Confederate Tactics

[jstu9]

First post in awhile. I am playing the Confederates for the very first time (in AACW or CW2) and enjoying it. I feel like I kinda know a number of things but I have never felt all that great at tactics.

First any general tactic tips for the Confederates would be very appreciated. But I am in a situation now (late Dec '61) and I'm trying to figure out the best approach.



I originally had more spread out forces between Manassas and HF (one army in each) with a brigade holding Leesburg. I took Fredericktown with Jackson and took Alexandria. As the Union retreated and starting building up DC, I moved much of my strength to Alexandria. But McDowell with ~1500 power moved into Leesburg. I moved Jackson back to HF but McDowell attacked and has pushed Jackson to retreat to Winchester.

So, I am trying to figure out what to do next. I know I probably need to win this war in the next 8-9 months before the North overwhelms me. But between McDowell and Butler there they are stronger. I thought about taking one of my armies and attacking McDowell but McDowell's cohesion hasn't dropped that much yet. My concern is if I attack McDowell, Banks will attack Alexandria.

I was thinking about having Jackson attack Tyler in Gettysburg or move over to take Baltimore but I need to deal with McDowell first.

I am trying to buy in as many troops as I can, but WS was a limiting factor early on and now conscripts seem to be. I have a ~1500 power army in western Tenn and some troops in Kentucky. i thought about trying to brings some of those over but then Grant and friends overwhelm me in the West.

Any ideas?

[grimjaw]

I assume you are not playing a PBEM, otherwise I might advise different things.

You shouldn't need that many troops to defend Alexandria, even with the force that Butler commands. With artillery in the Alexandria fortifications and either PTG's or Johnston's stack entrenched in the region and outside the city, an attack across the Potomac by Butler would be suicidal on Athena's part. With some pontoons and a couple of supply wagons, move one of those stacks (I'd say Johnston's) to Montgomery, MD, and entrench it. If you have some spare cavalry, move it farther north into Fredericktown or Carroll, MD, and cut the rail line. Between those two things, and the fact that rail in Baltimore is also cut, you have effectively isolated DC and pose a serious threat. McDowell won't be able to get there quickly (no rail, multiple rivers to cross in harsh weather).

Don't mimic the mistakes that your opponent is making. With all your forces in Alexandria on the opposite side of the Potomac, you pose little danger. In January he'll be able to start building the forces that prevent you from having this kind of chance in later years.

Let McDowell have Harper's Ferry and have Jackson fall back to Winchester and entrench. If possible, gather some reinforcements for Jackson at Strasburg and have them start entrenching *outside* the city. Harper's is rather useless to McDowell from what I can see in your screenshot. The rail line to WV is cut and you control Fredericktown, MD. The Union will have to devote forces to repairing rail and take Fredericktown back. With the time of year and the weather issues, the closest force to do all that is McDowell's. It can't be everywhere at once. If it divides and leaves smaller portions, Jackson can pounce on them. If McDowell's stack remains intact, Jackson can outmaneuver him almost anytime. If McDowell pursues Jackson to Winchester, all the better. Have Jackson retreat to the entrenched reinforcements you deploy at Strasburg.

I don't know what force you have in the city at Manassas. Is something available there to threaten Leesburg? That's a luxury, really. You don't have enough forces in the region to defend all the regions surrounding Manassas. But anything that will tie up McDowell is useful. A single infantry element that took Leesburg and convinced your opponent to weaken McDowell's stack by dividing or distracting it is in your interest.

The threat I'd watch for is my rail line to quick reinforcements. Manassas is easily besieged since you have no troops outside the city. If I had the forces, I might entrench a force at Clarke, VA, but what I can see on the board I wouldn't try.

[jstu9]

Thanks for the post. Just playing 'ol Athena.

So, I understand river crossing is tough, but why would a ~4500 stack against an entrenched ~2000 stack lose? I guess I just want to better understand the mechanics of defense since as the Union in the past, I'm pretty much just attacking. And in the past if I was ~double the power, I'd pretty much win even crossing rivers.

Not exactly what you suggest but it made me think of a question I've had. Any time i have tried cavalry divisions, they seem to just run out of supply, and get beat up on whatever garrison I might be attacking. Maybe I'm just not using them right, but for example I have Shelby now and not sure the best way to use him. And I assume Forrest and Stuart shouldn't be far behind.

I have a division under Huger in Manassas. I left a force there while I attacked Alexandria as a reserve and keep the entrenchment.

