armies work primarily with corps to provide bonuses.
basically there are two types of 'army' in the game. One is what in other AGE games is called the simple command system. Here you add a mix of generals (at different levels of seniority), build up the CP to the level you can and then add combat units. So its a collection of units that will then fight as an entity, but it won't march to the sound of the guns so can only really control the province its in.
If instead you have all those units under separate commanders (ie a mix of individual stacks), then the combat algorithm may hit you hard. First, they may not all actually engage, second the enemy may concentrate their fire on one or two (which could see the entire stack wiped out).
So the early army is a way to lump together what would otherwise be different formations and to gain some unity of command.
Once you get corps, the 'army' becomes something different. Here, you have an organic connection between the different stacks (expressed usually as march to the sound of the guns), so an 'army' can cover multiple provinces and be mutually self-supporting. At that stage you may want to think very carefully about what mix of units you put in the army stack compared to the corps.
AJE The Hero, The Traitor and The Barbarian
PoN Manufacturing Italy; A clear bright sun
RoP The Mightiest Empires Fall
WIA Burning down the Houses; Wars in America; The Tea Wars
PoN Manufacturing Italy; A clear bright sun
RoP The Mightiest Empires Fall
WIA Burning down the Houses; Wars in America; The Tea Wars
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ArmChairGeneral
- AGEod Grognard
- Posts: 997
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:00 am
- Location: Austin, TX, USA
[Edit: cross posted with loki who explained some of this better than I did]
Yes they are important prior to corps formation but do not really come into their own until then. Armies give a 3* general twice his normal command points, doubling the number of divisions you can put in his stack. Pre corps-formation, Armies are the only very-large-stacks you can provide adequate command points for. Post-Corps, 2*s can give almost as many CPs as an Army via a corps, but will never give quite as large as a really good Army under Lee or Grant, who can get into the mid-twenties with signal corps, aides-de-camp, strategic rating bonus, etc.
A general combat principle is to concentrate your forces into as large of units as possible (divisions are the largest unit) and then to put those units into as large of stacks as possible. A given set of divisions will work better in one stack than if they are split into two stacks. It is usually better to accept the CP penalty rather than split into two stacks. Therefore, Armies are important at any phase of the game because they have the most CPs of any stack.
The tradeoff with armies is that they are fairly permanent once you make them (you CAN demote an army commander, but it is expensive). Armies cannot coordinate (MTSG, stat bonuses) with other armies or their corps, only with their own corps. Depending on who you have available for leadership, it is sometimes advisable NOT to create armies with every three star because later they are more useful commanding corps attached to better Army commanders. A really good Army commander like Lee or Grant can pass major stat bonuses to his corps, so it makes sense to attach corps to the best Army commanders. You can see the bonus your Army commander is giving a corps commander by selecting the corps and then hovering over the diamond icon at the very top of the far-right hand panel. Sometimes you are stuck with Army commanders you do not want or need (sorry, but specifically this means McClellan, unless you mod him to be better or select leader stat-randomization, which almost always benefits him).
The worst command penalty is -35%, which is also the maximum total combat malus you can receive. If you are also getting a malus from, say, inactivation, it will not be -70%, it is capped at -35%. So, once your stack is -35% already, you might as well pile in the troops (this is useful to know pre-division formation, where almost any large stack will be operating at CP deficit).
Outside the ""command structure," which means a stack that is not an Army or Corps, 2 and 3 stars provide extra CPs, but cap out at a smaller number than if they were corps or Army commanders, though still higher than the max a bunch of 1 stars can get together which I think is 4 CPs. A non-Army three star with a few extra leaders with him can still effectively command a two or three division stack if you set it up right, so they are useful pre-corps even if you have not created an Army around them.
Yes they are important prior to corps formation but do not really come into their own until then. Armies give a 3* general twice his normal command points, doubling the number of divisions you can put in his stack. Pre corps-formation, Armies are the only very-large-stacks you can provide adequate command points for. Post-Corps, 2*s can give almost as many CPs as an Army via a corps, but will never give quite as large as a really good Army under Lee or Grant, who can get into the mid-twenties with signal corps, aides-de-camp, strategic rating bonus, etc.
A general combat principle is to concentrate your forces into as large of units as possible (divisions are the largest unit) and then to put those units into as large of stacks as possible. A given set of divisions will work better in one stack than if they are split into two stacks. It is usually better to accept the CP penalty rather than split into two stacks. Therefore, Armies are important at any phase of the game because they have the most CPs of any stack.
The tradeoff with armies is that they are fairly permanent once you make them (you CAN demote an army commander, but it is expensive). Armies cannot coordinate (MTSG, stat bonuses) with other armies or their corps, only with their own corps. Depending on who you have available for leadership, it is sometimes advisable NOT to create armies with every three star because later they are more useful commanding corps attached to better Army commanders. A really good Army commander like Lee or Grant can pass major stat bonuses to his corps, so it makes sense to attach corps to the best Army commanders. You can see the bonus your Army commander is giving a corps commander by selecting the corps and then hovering over the diamond icon at the very top of the far-right hand panel. Sometimes you are stuck with Army commanders you do not want or need (sorry, but specifically this means McClellan, unless you mod him to be better or select leader stat-randomization, which almost always benefits him).
