CW2 manual needs attention

[mr_flappypants]

I don't wish to berate or offend anyone associated with CW2. I am merely voicing a bit of frustration as I try to grasp a game I have a large desire to master.

I do wish to express my concern regarding the current manual released with CW2. There are so many things that are missing which are preventing me from understanding, playing, and enjoying this game to its fullest potential. I've had plenty of fun thus far just diving into the game and learning as I go from what has been made available (tutorials, forum, manual, etc.) but without a comprehensive guide on the game, the resources currently available are exhausting their usefulness at an alarming rate. I feel bound by the limited knowledge available to me as the player. So many questions that I have just cannot be found in the manual. The manual itself is full of information that leaves me unsatisfied and guessing. Its a frustrating disposition to say the least.

I know that the game was just released so elements of the manual will inevitably change over time as the game is updated. However, even fundamental concepts employed in the current version of the game are either completely skipped over, glossed over, or referred to without details.

Please find some time to update the manual. Please let us know if and when the manual will be updated.

Expanding the manual would make an otherwise beautiful and seemingly entertaining game more accessible to a wider audience. Do we have any community contributors or any that which to contribute in a significant way? If so, would it be feasible to organize a concerted effort into constructing a wiki for the game or a document which can supplement the game manual?

Regards.

[Ace]

I now this is not exactly what you've asked for, but here is a link to cw1 wiki.
Many of the games concepts are still valid.
So until new cw2 wiki is out, here is the link:

http://www.ageod.net/aacwwiki/Main_Page

[Rafiki]

I understand your frustration. The manual has been written to provide what new players need to play and enjoy the game, but I think it is an impossible task to write a manual that covers everything that everyone might need to be taught through the manual.

However, that said, we strive to improve the material, and I have problems imagining any question that you will be unable to get answered by posting at these forums

It would be a good help to know; which things/areas have you found frustrating in particular? Which areas do you consider to be most in need of addressing?

[mr_flappypants]

Thanks for the replies thus far. I do appreciate it.

Well, one example would be the listing of the decisions you can make in the appendices. Some of these decisions don't even really explain to me what they actually do for me as a player or why I should bother with them. Take for example the subsection for "Regional Development Related" decisions. The decisions increase the development of a particular region, I get that, but gives no indication as to how much Dev increase it corresponds to. Furthermore, I can't find anything in the manual that illustrates why regional development even matters. Take the 'Clear' or 'Telegraph' decisions. They increase the regional development only, but what does that mean?

Also, another quick example that comes to mind are gunboats. I'm going to assume these are just river combat units? Do they hang out in port and initiate combat with passing enemy fleets or are they to be posted in the actual river (if there is such a thing)? Are cottonclads just more powerful versions of gunboats? Do these boats suffer attrition and have to be returned to a port every so often? It would be nice for a notification that warns the user if a boat should be returned to port soon due to attrition, or have a setting that says "auto-return when cohesion falls below 50 or 25% or something along with a notification that the unit has returned to port.

I'm sure I'll be able to think of more that I've run into in the coming days.

[Ace]

Some of these decisions don't even really explain to me what they actually do for me as a player or why I should bother with them. Take for example the subsection for "Regional Development Related" decisions. The decisions increase the development of a particular region, I get that, but gives no indication as to how much Dev increase it corresponds to. Furthermore, I can't find anything in the manual that illustrates why regional development even matters. Take the 'Clear' or 'Telegraph' decisions. They increase the regional development only, but what does that mean?

I understand your concerns, but very often fine things like actual effect of a regional decision are fine tuned, or so to say minorly change in the patches after the game is released. It is difficult to put exact development number effect in a manual when something like that is likely to change. We could propose to the designers a little more informative tooltip is written. Would you be more happy if the tooltip is short and concise, or that a tooltip is very large and covers every technical aspect of the decision as when you can play it and what effects it brings? Remember that shorter tooltip looks prettier. What is an absolute must have information for a tooltip in your opinion?