[ArmChairGeneral]

You are in a strong position, and I agree with grimjaw that Athena is distracting herself at Harper's Ferry by splitting her forces, so you must be active to take advantage of this and not simply cede HF.

DC is very vulnerable here. Out of his 4300 PWR, at least 1000 are volunteers who are locked in place, preventing Athena from organizing them into Divisions until you attack them. A lot of that 4300 is also going to be inside the structure (or is tied up in relatively useless but high-PWR Fort and Coastal Batteries), and will probably not end up joining a battle that occurs in the region. So you would be looking at 2500 to 3000 PWR effective. If you could bring both PGT and JoJo's stacks to bear on DC, you stand a solid chance of being able to kick the region stack(s) out and lay siege to the city. Since it is blockaded by guns in the Alexandria Redoubt and cut off by your ground forces, the defenders in the city will not be able to replace hits, and you can wait a couple of turns to heal, Assault, heal a few turns, Assault, and finally win. You will have to buy a lot of replacements for a few turns to recover those hits, but yours get into the field at a faster rate, giving you a window of advantage where you have healed and Athena has not.

You are right on the edge of having enough juice to pull this off. If you could scrape together more troops, that would be great, but you should go ahead and move one of those Army stacks to either Montgomery or Port Tobacco. In Montgomery you can build a stockade which will exert ZOC on the rail regions between DC and HF and position you to either cut off McDowell or directly attack DC by land when the time is right. In Port Tobacco you have similar opportunities to attack DC, and you can use a flatboat to build a depot. Montgomery might give you some opportunities to surround and destroy McDowell, but risks getting caught across the river if McDowell can extricate himself into a more useful position or if stacks materialize from points north. Port Tobacco does not give you the same opportunities against McDowell as Montgomery does, but it will be harder for Athena to interfere with your build-up.

Use PGT's Army stack to take either forward position and leave JoJo entrenched in Alexandria to hold the region. JoJo will need ~1200 PWR, plus a token force in the Redoubt in case JoJo is forced to retreat. This will hold off anything McDowell can get up to, and is more than enough to hold against an attack coming from DC. In fact, an attack from DC is exactly what you want, since it will probably fail, and even if it doesn't the Union will take hideous casualties and leave half of the DC stack out of position to help against PGT's 2500-3000 PWR stack waiting to pounce on DC.

Swing Jackson south to Winchester and then East to Manassas to join the entrenchments there to guard your supply line from Richmond. Keep something in the structure there so that McDowell cannot take the depot in one turn if Jackson retreats. If McDowell goes for Manassas he will be cut off from supplies and easily surrounded as long as he cannot actually capture the depot. (If he gets the depot, you may have some serious problems, however.) ~500 Pwr entrenched in the region and another couple of brigades in the structure should secure your back door against shenanigans.

Huger is wasted as a garrison commander. He has terrible stats, and his Artillerist ability applies to all elements in his stack whether he is in command or not, so putting him in either of the two Army stacks (I am assuming JoJo is an Army) will be much more effective. Your call on whether you want him with the larger forward stack, or whether you want him with JoJo. If Athena does somehow attack Alexandria, entrenched artillery using defensive Firepower stats under JoJo with an Artillerist will inflict a lot of casualties.

[jstu9]

Thank you Armchair, that actually helps.

I have played it to early Oct '62 now. And I made a costly decision.

I was able to push McDowell back, eventually capturing Baltimore. It was September, I had Lee's AoNV in Montgomery, Jackson's Corp in Baltimore and Beauregard in Alexandria (Johnston is in Manassas trying to build up a new army). Athena had been juggling forces between Washington and Arlington. It's September and I see Washington now has a PWR of ~4500, the lowest I'd seen it since the above screenshot. I wasn't ready, my forces were a bit scattered. But Winter is Coming. And the North has too much to wait any longer.

I attacked with all 3 armies (of course not really synchronized). Lee got destroyed (went from ~3700 PWR to ~500), Beauregard from ~1600 to ~600. And Jackson never got in the action though he reached the region. Not sure why he didn't attack. I was hoping a fresh Jackson against a tired Union might do well. I say 'what the hell' and attack with Jackson (~3700) next turn. Crushed. Over the 2 turns, i lost ~40+k men and 13 NM.

Butler had 100,000+ men in DC. (Both turns showed 4100-4500 pwr in DC. I was wondering if there was any mtsg) Is there anything I could have done to actually eventually win this?

[ArmChairGeneral]

Unfortunately that is not a lot to go on in terms of figuring out what happened, but I will make a stab at it with a bunch of guesses.

