I’m not sure where to post this: here, history, or modding. I’m interested in adding more unit names (as flavor) to the game. I’ve started a discussion in the modding forum about the larger project, and following are notes about proposed names for infantry models (regiments) and units (brigades).
For infantry, I'm not going to list everything here, as it is almost entirely numbers. But I do want to write down how many infantry regiments and brigades are unnamed.
For brigades, there are a few names needed. It seems like the names are for generals or are numbers. My plan is to simply add numbers to states that don't have enough names. That means there will be an infantry brigade called the "82nd New York". This is needed for 4 states, three USA: CT has 19 in the FP and 14 names, KY has 30 in the FP and 9 names, and NY has 82 in the FP and 67 names, and one in the CSA: TN has 23 in the FP and 22 names. Also, MO needs names rearranged.
For infantry, a few states need more named infantry. These include KS needs 1, MD needs 3, MI needs 2, NY needs 11, confederate KY needs 63, confederate MO needs 5, TX needs 1, VA needs 11. I'm going to just add numbers for these. This means that there are infantry numbers in states where that number didn't exist. If anyone strongly feels this is wrong, let me know.
I'm going to add regiment nicknames from here (http://www.bitsofblueandgray.com/nicknames.regts.htm) whereever possible. Let me know if there is a regiment nickname you want that isn't on that list. Also let me know if there is a brigade nickname that currently isn't in game that you would like to see.
Any thoughts on how to handle the heavy artillery units that Grant converted into infantry for the Overland Campaign? I was thinking some of capital defense units that were added in 1.03 could be renamed, but I've never really looked at them.
"Thank God. I thought it was a New York Regiment."- Unknown Confederate major, upon learning he had surrendered to the 6th Wisconsin.
Hmm. I don't think any of the capital defenses added were heavy artillery, but I'm not sure. I think of this as purely a flavor mod for now. Converting units affects game balance (even slightly), and as a mostly Union vs Athena player, I'm not qualified to affect balance yet.
If it were an option in game (a card, perhaps) to convert an artillery unit to infantry, I don't think anyone would ever use it. Artillery is more costly in the game than manpower. Maybe if it were possible to convert a fixed Fort Battery in northern NY to an unfixed militia unit, it would be useful. But I think within the game as written, this would work best as an additional card. Plus, it would make the cards even more controversial, which would at least stir up the hornets nest on these forums.
If it were an option in game (a card, perhaps) to convert an artillery unit to infantry, I don't think anyone would ever use it. Artillery is more costly in the game than manpower. Maybe if it were possible to convert a fixed Fort Battery in northern NY to an unfixed militia unit, it would be useful. But I think within the game as written, this would work best as an additional card. Plus, it would make the cards even more controversial, which would at least stir up the hornets nest on these forums.
tripax wrote:Hmm. I don't think any of the capital defenses added were heavy artillery, but I'm not sure.
I didn't mean to suggest you change the unit types, only the element names. Since the capital defenses are locked as it is, and are scripted to become unlocked when the heavy artillery units were converted, it seems historically logical as most of these heavy artillery units only saw combat as infantry. So you would have a infantry element named "1st Maine Heavy Artillery" which would unlock either as scripted, in early 1864, or when Washington is attacked. And these converted heavy artillery regiments saw heavy action, the 1st Maine suffered the most single-action casualties of any Union regiment in the war, and before that a converted heavy artillery division turned back a strong Confederate recon at the Harris Farm during the Overland Campaign
"Thank God. I thought it was a New York Regiment."- Unknown Confederate major, upon learning he had surrendered to the 6th Wisconsin.
Ahh, I see. Yeah, that makes sense. Hardcoded unit name changes would be done in the events databases while recruited unit names are in the unit and model databases. My focus is first on the recruited units, but I'm interested in correcting typos and adding realism/flavor in hardcoded unit names. But I think what you are suggesting is a bit more than that.
A principle to which I think the game aspires is that the initial conditions of the war are modeled with some realism in mind. From there, recruitment and defense force creation are modeled with plausibility in mind. The component regiments in special unit brigades (from the Various Events.sct file) seem fine as they provide a lot of flavor and really couldn't organically form and give the player so much flavor (it is fun to have a Gibralter brigade, and there isn't a clear way to create the issue except simply by a dated event). Regiments in other hardcoded units (in USA Events.sct and CSA Events.sct) such as the Washington Defense Force should perhaps be based on real units that formed at about the same time and given about the same duties as are set in the game.
But, I think modifying these brigades for realistic flavor would require changing the makeup of the Washington Defense Force. It would be nice to understand AGEOD's reasons for putting that group of units there at that time. For me, such modifications is a separate mod.