The worst command penalty is -35%, which is also the maximum total combat malus you can receive. If you are also getting a malus from, say, inactivation, it will not be -70%, it is capped at -35%. So, once your stack is -35% already, you might as well pile in the troops (this is useful to know pre-division formation, where almost any large stack will be operating at CP deficit).
Outside the ""command structure," which means a stack that is not an Army or Corps, 2 and 3 stars provide extra CPs, but cap out at a smaller number than if they were corps or Army commanders, though still higher than the max a bunch of 1 stars can get together which I think is 4 CPs. A non-Army three star with a few extra leaders with him can still effectively command a two or three division stack if you set it up right, so they are useful pre-corps even if you have not created an Army around them.
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ArmChairGeneral
- AGEod Grognard
- Posts: 997
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:00 am
- Location: Austin, TX, USA
jscott,
As an aside, you would be well served by reading some of loki's AARs for other games, particularly AJE, RoP and WIA as linked in his sig. Ageod games all play very similarly, (the command structure and the supply systems are the major differences) and loki and his regular opponent narwhal write really good AARs that shed a lot of light on how to do things right. I wish they would do a CW2 AAR....
As an aside, you would be well served by reading some of loki's AARs for other games, particularly AJE, RoP and WIA as linked in his sig. Ageod games all play very similarly, (the command structure and the supply systems are the major differences) and loki and his regular opponent narwhal write really good AARs that shed a lot of light on how to do things right. I wish they would do a CW2 AAR....
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Chicharito19
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- Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:33 pm
Well, I've played through early April 1862 (starting July 1861). It's been . . . interesting.
I got the hang of organizing units and moving (though synchronizing movement is kind of a useless feature if it only synchronizes movement from units starting in the same region).
My big question, however, is where the CSA is in my game? They've done virtually nothing except push stacks around in Virginia and launch a crappy invasion of Kentucky (that ended up getting 8,000 men trapped in Louisville to be destroyed after a long siege).
I wish the first game had some reports showing total army sizes or whatever. I can't figure out where the CSA's army is and what it is doing.
I got the hang of organizing units and moving (though synchronizing movement is kind of a useless feature if it only synchronizes movement from units starting in the same region).
My big question, however, is where the CSA is in my game? They've done virtually nothing except push stacks around in Virginia and launch a crappy invasion of Kentucky (that ended up getting 8,000 men trapped in Louisville to be destroyed after a long siege).
I wish the first game had some reports showing total army sizes or whatever. I can't figure out where the CSA's army is and what it is doing.
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ArmChairGeneral
- AGEod Grognard
- Posts: 997
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:00 am
- Location: Austin, TX, USA
Athena's best performance comes on the counterattack; if you get overly aggressive she is very good at making you pay. She is at her weakest when sitting back and waiting for you. She does not have numbers in the East, and defense is stronger than offense, so she is probably sitting back and building, which is long-term, a losing strategy for the CSA and one which she cannot execute as well as a human player. If you commit, you will be capable of far outbuilding her and overwhelming her with a little patience. Turtle early, SOD late is pretty much the default strategy for the Union, and the less active she is, the less she interferes with your buildup, and it sounds like you are not giving her much in the way of opportunity to exploit your mistakes. You should be caught up or ahead in NM by now if you have not lost a lot of battles, and you should start getting better quality leaders soon.
Once you organize your corps, it may be about time to start taking the fight to her, but you will want to find out what she has and where first, so you can make sure to bring twice as many divisions when you attack. This thread has some tips on CW2 scouting. Searching the AACW forum for "scouting" will probably yield better and more relevant info.
When scouting, the idea is to avoid contact with the enemy, which risks losing your scout stack entirely if they are found by a division or larger force. Plot their moves through regions where they are unlikely to encounter enemies, but next to regions you are interested in. Do not sit stationary on a major rail line, since it is likely that troops shuffling regions (Athena shuffles a lot) will find and engage your scouts as they pass through via rail. You get one less detection for every region away from your location, so a 5 detection cavalry stack gives you 4 detection in adjacent regions, which is usually enough to get you usable intel.
Interpreting the partial intel you receive is somewhat of an artform, you will get the hang of it over time. Tips: You often get different info on different turns (it is somewhat random). The info you get may be incomplete but it is not false; if you see it on a tooltip, the intel is true though not always the whole story. Watch out for the "Also here" lines at the bottom of the tooltip pop-up window; also-heres can easily outnumber the stacks you get more detailed info on and can give you a nasty surprise if you don't notice them.
Once you organize your corps, it may be about time to start taking the fight to her, but you will want to find out what she has and where first, so you can make sure to bring twice as many divisions when you attack. This thread has some tips on CW2 scouting. Searching the AACW forum for "scouting" will probably yield better and more relevant info.
When scouting, the idea is to avoid contact with the enemy, which risks losing your scout stack entirely if they are found by a division or larger force. Plot their moves through regions where they are unlikely to encounter enemies, but next to regions you are interested in. Do not sit stationary on a major rail line, since it is likely that troops shuffling regions (Athena shuffles a lot) will find and engage your scouts as they pass through via rail. You get one less detection for every region away from your location, so a 5 detection cavalry stack gives you 4 detection in adjacent regions, which is usually enough to get you usable intel.