First,
Make sure all three formations were part of the same Army, i.e. Beauregard in Alexandria is a Corps Commander in the AoNV? If he is an Army stack, he will only MTSG for Corps attached to him, not friendly Armies and their associated Corps.

Second,

I attacked with all 3 armies (of course not really synchronized).

This could easily account for the result. At least two of the Corps (they better not have all been Armies or they can't MTSG each other!) need to have been marching from the same region and under "synchronized" orders so that they arrive on the same day. They can then both target enemy stacks (possibly the same one) and a large battle will commence with both Corps involved in the first round and any MTSGers coming in on the second and later rounds. If for whatever reason, they arrive on different days, they initiate battle on their own, as per your Offensive orders, but have to fight it by themselves and possibly be overwhelmed. They may or may not MTSG each other in this case, but even if they do, it is definitely better to have everyone together and able to act in the first, most important, round of the battle compared to entering in later rounds via MTSG. A stack that cannot synchronize movement to arrive on the same day should instead be optimized to MTSG: being or supporting an Army stack, being set to Offensive posture, having a commander with a high strategic rating (not sure this counts now that I think on it) and with Fast Movers and Pontoons (anything that decreases marching time increases MTSG chances).

In general, you want to stick to the principle of troop concentration, but you are constrained by CPs. In a perfect world every brigade will be in a maxed out division, and every division would be stuffed into one mega powered stack. In practice a Corps or Army stack can contain four to six divisions, not all of which are perfectly full. Since you need more than six to fight the giant battles the trick is to coordinate pairs and trios of stacks this size to enter battles with each other in the most advantageous ways. This takes a bit of practice, and is tricky by design, but once you are good at it you will crush the AI regularly, since she isn't very good at it either.

Third,

If Butler had 100,000 men then there must have been another Union Corps that MTSGd from somewhere. To find out where they came from and to better understand what else went wrong, do a little log and Battle Screen forensics.

Go to the log and locate the first battle in question. Take note of what is listed around it like "Jackson's Corps committed in Prince George, MD" and how many hits we took in retreat. Click on the sword icon to bring up the Battle Screen. Take a look at the row of enemy generals, and match them up with the divisions they command. Count how many divisions they have, and compare it to how many you have. For really big battles you need to scroll down to see them all. Note which took the most hits on both sides.

Now click the circled letter in the upper left corner and you can then see what happened on each turn. MTSG forces cannot participate until the second turn. Examine the Union forces in the battle on turn one and compare them to turn two. The new divisions (who you will note take all the hits while the forces from the first round seem to sit out the round) are MTSGers. Check out who those leaders are and see if you can remember/spot them on the map as clues to where they might have come from, and count how many divisions they have. I am guessing Annapolis from what you have said, but without a screenshot....

Also take note of which, if any, of your own forces MTSGed, and how this affected the course of the battle.

Observe that in most battles (it sounds like you have three to look at) the hits (hearts) taken by each side in the first round are noticeably higher than in later rounds. This is because during the first round elements get to fire an extra shot at each range permitted by the terrain/weather, whereas the second and later rounds only have Range 1 and Assault Phase. Take a look at the entrenchment level the opponents had and look for movement penalty icons for your guys like river crossings. Also note the number of units and elements that participated in each round.

When analyzing battle screens it is important to bear in mind that the unit of measure the game engine uses is hits (hearts). Assess casualties based on hearts, not PWR, which takes cohesion into account, or the number of "men" lost which is for flavor only and can be misleading. Count relative force size by comparing the number of divisions on each side (noting that some divisions are only half-sized) rather than totalling up the number of hearts or going by the "men."

Try to form a judgement on what went wrong overall. Did everyone MTSG like they were supposed to? Did fighting three separate battles mean you were defeated in detail? Where did everyone retreat to, where did his supporting corps come from, etc.?

I, for one, would not judge you if you took this turn back. You have invested a lot of time into this game and have gotten pretty good at it, but unfortunately the slow build up in the Grand Campaigns does not give players a lot of experience to draw on when the complex and high stakes Corps vs Corps battles start to go down. This kind of blow could be crippling, and it will take a long time to start a new game and play it to this point. On the other hand, playing it out is instructive too, and you might find that you can still find a way to win. Either way, a good postmortem will inform your play going forward.

[jstu9]

Current situation: Early November 1862.


I assume it is too late to go back and check the reports or is there a way?

I thought about stopping and restarting but never thought about going back to do it again (of course I'm not sure how but I'm not sure I would anyways. I think I'll play it out for now. But going forward I'll try to pay more attention to the reports.

