Slaughtered Fleet

[marquo]

How does one use a fleet to support besieged cities or forces on and - this is what my opponent MT manages to do consistently. Annapolis was supported by a large fleet which was virtually sunk by fire from a division on land. I have to be doing something wrong, because nowhere in the annals of the ACW did this happen.

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66 hits from a division on land and 4 ships sunk

What I is going on?

Thanks

Marquo

[Ol' Choctaw]

You have your fleet in bombard. They have to be in range of the enemy to do that. You shell them, they shell you back.

[Gen.DixonS.Miles]

Where in the actual vincinity of (real life) Annapolis is there a good point to bring cannon to bear on the coast? I can't recall from my travels to that region any high precipices or easily defensible points.

Translating those results into what the real life scenario could have been is that your ocean going ships got too close to shore or got grounded and thus were sitting ducks to Ruggles cannon fire. Thus why you lost four ships.

[marquo]

The real bottom line (I think) is that if they are emplaced artillery units in a level 3 fort it not only blocks supply but perhaps also rains down hell on ships. It seems suicidal to support cities with fleets if the enemy is entrenched in the region and with guns. I think he uses captured large garrison guns...

[Ol' Choctaw]

The fort and the division did fire on you. It was because you have given your fleet the bombard special order. They attacked the enemy as instructed.

12 naval combat elements would blockade Annapolis. That would halve any production and supply there.

I realize that you wanted to bombard any troops moving into the Baltimore region but your sea region borders both. There is no way to tell the fleet to only shoot at one region and avoid contact in the other.

The trouble was that you did not read the terrain correctly to accomplish what you wanted. It would have worked well in most other regions, but not in this one, as you can see.

[loki100]

The real bottom line (I think) is that if they are emplaced artillery units in a level 3 fort it not only blocks supply but perhaps also rains down hell on ships. It seems suicidal to support cities with fleets if the enemy is entrenched in the region and with guns. I think he uses captured large garrison guns...

as above you effectively ordered your fleet to close with, and bombard. shore based batteries. Rarely works in favour of the fleet. Realise it probably wasn't what you were seeking to achieve but the game engine worked as designed. In general, be very careful with the bombard command as you tend to lose duels with shore based guns. Only time I risk it is if I am doing an invasion at the same time - then the risk of losing all the invading troops makes losing a few ships a worthwhile gamble

[marquo]

The order indicates that Fleet Bombardment supports ground troops; does it also allow ships to fire on batteries, land units independent of ground troops attacking or being attacked? If so, the order is misleading.

[Ace]

To support your troops they have to get in range of land batteries.
I see MT managed again to dominate as the South even in 1.02. He must be quite a player

[loki100]

The order indicates that Fleet Bombardment supports ground troops; does it also allow ships to fire on batteries, land units independent of ground troops attacking or being attacked? If so, the order is misleading.

No, it just means that once you give that order your fleet is incredibly vulnerable to any land based guns. You are taking wooden ships with relatively short ranged guns very close to the shore.

More generally that MT has managed to reduce the game to a set of min/max I win moves is not a surprise (if rather depressing)

[Michael T]

What I have done is easily countered. Marquo just hasn't figured it out yet. He will get there.

[Captain_Orso]

Firstly, to support a land force with naval units can only happen if the attacking land force is itself not bombarding. If it is set to bombard, and you set your fleet to bombard, then the land force and fleet with dual each other with artillery, in which the fleet has a great disadvantage. For the fleet to do anything damage it must actually hit an emplaced gun. For a shore battery to do any damage it must only hit a ship. There is a huge difference in target size.

To get some idea of what the ratio between ships and shore batteries should be for a successful shore bombardment of emplaced guns read the Wiki articles about the two Fort Fisher battles. Also have numerous ironclads in your fleet to soak-off the shore batteries works wonders.

If the besieging force is not actually fighting with your land force, in other words you have a land force outside of Annapolis in the field actually fighting, your fleet cannot support it.

As has been stated, blockading the enemy in Annapolis is about the best you can do with your fleet. It blocks naval supplies from reaching Annapolis, not that the South will have that much, but it will also halve what is produced there.

[Gen.DixonS.Miles]

I think you have him in the bag out east Michael T.

[marquo]

The fat lady has not yet sung....