What do you think of the AI in patch 1.04? How can I make it harder?

[tripax]

I'm a union player and I'm having a bit of trouble since the patch. I don't know if I've gotten better, but somehow I'm now beating Athena in late 1862 every game (three games now, the first in Late Dec 1862, second in Early Dec 1862, third in Early Nov 1862). I'm wondering how I can make the game a bit harder.

First, the good things. Things are much harder in the West compared to before. I used to be able to take Springfield fairly quickly. Now by mid 1862 I can take it, but I am taking it undefended because most of the action is in Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee, which seems right. On the other hand, I can only keep small garrisons in Missouri supplied because she seems to be raiding well (better than I ever manage). Athena's raiding in Kentucky seems better done, sometimes with force and sometimes not. She rarely goes after Northern Indiana or Illinois, which keeps her better supplied. She seems to neutralize my march down the Mississippi and I have a hard time securing my rear in Kentucky.

In West Virginia, things are ok. One issue is that, even without an increase in her detection, mixed loyalty in West Virginia means she sees Wheeling, Pittsburg, and Northern Ohio as attainable (since they are minimally defended) and sends a force up. It isn't hard to bottle this up, in my first game I captured a force holed up in Detroit, in the second I caught it a bit earlier, in Toledo. In the third I stopped it before it got into northern West Virginia.

In Virginia, I'm finding things a bit easy. I feel like I'm playing checkers against a child. I just keep moving forces forward. Garrison lightly, and don't attack an entrenched force without great superiority in numbers. Generally Athena abandons Manassas and I can march down to Culpepper in early 1862. By summer 1862 she opens up a path to Richmond, either along the York-James Peninsula or through the Wilderness. When I get to Richmond, it is lightly defended and falls in five turns or so.

I feel like Athena splits her forces a bit too much, especially in Virginia. She doesn't create divisions enough (does she need more generals?). She doesn't use corps/MTSG very effectively, again especially in Virginia. It doesn't feel like she understands that if she looses Richmond, the NM hit is so large that even if the game doesn't end her production capability is so crippled that she has no chance unless she has very strong defensive forces that can survive while her NM recovers (which she doesn't). To me, a CSA Athena that plays to not lose rather than to win would be a bit more fun.

So I have two questions. First, I've tried to explain what I see as good and bad with the current system; I'm curious what can be done to help AGEOD improve the AI?

Second, what can I do, short of modding (which I plan to try) to lengthen the game as Union against Athena that will be fun? I'm now trying a game with aggressiveness, activation, and detection all the way down to try to force Athena to turtle more - while I continue try to play my advantage more slowly in Virginia.

[Pocus]

short of modding, that will be difficult to improve her without dozens if not hundreds of additional hours diving into the code.

Now, as for modding, adding AI agents like in EAW or having the RGD played intelligently because they are parametrized for the AI (again done in EAW) and you'll probably see a very significant boost in her capacity.

[tripax]

[...]
Now, as for modding, adding AI agents like in EAW or having the RGD played intelligently because they are parametrized for the AI (again done in EAW) and you'll probably see a very significant boost in her capacity.

What are AI agents? I'm sure I know what is meant but not by this name?

[Jagger2013]

Here is the wiki section on AI modding. Looks like about 25 commands available. It would be nice to see a high level, general summary of how the AI makes decisions. AI starts at point A and works to point Z. Maybe a concept summary with a very general example.

http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Category:AI_Modding

[pgr]

Personally, as a Union player against Athena, I think she tends to play better with a lower aggressiveness rating. On high aggression, she tends to go-a-raiding without much regard to guarding places like Richmond. I would play with the aggression settings and detection bonus.

My particular beef with the AI, is that in Va, the the AI CSA consistently shifts forces into the Vally (Harper's Ferry, Winchester area), and then from there tries to go into West VA or Pennsylvania while simply abandoning Mananas. It would be nice to have a focus on that little zone. (And I wonder if the VP concentration tends to draw her up there. Manasas and Fredericksburg, the direct route to Richmond, are not VP locations and perhaps that is why the AI seems to forget about em?)

[Captain_Orso]

I think that's probably the reason; that locations in the Shenandoah are worth more NM/VP.

Manassas is basically only interesting for the South in 2 cases:
1. She's using as a supply base to attack Washington or up the Monocacy River (Frederick, MD).
2. She's denying it from the North or attacking it to cut supplies going South, although once the North has Fredericksburg, Manassas can be ignored except as a transit area. Navel supply will keep Fredericksburg fed even if Manassas is captured or her depot destroyed.

Harpers Ferry alone is more important in a number of ways. It blocks the B&O rail line into West Virginia. It's a great kick-off point for invading the North. It's worth VP's and has some industry. The whole valley is basically worth lots of resources and VP's for the South.

[pgr]

Harpers Ferry alone is more important in a number of ways. It blocks the B&O rail line into West Virginia. It's a great kick-off point for invading the North. It's worth VP's and has some industry. The whole valley is basically worth lots of resources and VP's for the South.

You are right about the Valley being important economically (I would throw in the farm province at the very bottom). Tactically though, its a bit of a trap if one is way up around HF. It is pretty simple for a Union force to get in between the CSA armies and Richmond.

If I was trying to mod, I think I would move the VP in Winchester to Fredericksburg. That would keep the action more along the Rappahannock line. It jives historically, and it would make taking Richmond a bit more challenging. (Plus it seems simpler than wading into the AI behavior code )

I'm assuming swapping Winchester for Fred-burg would be pretty simple to do right?

[pgr]

2. She's denying it from the North or attacking it to cut supplies going South, although once the North has Fredericksburg, Manassas can be ignored except as a transit area. Navel supply will keep Fredericksburg fed even if Manassas is captured or her depot destroyed.

I'm assuming this is if the Union holds the port in Falmoth. We are talking about naval box supply, right? (Which is only from port to port, and Fredericksburg has no port...it is as if I learned something from this supply discussion!)

[Captain_Orso]

Oh, true. I think I was trying to forget about that .

I haven't look in a while, but in AACW we had Aquia Creek Landing in Stafford. Then Falmouth Harbor got dropped into Stafford too, which allowed boats and ships to sail directly between the Rappahannock and Potomac Rivers. But even without Stafford I've held Fredericksburg throughout an entire winter, because the South failed to close off the Rappahannock River. You don't need a harbor to have supplies use riverine transport to your destination city. However, it might help, but I'm not entirely sure.

Anyway, for the Union, Manassas is important for its transportation junction. Not absolutely necessary for supply, but for moving troops.

[ohms_law]

Manassas and Fredricksburg are important to the Confederacy in order to maintain a defensive line to keep the Union out of the Virginia interior.
Athena should be taught that, somehow. If things are moving around in Northern Virginia, then the Confederacy is probably in trouble.

Also, It's OK to raid, or even go on the offensive, into West Virginia or Pennsylvania... if the defensive line along the Potomac is set up (preferably through, but around Alexandria is acceptable).

[Captain_Orso]

I think the first question is, does the AI have Strategic and Tactical Interests?

Strategic Interests would be locations giving VP's or cause NM loss when taken.

Tactical Interests would be important defensive location that might get weighted slightly higher like the Rappahannock-Rapidan line, but don't hold any otherwise strategic importance.

I'd kind of hope the Athena would recognize that defending behind a river is better than in front, or maybe even the limits of supply lines, where a break would be bad for an advancing force.

What you don't want is the importance of Fredericksburg being cranked up and then Athena sitting there defending it to the last, while Bo' Yankee marches down to Charlettesville and takes a left to Albuquerque ...

... I mean Richmond