I should have spent a couple more turns getting Lee and Jackson in the same region and synchronized, maybe have Longstreet involved in as well. I know when I play this again, I'll be better ready for it.

But the above is the current situation. I was able to retreat Lee and Jackson back to Montgomery and PGT back to Alexandria (tho he eneded up in Manassas the last turn for some reason - must have mis-clicked). Johnston is collecting any new troops in Manassas I've built but really it's been all replacements the last few turns. I have... someone in the Alexandria redoubt (a fort guy) but with just one brigade. Longstreet is hanging out in Baltimore. He's just a division but is 3*. I'd like him to be a corps under Lee. The union had a couple ~1000 PWR stacks to the north, the remnants in York and gettysburg are still there. But they took Fredicktown before they left. So, I had some forces holding HF and Carroll but neither are particularly impressive forces. Stuart was roaming around looking at troops and cutting rail lines.

In the West, I've taken Cairo and moving onto St. Louis. Polk is holding Munfrosboro. The union has a corps in Louisville so I haven't attacked. I've lost Missouri.

I have 2 divisions in New Orleans, but have basically nothing anywhere else. I have lost Charleston and Savannah. Not sure how hard I should fight to get them back.

[Gray Fox]

I agree with ACG's analysis and would only add that the Union force was probably deeply entrenched by Oct.'62 which made the attack rather dicey at best.

The "best approach" is to do everything humanly possible to win as quickly as possible. Pick the earliest date when you can take D.C. and plan backwards from that point (for me that would be Oct. 1861). Have one stack with your best Army commander leading Divisions with your best remaining commanders, line infantry, best cavalry and artillery (and Huger!). This stack should have pontoons for crossing the Potomac in the shortest time because speed is critical. I usually have a 3400+ power stack ready to rock.

Since this is no longer possible, you need to regroup. Your forces are scattered. D.C. can be reinforced by Athena with sealift to Annapolis, so holding Baltimore is of no importance really. Take Annapolis and position enough artillery along the Potomac to stop any Union ships or supplies from getting through. Butler's 100k force probably needs 400+ GS each turn. Keep the pressure on and they should be eating cherry blossoms by the spring time. Good luck!

[ArmChairGeneral]

Yeah, Baltimore is almost always a bridge too far (to use a metaphor from a different war) unless you already have the game in hand. I'd say you are back to even right now, maybe losing a little because of the other theaters. The good news is that you can stabilize your position around DC and she won't be able to force a breakthrough for a while (hopefully she tries and breaks her teeth against your entrenchments). You want to burn/plunder/destroy anything you are planning on abandoning (Baltimore) and fall back a bit. Rein in Longstreet and shift leaders around so he can make a corps. Secure the valley from flanking moves by entrenching a two or three division Corps at Fredericktown and a smallish division in HF, and run some cavalry through Carol now and then to keep high MC and/or bust the rail to slow up anyone trying to threaten HF/Fredricktown. Look for opportunities to pounce on <1000 PWR stacks moving around in York, Gettysburg or Carol. Try to catch stacks that have just moved and haven't had time to entrench, and that are not able to be supported by MTSG from DC. Butler's stack is locked, but there may be other Corps there that are not and can still MTSG.

Savannah/Charleston is a tough call. On the one hand, they are top production cities, and you will suffer a long term resource pinch without them. On the other, it will take time and resources that might be better committed to the action around DC. Perhaps the second division in New Orleans could be diverted there, but the Union is winning on enough fronts that Athena may be able to dedicate an invasion force to NO, so this is somewhat risky.

If you decide to compete in KY/IN/OH, you will need to build units from the (very large) KY force pool in Bowling Green. Artillery are more cost effective than infantry, but you may need a whole nother division or two to take Louisville. If you do, the Union will probably crumble in this area turning you loose in the Midwestern rail-sea (which is loads of fun). This will divert resources from the East however, and you should probably focus on building up for another try at DC since taking it can get you the win outright.

I think your best bet is to regroup, hold your position at Montgomery in strength and wait until she makes a mistake, either through ill advised maneuvering or though failed attacks on your strong points. Make sure you have Corps or Army stacks in Alexandria, Montgomery and Fredericktown that can support each other, and that are positioned to strike at DC when the opportunity presents itself. Focus your builds on artillery rather than infantry, as these add more punch per resource to your stacks than infantry and usually don't require as many replacements after combat. Try to build the entire NC pool of artillery and move them up to your dedicated artillery divisions in the front-line Corps. Also, keep an eye on the three alternate routes to Richmond: up the Peninsula from Monroe, through Norfolk and Suffolk from Monroe, and the Covington/Stanton area directly West of Richmond. Before striking at DC get some eyeballs on Annapolis, since that is where MTSGers will likely come to support DC.