For your question about development, due to nature and relatively short span of time, region development will not bring you increase money effects. Increased money and war suppllies production can be achieved through options in the strategic ledger.
Development level effect forage capacity and movement time of a region.
Basically, levels are:

Wild (0-25)
Cleared (26-50)
Civilized (51-75)
Developed or Rich (>75)

Lower developed regions have movement penalties, and are more easily pillaged due to foragin for food. So wild region has 20% movement penalties, and cleared region has 10% movement penalty.
Regional decisions bring small random increases (around 5 points, few points more or less, depending on a decision and your luck), so do not expect to turn Las Vegas region into a rich province yet . What you can do with them is increase bottle-necks in your transportation capacity. For example, if you want to invade CSA through West Virgina mountains, you would have to invest in the development of those regions, so your troops and supplies can more easily pass through the mountains. Consider it a card for some extra engineering work.

Also, another quick example that comes to mind are gunboats. I'm going to assume these are just river combat units? Do they hang out in port and initiate combat with passing enemy fleets or are they to be posted in the actual river (if there is such a thing)? Are cottonclads just more powerful versions of gunboats? Do these boats suffer attrition and have to be returned to a port every so often? It would be nice for a notification that warns the user if a boat should be returned to port soon due to attrition, or have a setting that says "auto-return when cohesion falls below 50 or 25% or something along with a notification that the unit has returned to port.

Yes they are river combat units (there are actual river just drag and drop boat on them ), and they can be on river regions indefinitely, if in defensive posture. The weather (especially ice) can influence their health and cohesion, so when you see them exhausted, you can return them to the port. Seeing when a unit is exhausted is actually quite easy. Blue bar next to unit stack is cohesion. When you see it fall down, return them to port. Higher level ports will bring their health sooner back then smaller ports. You can always filter in F1 stack for low health stacks, but personally I never do it, I see it all on the main map.
Yes cottoncalds are more powerfull gunboats, and ironclads are more powerfull then them all. You can always propose auto return feature to the developers, but personally think such a feature belong more to real time strategies. In a turn based strategy, you can always scroll with y and x keys through naval stacks and decide what do you want to do with them.

[mr_flappypants]

Would you be more happy if the tooltip is short and concise, or that a tooltip is very large and covers every technical aspect of the decision as when you can play it and what effects it brings? Remember that shorter tooltip looks prettier. What is an absolute must have information for a tooltip in your opinion?

Of course a tooltip shouldn't cover every aspect and take up the whole screen. Don't be silly.

A tooltip should offer enough information that conveys the important information that can be understood by a semi-experienced player. For the new player, it should provide enough information to guide said player to the manual for more details.

and they can be on river regions indefinitely, if in defensive posture.

Now that is quite interesting.

[Ebbingford]

and they can be on river regions indefinitely, if in defensive posture.

Depending on what supply setting you are using...... (They do use supply.....)

[lodilefty]

I now this is not exactly what you've asked for, but here is a link to cw1 wiki.
Many of the games concepts are still valid.
So until new cw2 wiki is out, here is the link:

http://www.ageod.net/aacwwiki/Main_Page

..and even more, up to date info for game concepts and modding:

http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Main_Page

[the "old" AACW Wiki is not really being maintained. AFAIK, there will not be a "new" CW2 Wiki, but rather more info will be added to the Main Wiki}

[Generalisimo]

Thanks for the replies thus far. I do appreciate it.

Well, one example would be the listing of the decisions you can make in the appendices. Some of these decisions don't even really explain to me what they actually do for me as a player or why I should bother with them. Take for example the subsection for "Regional Development Related" decisions. The decisions increase the development of a particular region, I get that, but gives no indication as to how much Dev increase it corresponds to. Furthermore, I can't find anything in the manual that illustrates why regional development even matters. Take the 'Clear' or 'Telegraph' decisions. They increase the regional development only, but what does that mean?

