Depot Build

[yardmaster]

I hope I am posting this in the correct place. I purchased the game recently and am confused with what seems to be an inconsistency between what is contained in the manual and what actually happens in the game. The manual states that a depot is built by expending two supply unit wagons--although in some places it seems to simply say two supply wagons. As I have started to play the game, however, the build depot button is active with only one supply unit in the stack and that seems to be all it takes to build the depot. I have searched the forum and there seems to be no mention of any change. What am I misinterpreting here?

[ohms_law]

I'm nearly certain that it was changed during beta from what's in the manual.

Regardless, in order to build a depot you need 4 elements. It doesn't matter how many supply units it takes (most of the units contain 4 elements, but not all of them do, and some can be destroyed of course).

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[yardmaster]

Thanks. That confirms what I thought. I just couldn't believe it wasn't discussed somewhere.

[pgr]

Well if you look at the Supply Wagon unit, most are made up of 4 wagon elements. Technically speaking you need 4 wagon elements to build a depot. Now there are also "half" supply wagon units. (Units that have only 2 wagon elements). If you try to build a depot with one of those units, it will not be possible.

As for the manual, it was finalized before the game was fully published, so there are some minor errors now that final changes have been made.

[Merlin]

The two element wagons find their usefulness in the West. You can build them nearly anywhere west of the Mississippi, while the four element wagons are more of an eastern feature. Two element wagons are the flatboats of the plains.

[mohsin malik]

The manual states that a depot is built by expending two supply unit wagons--although in some places it seems to simply say two supply wagons. As I have started to play the game, however, the build depot button is active with only one supply unit in the stack and that seems to be all it takes to build the depot


___________
Mohsin

[ohms_law]

It's the number of elements in the unit(s) that actually matters, not the number of units themselves. All (?) of the supply units that the Confederates are given to start the main campaign scenario(s) out with are 4 element units like I illustrated above. However, you can purchase 2 element "lite" supply units as well; in which case you would need 2 of those units in order to build a depot. Another possibility is if a 2 or 4 element supply unit loses one or more elements to combat, in which case you'll need more than the single unit in order to build a depot.

[minipol]

Also note that you can build depots on rivers next to a river by using the smallest transport ships.
I think they are flatboats. It's a cheaper investment then a wagontrain.

[Captain_Orso]

Welllllll, almost. You can use a flatboats unit with 4 elements in a harbor, because they are they are inside the land-region when in the harbor. If the land region does not have a harbor you cannot use any naval supply elements, because they cannot enter that land region.

[pgr]

The two element wagons find their usefulness in the West. You can build them nearly anywhere west of the Mississippi, while the four element wagons are more of an eastern feature. Two element wagons are the flatboats of the plains.

excepting the actual flatboats that show up in the build pool for the Planes... but I digress...

[pgr]

A bit off topic, but does the cannon requirement to build forts bother anyone else? The supply wagon cost is already quite high. Why can't it just deduct from WS?

(And since the new forts don't feature in-place garrison guns, one wonders where they went...did they melt them down to make bronze fortress doors?)

[ohms_law]

It doesn't bother me; forts should be expensive. Besides, it's fairly quick and easy to purchase 4 light artillery units.

[Captain_Orso]

The "cost" of 4 supply elements and 4 artillery elements are actually just costs, because once they have been used to starting building the fort the units are returned to build pool.

I have two issues with the way forts are built:

1. To be the most cost effective you need to use 6lb-ers to build the fort. I'm not sure of the CS side, but the Union gets about 4 in Delaware and about another 4-5 in Kansas or Iowa, I believe, which IIRC can be build in an alternate location if the actual build state isn't producing WSU.

Sometimes I want to actually use these as combat units and not have to save them all up in case I want to build a fort or have to pay a higher cost for using 12lb-ers.

Adding a support unit who's only purpose would be to use to build a fort and who's cost is fixed and not dependent on my usage of 6lb-er artillery would fix that.

2. The concept of having to first build a unit and then actually move it to a location is only fitting the process to current game mechanics. In reality supplies for building a fort would be moved into place over the time of building a fort and certainly not all at once. Also, depending on the fort, I rather question whether WSU--which generally represents iron in the game--would even be involved to such an extent.

--

Maybe a more realistic way to do it would be to start building with an RGD card and then pay a certain amount of money and GS each turn. Require an engineering, pioneer or leader with the Engineer ability and at least 2--or maybe 4--supply elements to be present and in supply or building does not take place, which would also allow for the use of riverine or oceanic transports/flatboats to be use in harbor locations.

But that would require coding in the engine--the RGD itself would be the least of it--so it's not going to happen. Suggestion 2. I believe would also require coding for the game to recognize the necessary unit, so that's not going to happen either, and so we're back to square one.