You really only want one Army around DC. If you have already put PGT or JoJo in command of Armies, move them to other theaters where they can do some good. Move one of them to KY to take over from ASJ/Polk, and send whoever you kick out to run things in New Orleans.

Fox's suggestion to hold Annapolis and blockade the Potomac to starve out Butler has merit, but I read somewhere that a lot of supplies are scripted into DC and Richmond (and other cities as well) each turn and I think these will enter play even if production is otherwise blockaded, so this may take a while. If you CAN starve them out, you will be able to cruise to an easy win once they start taking supply hits. I have never done this myself, so I can't say for sure, but if Fox says it is doable, then it probably is (he is the DC-taking expert around here).

To this end, keep that Coastal Artillery unit that is moving to Manassas inside the Redoubt at Alexandria, where it will bombard (and thus blockade) the harbor exit point for DC. Make sure not to have a leader in its stack, as it will not be able to bombard/blockade when he is inactive.

[ArmChairGeneral]

If you want to take back a turn, go to the menu, select Load, click on your current game, and then click on the microchip icon at the top right. You will then be able to erase, rename or take back a turn. You can take back several moves if you want by repeating this process, the save files include at least a few old turns (how many is determined by a slider in the options panel). If you take back a move, you are return to the point at which you pressed the next turn button, i.e. the old orders are already entered.

I forgot to mention in the last post that when you do finally attack DC again, the PWR numbers shown will be more accurate than the first time, since your previous attack unlocked all those free Volunteer brigades that will now be organized more effectively (to the extent that Athena can organize; it isn't her strong suit).

[jstu9]

Ok, up to Jan '63 and I'm trying to restructure and move lots of troops in the dead of winter. Joy.

I have abandoned Baltimore and Lee has just taken Annapolis. Captured a fort and a coastal (? iirc) battery. Should they be set to bombard? Do they do that automatically? Should they be put in the city? Or build a stockade? Or move them somewhere?

I have 6 divisions slowly moving across the snow from the west. Probably should have planned this better. I decided to pretty much pull back, I moved ASJ back to Columbus (KY or is it Tenn) and Polk to Bowling Green. I will try and entrench and hope for the best.

I have sent JJohnston to Atlanta. Somehow a union division popped up from nowhere and took Atlanta. I am assuming they riverined up from Savannah. McDowell is in the area as well now. I sent a division under Hood to push them out but that didn't work. Let's see if Johnston can do it. My general plan is to have Johnston play in the south for a couple months, hopefully clearing out Atlanta, Savannah and Charleston and then sending him off to NO. Then when all my divisions from the west reach Alexandria, have Beauregard head south wherever he is needed. Then hopefully there will be enough troops to have Lee (Army), Jackson (Corps), Longstreet (Corps) and the guy from the west (Johnson maybe) have a decent attack. Butler has ~8000 pwr in DC.

And no one mtsg when i attacked Annapolis. I put the coastal battery in the Alexandria redoubt. Pemberton is in there as well hanging out.

The weather, getting enough supply in certain places, travel times are just draining the weeks away as I try to maneuver these guys around.

[ArmChairGeneral]

Sounds like you will soon have enough to make a try at DC again when those six divisions arrive. Are you using rail movement for them? Snow won't be a problem if you do.

Artillery of any kind automatically bombards (and so the icon is greyed out) if they are in a fort (stockades, redoubts, coastal forts, whatever). If they are not in a fort but have a high enough entrenchment level they can be set to bombard manually, and the order will persist until you rescind it. If there is a General in command of the stack bombard actions are only allowed by that stack if he is active. Therefore, you want Coastal Artillery inside the redoubt at Alexandria, in a stack without a leader and set to Blue/Orange orders. It will automatically bombard anything it can and will blockade the Harbor in DC. Feel free to stack it with other Coastals or fort guns.

Norfolk is usually a good spot for captured Coastal Artillery.

The weather, getting enough supply in certain places, travel times are just draining the weeks away as I try to maneuver these guys around.

Quite. Sounds like you are getting the hang of things

[Gray Fox]

Things to remember when moving if you use attrition:

(From the Wiki)

"Supply Wagons shield friendly units from the effects of adverse weather by trading General Supply points over Attrition hits. One (1) Attrition hit is negated for every five (5) General Supply Points expended in this manner.
Supply Wagons reduce the effect of Attrition on Forces they accompany by 10%."

and

"Harsh Weather: A Force which lacks shelter (i.e. in a region without a structure) during Harsh weather (i.e. Snow, Frozen, and Blizzard) is subject to potentially severe attrition losses."