Also, another quick example that comes to mind are gunboats. I'm going to assume these are just river combat units? Do they hang out in port and initiate combat with passing enemy fleets or are they to be posted in the actual river (if there is such a thing)? Are cottonclads just more powerful versions of gunboats? Do these boats suffer attrition and have to be returned to a port every so often? It would be nice for a notification that warns the user if a boat should be returned to port soon due to attrition, or have a setting that says "auto-return when cohesion falls below 50 or 25% or something along with a notification that the unit has returned to port.

I'm sure I'll be able to think of more that I've run into in the coming days.

Although I completely understand your concern, I think that the little details of each decision (or a unit if you want) belongs to a Wiki.
Just taking an example here, look at SWTOR:
http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic_Wiki
Yes, that's a completely different game, but it serves the purpose of the example. That game has advanced a lot since it was released and so if you look at the details of the manual on the day of the release, you can clearly burn it because it will be more useful that way . So, what can be done to overcome all these constant changes?... make a wiki like the one I showed you.
In there, you can list all the details you want.. and you or anyone can keep them up to date when a new change is introduced in a patch.
Nowadays, sadly for us that loved to read the big manuals of old games, the content of each game is in constant change, and many times, it is not exclusively because of bugs, many times it is because some value got "adapted" to the players feedback... so, in the end, even if it was for a bug fix or a feedback change, we all get a better game.
So, I am not sure I can say "before it was better, when I could sit down and read a manual for two hours"

Oh, by the way, I used a Wiki from Wikia because AFAIK it is "free" to create one...

[jedarob]

Basic game functionality should be updated, IMO. E.G., PBEM instructions still discuss TRN files.

Otherwise, great game. Can we get a downloadable, printable, CW II map?

[minipol]

There is only so much you can do with a small development team.
Complete manuals require very exhaustive work, and are almost always out of date.
A wiki is far easier to maintain and keep current.
Also, it allows the community to chip in.
Just my 2 cents.

[fred zeppelin]

There is only so much you can do with a small development team.
Complete manuals require very exhaustive work, and are almost always out of date.
A wiki is far easier to maintain and keep current.
Also, it allows the community to chip in.
Just my 2 cents.

One thing they could do to help themselves would be to release the database files necessary to allow us to correct the small errors that generate a big chunk of the bug reports. We could change leader and region names, leader stats, etc., if we just had access to the database files that control them behind the scenes.

One way for a small developer to keep up with the workload is to to offload some of the easiest tasks to the modding community.

[Keeler]

One thing they could do to help themselves would be to release the database files necessary to allow us to correct the small errors that generate a big chunk of the bug reports. We could change leader and region names, leader stats, etc., if we just had access to the database files that control them behind the scenes.

One way for a small developer to keep up with the workload is to to offload some of the easiest tasks to the modding community.

I can't post the link for some reason, but it's in the mod forum.

Will the database files be released for modding and/or scenario creation?
I'm waiting to pull the trigger on ACW2 until I know.

They will for sure, but not until we are totally pleased with the current game content and status. We usually wait a bit till the product has reached a certain level of maturity before doing so..

[Ace]

One thing they could do to help themselves would be to release the database files necessary to allow us to correct the small errors that generate a big chunk of the bug reports. We could change leader and region names, leader stats, etc., if we just had access to the database files that control them behind the scenes.

One way for a small developer to keep up with the workload is to to offload some of the easiest tasks to the modding community.

All database files except cw2.exe can be open with a notepad. Try opening events and models files, and you will find lots of things that can be modded.

[Ace]

I can't post the link for some reason, but it's in the mod forum.

You have to have some posts before you can post a link. Anti spam issue, I think.

[Captain_Orso]

I can't post the link for some reason, but it's in the mod forum.

There are a number of things you cannot do in the forum until you have posted at least, IIRC, 10 posts. This is to prevent SPAM-bots from creating an account and spamming the forum. Just a few more posts and you should be able to use all the forum's features

[Keeler]

There are a number of things you cannot do in the forum until you have posted at least, IIRC, 10 posts. This is to prevent SPAM-bots from creating an account and spamming the forum. Just a few more posts and you should be able to use all the forum's features

You have to have some posts before you can post a link. Anti spam issue, I think.