Interpreting the partial intel you receive is somewhat of an artform, you will get the hang of it over time. Tips: You often get different info on different turns (it is somewhat random). The info you get may be incomplete but it is not false; if you see it on a tooltip, the intel is true though not always the whole story. Watch out for the "Also here" lines at the bottom of the tooltip pop-up window; also-heres can easily outnumber the stacks you get more detailed info on and can give you a nasty surprise if you don't notice them.
Mickey3D wrote:Use your cavalry/partisan units to scout ennemy position (give them the "evade combat" order and "retreat if engaged" posture).
Sorry, my post wasn't clear.
I play with the fog of war off. I know where all the CSA armies are (at least if I'm understanding FoW settings correctly). They just don't have any. There is only one army container (Beauregard's near Culpeper) and nothing defending Richmond. There is no army in the west at all, just a few scattered divisions. I've got McClellan sitting next to Richmond with 9 full divisions, another corps next to him with 3 divisions, and a fifth corps on the Peninsula trapping a division in Williamsburg with 3 divisions.
In the west, there's nothing facing Grant's 6 divisions or Buell's 6 divisions except three very scattered divisions. The CSA just doesn't have any forces at all.
After having a bit of fun building up my armies and understanding activations, I now realize there isn't any point to continuing this game.
Edit: One more clarification. There have been no battles of significance the entire war. The biggest battle involved a Confederate division attacking Pittsburgh (I guess the AI can't avoid this wonderful tactic) and then retreating all the way back to the Valley.
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ArmChairGeneral
- AGEod Grognard
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I have never been entirely clear what the FoW setting does. Does it give perfect visibility and intel when Off?
(For that matter, when playing with FoW On, does the term "in the fog of war" have a specific in-game meaning beyond just "I have inadequate Detection in the region?" I am wondering mainly because of how the balloon tooltip is written. When it says it affects the "fog of war," is it referring to the balloon's 5 Detection, or some ability on top of that I don't understand.)
jscott,
It is possible that Athena has just had a bad game (or you have done well) and that you are about to crush her. 1.17 Athena was really tough to beat for me until I had played many games, and I had won many games against the older patches (Athena gets better as the patches come out since her "interests" are tweaked to match best-play tactics and strategy based on internal testing and feedback from players) so not sure exactly what is going on. I primarily play as CSA, and the two Athena's are not necessarily as good as each other, so maybe that is it. Try harder settings on your next go-round, it sounds like you are ready for it.
In terms of starting over, I have only finished a couple of games as either side (none as Union in CW2). Once you have played 50 turns (or whatever) and you know you have it in the bag, or know that you are losing badly, it is normal to start over with different settings rather than grinding out the win (loss) against the AI. I would recommending grinding it out once or twice as each side, just so you know that you know how to do it, but it takes way too long to be worth doing more than a few times IMO. Against a human player you would always grind it out, the CSA player can win on points that way, but against the AI... meh.
(For that matter, when playing with FoW On, does the term "in the fog of war" have a specific in-game meaning beyond just "I have inadequate Detection in the region?" I am wondering mainly because of how the balloon tooltip is written. When it says it affects the "fog of war," is it referring to the balloon's 5 Detection, or some ability on top of that I don't understand.)
jscott,
It is possible that Athena has just had a bad game (or you have done well) and that you are about to crush her. 1.17 Athena was really tough to beat for me until I had played many games, and I had won many games against the older patches (Athena gets better as the patches come out since her "interests" are tweaked to match best-play tactics and strategy based on internal testing and feedback from players) so not sure exactly what is going on. I primarily play as CSA, and the two Athena's are not necessarily as good as each other, so maybe that is it. Try harder settings on your next go-round, it sounds like you are ready for it.
In terms of starting over, I have only finished a couple of games as either side (none as Union in CW2). Once you have played 50 turns (or whatever) and you know you have it in the bag, or know that you are losing badly, it is normal to start over with different settings rather than grinding out the win (loss) against the AI. I would recommending grinding it out once or twice as each side, just so you know that you know how to do it, but it takes way too long to be worth doing more than a few times IMO. Against a human player you would always grind it out, the CSA player can win on points that way, but against the AI... meh.
Yeah I took Richmond and the AI finally started to do something. Beauregard, using Lee as a corps commander (annoying that the AI doesn't optimize its commanders, but it's hard to find a Civil War game starting in 1861 that actually uses Robert E. Lee correctly), woke up and took back Manassas before being chased away when McClellan's army turned from Richmond to come back after him.
Does the AI build army containers or not? It looks like the AI still just has the one army it starts the game with (Beauregard). If the AI doesn't build any more, I'm going to have to script an event. It's ridiculous to not face anything in the West.
Does the AI build army containers or not? It looks like the AI still just has the one army it starts the game with (Beauregard). If the AI doesn't build any more, I'm going to have to script an event. It's ridiculous to not face anything in the West.
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