So try to move stacks that have a Supply Unit and end the move in a region with a structure.

[jstu9]

Current situation: Late April 1863


I have Jackson, Longstreet and Johnson as Corps in Montgomery. (Why can't you pick which army the Corps will go to? Somehow Jackson and Johnson are part of PGTB's army but I'm moving Lee to fix that (hopefully). Johnson's Corps as you can see is weak. I put the best units with Jackson and Longstreet. The coastal artillery from Annapolis are still making their way to Alexandria. Is there a faster way? I haven't done much with defense to the north since I'm building to assault. Athena hasn't even taken Baltimore back.

Either I take DC or I lose. Actually after having a NM ~90 after the huge loss, I have reversed that and am up close to 110, with Athena at ~90. Athena is pretty much just moving units around seemingly aimlessly. I'm playing Lieutenant difficulty.

I have ASJohnston with his army, pwr ~1500, in Columbus KY, moved Forney and his gutted Corps (~900) to Fort Henry and Polk is hanging out in Bowling Green (~1500). I have about ~1200 in NO and about ~1500 under Joe Johnston in Atlanta.

I wasn't sure how to starve DC out but logically it made sense to me to take the 2 ports at Port Tobacco and Leonardtown and took that small bit of land east of DC. I moved a frigate up to the Potomac though obviously its not enough to blockade the zone. I have the coastal artillery in the Alexandria redoubt.

Now...... the interesting thing is after I took this screenshot, I played the next turn...... and Butler's supply bar went down. Hopefully that is a sign that I'm about to starve him out, but we'll see.

[jstu9]

Sounds like you will soon have enough to make a try at DC again when those six divisions arrive. Are you using rail movement for them? Snow won't be a problem if you do.

Quite. Sounds like you are getting the hang of things

Well, *trying* to use rail movement. They got there eventually. There is such things as impassable zones due to weather? I think that happened. I couldn't rail through a zone for a turn. Then I had issues with having have a enough rail points. I've never run out of rail as the North but it seems to happen with the south. But moving a Corps west to east costs a lot.

Getting the hang of things very slowly. It's interesting how things start to make sense the more I play, and all the comments here have just cemented some of those things. Even though I kinda sorta know these things, the more I see it, the more it makes sense.

[DrPostman]

Very Harsh Weather blocks all movement, even rail.

[Gray Fox]

I tried to recreate your blockade of D. C. and I found that the defenders were getting only 117 GS per turn. That would feed less than 4 Divisions. The rest starve.

[minipol]

Nice encirclement. They should indeed start starving.

[jstu9]

Very Harsh Weather blocks all movement, even rail.

Ah! That explains it more than likely.

I tried to recreate your blockade of D. C. and I found that the defenders were getting only 117 GS per turn. That would feed less than 4 Divisions. The rest starve.

Out of curiousity, where is that 117 GS coming from? I'm assuming from controlled regions nearby? As in gettysburg, York, Lancaster, Chestertown and Cambridge?

[Rod Smart]

Current situation: Late April 1863


I have Jackson, Longstreet and Johnson as Corps in Montgomery. (Why can't you pick which army the Corps will go to? Somehow Jackson and Johnson are part of PGTB's army but I'm moving Lee to fix that (hopefully). Johnson's Corps as you can see is weak. I put the best units with Jackson and Longstreet. The coastal artillery from Annapolis are still making their way to Alexandria. Is there a faster way? I haven't done much with defense to the north since I'm building to assault. Athena hasn't even taken Baltimore back.

Either I take DC or I lose. Actually after having a NM ~90 after the huge loss, I have reversed that and am up close to 110, with Athena at ~90. Athena is pretty much just moving units around seemingly aimlessly. I'm playing Lieutenant difficulty.

I have ASJohnston with his army, pwr ~1500, in Columbus KY, moved Forney and his gutted Corps (~900) to Fort Henry and Polk is hanging out in Bowling Green (~1500). I have about ~1200 in NO and about ~1500 under Joe Johnston in Atlanta.

I wasn't sure how to starve DC out but logically it made sense to me to take the 2 ports at Port Tobacco and Leonardtown and took that small bit of land east of DC. I moved a frigate up to the Potomac though obviously its not enough to blockade the zone. I have the coastal artillery in the Alexandria redoubt.