I figured it out after remembering this is a replacement account for an older, lost one. Thanks though.

[fred zeppelin]

All database files except cw2.exe can be open with a notepad. Try opening events and models files, and you will find lots of things that can be modded.

I've tried editing various of the files but the changes don't show up in the game. For example, in AACW, you could change a general's abilities or traits by editing the Alias files. Or easily change the name of a region just by editing the appropriate Region file. Neither seems to work with CW2 - there apparently is some hidden file (or some new dependency) that controls. When CW2 was released, for instance, Stonewall Jackson's stats were messed up but they couldn't be fixed without a patch. In AACW, they would have been easy to fix.

It may be that I'm going about it the wrong way, that I'm missing some files somewhere that override the others. But it is clear that what worked in AACW doesn't work here. It seems like the CW2 file structure is more closed than AACW. I've asked several times in posts here whether various things are moddable - the name of a region for example - but I never get a response. So either those things aren't moddable or the word isn't getting out. Either way, small bugs that seemingly should be easy to fix are left on the already-full plate of the developers.

In either case, the developers could help themselves by either (a) releasing any hidden data files or (b) taking a few minutes to explain how to help us help them. If the ability to fix things is already there, and it's just a matter of telling folks how to do it, then they really are missing an opportunity to get some help.

[Gen.DixonS.Miles]

I've tried editing various of the files but the changes don't show up in the game. For example, in AACW, you could change a general's abilities or traits by editing the Alias files. Or easily change the name of a region just by editing the appropriate Region file. Neither seems to work with CW2 - there apparently is some hidden file (or some new dependency) that controls. When CW2 was released, for instance, Stonewall Jackson's stats were messed up but they couldn't be fixed without a patch. In AACW, they would have been easy to fix.

It may be that I'm going about it the wrong way, that I'm missing some files somewhere that override the others. But it is clear that what worked in AACW doesn't work here. It seems like the CW2 file structure is more closed than AACW. I've asked several times in posts here whether various things are moddable - the name of a region for example - but I never get a response. So either those things aren't moddable or the word isn't getting out. Either way, small bugs that seemingly should be easy to fix are left on the already-full plate of the developers.

In either case, the developers could help themselves by either (a) releasing any hidden data files or (b) taking a few minutes to explain how to help us help them. If the ability to fix things is already there, and it's just a matter of telling folks how to do it, then they really are missing an opportunity to get some help.

YES! I agree, this would help adding in new scenarios and mods to the games (Something I'm currently aiming to do)

[fred zeppelin]

All database files except cw2.exe can be open with a notepad. Try opening events and models files, and you will find lots of things that can be modded.

Ace

Are you speaking from experience with CW2 or past work with AACW? There are several things in CW2 that look like they ought to be moddable - it looks like the files are there and can be edited - but I've actually found few things, apart from graphics files, that really can be changed. Certainly, you can't just edit an Alias or Region file and have it show up in the game like you could in AACW. There seems to be some other dependency somewhere at overrides the usual data files.

Can you give me some examples of what sorts do things can be modded in CW2? And maybe an example of how to do it? If I'm missing something, I'd love to be corrected.

Thanks.

[Ace]

I was not actually modding model files. I was speaking about scenario event files.
I will try to mod general stats and will report it in a minute.
Stay tuned.

EDIT:
Apparently, general stats cannnot be changed within *.mdl files. They appear stored in alias files which reads from somewhere else, I do not know from where.

[fred zeppelin]

EDIT:
Apparently, general stats cannnot be changed within *.mdl files. They appear stored in alias files which reads from somewhere else, I do not know from where.

It's the same with Region names. There must be a set of hidden files somewhere that override the data files we can see. Very different system than AACW - although the apparent file structure is the same. Odd.

Any word from the devs on this?