Now...... the interesting thing is after I took this screenshot, I played the next turn...... and Butler's supply bar went down. Hopefully that is a sign that I'm about to starve him out, but we'll see.

The smart thing to do would be to sit there and starve out DC.


The fun thing to do would be to take Lee's 3,500 power stack and go take DE/Philly/NJ/NY.

[ArmChairGeneral]

The 117 is probably coming from native structure production, which is only blocked by putting the structures under siege, IIRC.

[Gray Fox]

Since D.C. is encircled, the supply can only come from Prince George MD.

If you put the cursor over the map icon for the capital and press Control and left click together, then at the bottom of the screen you get a menu of all the structures in the city. Each structure has a menu of what it produces, i.e, WS, money, GS, etc. You can add them up to get a total. As ACG posted earlier, the capitals get extra supplies, perhaps depending on the difficulty level. Loyalty and other factors affect this as well. As one example, since Prince George is blockaded by your forces, the harbor should not produce supply. Also, when under siege, a structure only produces half as much supply.

http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Supply

[Captain_Orso]

You guys are not paying attention to the difference between -blocking supply- and blockading.

There are two different things that can happen in and around Washington D.C. to give Butler supplies:
1. They can be transported (supply distribution - 3 distribution phases at the start of the execution of each turn) from elsewhere.
2. They can be produced in Washington D.C. itself.

To block supply from being distributed through a region you need >=1 unopposed combat element in that region. If the enemy has >=1 combat element opposing your forces in a region, supply will get through. This includes water regions.

Blockading is an action against the resource production of a city region with a harbor and is conducted by blockading--posting naval combat elements, not in PP, without movement orders--in all of the region's harbor-exit-points. This is called Brown Water Blockading, even if the city is on the Atlantic or Gulf Coast. If a city does not have a harbor, there is no way to blockade the city. But practically all major cities have a harbor.

You generally need 8 naval combat elements to blockade an harbor exit-point. If the enemy can bombard into an exit-point the number goes up by 4 to 12 naval combat elements; if you can bombard into an exit-point the number goes down to 8 or 4. Enemy naval combat elements in the harbor exit-point region can also affect this, but I don't remember the specifics at the moment. It is possible to blockade a city and the city still gets supplies transported to it; see above.

If all the harbor exit-points of a city are blockaded, the city will produce 50% less of all resources.

--

So in the example from the previous posts, I suspect that no supplies are beind transported to Washington D.C., but since the harbor exit-point is not Brown-Water-Blockaded, Washington will still produce at full capacity.

[Gray Fox]

The picture indicates that Prince George is indeed blockaded (the icon is partially obscured by the Confederate frigate's posture icons). The only resource I was concerned with was supply to Butler's army, so that's the effect I mentioned.

[Captain_Orso]

The 117 is probably coming from native structure production, which is only blocked by putting the structures under siege, IIRC.

That would be news to me.

AFAIK the only things which affect production are:
- Blockading, Brown and Blue Water,
- Loyalty,
- NM

I believe that's it.

Since D.C. is encircled, the supply can only come from Prince George MD.

If you put the cursor over the map icon for the capital and right click, then at the bottom of the screen you get a menu of all the structures in the city. Each structure has a menu of what it produces, i.e, WS, money, GS, etc. You can add them up to get a total. As ACG posted earlier, the capitals get extra supplies, perhaps depending on the difficulty level. Loyalty and other factors affect this as well. As one example, since Prince George is blockaded by your forces, the harbor should not produce supply. Also, when under siege, a structure only produces half as much supply.

http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Supply

IIRC the tool-tips of the structures themselves show the nominal production values, e.g. an Iron Mill produces 10 WSU. The region's tool-tip only tells you the generic production, which is determined by city size, loyalty, etc. But the tool-tip of the first structure icon show the current production of all of the structures of the region. I believe this is in the update notes of the patches.

Edit: Correction: The first structure's tool-tip (the first structure is always the city structure) shows the "innate" supply production, which is what the region produces beyond the other structures, such as Armories, Barracks, etc.

[jstu9]

So the coastal artillery in the Alexandria redoubt only helps with brown water blockading? Because aside from those guns, the harbor in dc is not brown water blockaded. I have one ship with 2 elements there and that's it. It's not blockaded.

But an above post seems to say having that ship there blocks supply. Right?

So am I right in saying the city is NOT blockaded but also is not getting supply anywhere else but it's own region? So if I moved the ship would the harbor start functioning or do the guns prevent it?

[ArmChairGeneral]

The bombard from the guns should be interdicting supply flow along the river, as will your fleet. They are not enough to Brown Block the harbor and thus the city will still produce supplies on its own, but it is not getting any from the rest of the map because you have all the potential routes covered with unopposed units or bombarded by artillery in a Fort. The Alexandria redoubt will stop supply flow without your ship.

Orso,
I am basing this on my recent experiences in Vicksburg in the 1863 scenario. At one point Vicksburg stopped producing supplies completely for several turns, nearly starving an entire Army operating in the region. I could not figure out what was going on, until I noticed that there was 5% Union MC there. Poking around revealed a Union stack that I had beaten in the region several turns earlier that never exited the region, and was hidden under the mess of stacks that I had in Vicksburg so I did not notice it. When I set to Offensive posture and kicked it out, supply production returned to normal. I did not specifically see the Siege icon, since it was covered up by my stacks, but I can't think of any other explanation as to why I wasn't producing supply those turns. I will look into this more, and see if I can't reproduce it in the next game I am able to play.

Also, if a fort cannot blockade on its own, how come Richmond is blockaded at game start? I thought it was because of Ft. Monroe.

[Captain_Orso]

So the coastal artillery in the Alexandria redoubt only helps with brown water blockading?

If it is able to bombard, it can influence a Brown Water Blockade.

Because aside from those guns, the harbor in dc is not brown water blockaded.

Then, Washington will produce normally.

I have one ship with 2 elements there and that's it. It's not blockaded.

If you have one unit with two elements in the Potomac River region, even with artillery in Alexandria, it will not be enough to blockade Washington. Hold your mouse pointer over the Potomac River region to get the tool-tip, which will tell you how many naval combat elements you need to blockade harbors from that region.

But an above post seems to say having that ship there blocks supply. Right?

If there are no Union combat ships in the Potomac River region, your frigate unit will block supply from entering the region. For example, if Falmouth were in Union hands with a depot and there were no artillery which could bombard into the Potomac River region and the Lower Potomac River region and the Union had enough points in its RivTP, then during supply distribution supply could move from the Falmouth depot through Lower Potomac River, Potomac River and into Washington. A single naval combat element in the Potomac River region would block that supply movement, as well a being able to bombard into that region would block it.

However, if Alexandria with a depot were in Union hands supply could move over the Potomac River region the same as units can. In that case the River Crossing rules apply and each naval combat element you have in the Potomac River region will have a 23% chance of blocking supply from crossing the Potomac River region to reach Washington up to a maximum of 90%, which you would reach with 4 naval combat elements. Since there are 3 supply distribution phases at the start of each turn there would be 3x a 10% chance of supply reaching Washington from Alexandria.

So am I right in saying the city is NOT blockaded but also is not getting supply anywhere else but it's own region?

Correct.

So if I moved the ship would the harbor start functioning or do the guns prevent it?

If the artillery in Alexandria or Charles MD (Port Tobacco) can bombard and are set to bombard, then supply could not pass through the Potomac River region to reach Washington.

[Captain_Orso]

8<
Orso,
I am basing this on my recent experiences in Vicksburg in the 1863 scenario. At one point Vicksburg stopped producing supplies completely for several turns, nearly starving an entire Army operating in the region. I could not figure out what was going on, until I noticed that there was 5% Union MC there. Poking around revealed a Union stack that I had beaten in the region several turns earlier that never exited the region, and was hidden under the mess of stacks that I had in Vicksburg so I did not notice it. When I set to Offensive posture and kicked it out, supply production returned to normal. I did not specifically see the Siege icon, since it was covered up by my stacks, but I can't think of any other explanation as to why I wasn't producing supply those turns. I will look into this more, and see if I can't reproduce it in the next game I am able to play.

That's interesting. I'll have to take a closer look at that. Thanks for the tip

Also, if a fort cannot blockade on its own, how come Richmond is blockaded at game start? I thought it was because of Ft. Monroe.

Richmond can be distance-blockaded from Hampton Roads--the water region around Fort Monroe, not the fallaciously named city in James City VA. Also at the very start of the April Campaign when the cities which are affected by the Blue Water Blockade are assigned by script it may trigger the icon for that turn.

[jstu9]

Ok, I have played 3-4 more turns.

Butler's supply dropped to 80-90% one turn and then the next it went to maybe 60%. But the last couple of turns it is back to full 100%.

Either 1) I'm missing something, 2) they somehow slipped some ships through with supply maybe or 3) and I'm thinking maybe the lost likely is they just bought a bunch of supply wagons?