A principle to which I think the game aspires is that the initial conditions of the war are modeled with some realism in mind. From there, recruitment and defense force creation are modeled with plausibility in mind. The component regiments in special unit brigades (from the Various Events.sct file) seem fine as they provide a lot of flavor and really couldn't organically form and give the player so much flavor (it is fun to have a Gibralter brigade, and there isn't a clear way to create the issue except simply by a dated event). Regiments in other hardcoded units (in USA Events.sct and CSA Events.sct) such as the Washington Defense Force should perhaps be based on real units that formed at about the same time and given about the same duties as are set in the game.
But, I think modifying these brigades for realistic flavor would require changing the makeup of the Washington Defense Force. It would be nice to understand AGEOD's reasons for putting that group of units there at that time. For me, such modifications is a separate mod.
tripax wrote:I’m not sure where to post this: here, history, or modding. I’m interested in adding more unit names (as flavor) to the game. I’ve started a discussion in the modding forum about the larger project, and following are notes about proposed names for infantry models (regiments) and units (brigades).
Thanks a lot for the work you are doing here and in other similar threads
Mickey3D wrote:Thanks a lot for the work you are doing here and in other similar threads
You're welcome. Writing out my notes in this way has helped me organize my thoughts and get input. I think I'm done creating threads. Hopefully they aren't too spammy and I think they will be of some use to others. I'm trying to modify the database files now and trying to get csv splitter to work. I think the mod will be ready soon.
I figure you already plan to, but could you look into renaming the volunteer brigades with similar titles such as the "NJ Volunteer Brigade" and "NJ Volunteer Bde." Maryland units have a similar issue.
"Thank God. I thought it was a New York Regiment."- Unknown Confederate major, upon learning he had surrendered to the 6th Wisconsin.
Just an update, I'm working on a database of brigade names (and other information as well). If anyone wants to help, I am finishing writing a script (perl with lots of regex, if you are into that sort of thing) that reads orders of battle from Wikipedia and reads the regiment, brigade, division, corps, army, and district names (and commanders where possible) to populate the database. I will then be able to put that info into the unit name mod with ease.
So what you can do, if you like doing these sorts of things, is add orders of battle to Wikipeida and improve those that already exist (the script has no problem adding changes as they are done). Here is the page for currently existing orders of battle. My script only reads orders where the Union and Confederacy have seperate pages (so the 1863 Battle of Franklin order of battle is skipped for now). If you like to edit wikipedia, if you follow the format of other orders and add orders of battle for another battle or two, it would add to the database (so long as you add them to the category, so I see them). If no one does, there are 193 orders of battle already there, so the database will already be quite extensive. Thanks.
So what you can do, if you like doing these sorts of things, is add orders of battle to Wikipeida and improve those that already exist (the script has no problem adding changes as they are done). Here is the page for currently existing orders of battle. My script only reads orders where the Union and Confederacy have seperate pages (so the 1863 Battle of Franklin order of battle is skipped for now). If you like to edit wikipedia, if you follow the format of other orders and add orders of battle for another battle or two, it would add to the database (so long as you add them to the category, so I see them). If no one does, there are 193 orders of battle already there, so the database will already be quite extensive. Thanks.
Ok, I've got a lot of the bugs sorted and have a nice database to work with. In the excel file I'm attaching there are two tabs. The Regiment Database is a list of every regiment in every battle I used. 78 battles from the Wikipedia orders of battle were used (that is 156 total orders of battle out of 193 listed). The existence of those wikipedia pages serves as a vote of sorts for the importance of those battles and therefore the importance of those brigades. I can rerun everything and add more with a couple keystrokes, so this could get larger. The Brigade Commanders tab is a list of brigade commanders and some information about their brigade(s). That tab is sorted by side (USA/CSA), most common state of origin of brigades under commander's command, date of first battle where the commander commanded a brigade, and finally by number of battles that commander commanded a brigade.
I propose listing brigade names in my mod to be after their commander (with special brigades and their commanders such as the Gibralter Brigade removed) and according to the state which served as the most common state of origin for regiments under their command. Further, I propose ordering the commanders in that list by date of first battle where they commanded a brigade and by number of battles commanded as brigade commander. So Joseph Plummer who commanded a Missouri brigade at Belmont comes before Samuel Sturgis and Franz Sigel who commanded 3 months later at Wilson's Creek, and Stugis comes before Sigel because Sigel was a division commander while Sturgis in battles where Sturgis was still a brigade commander, so Sturgis has more battles where he commanded a Brigade. I am ok with this because those who were promoted are often already in the game.
There are many bugs in this, including random things being dropped for mysterious reasons, characters such as apostrophe’s becoming odd (something to do with Unicode?), different spellings of names being counted as different commanders, and lots of missing battles. That said, what I have is more than enough to go on. Also, many currently exiting brigade names will likely be moved around. It is possible that currently existing brigade names will disappear. That will have to be ok for me for now. In any case, I'll update my mod with these additions soon.
[ATTACH]27632[/ATTACH]
P.S. Besides providing the logic behind my mod, I'm posting this excel file as a proof of concept of sorts for mods seeking to add more realism to brigade make-up and division general appearance dates and locations. If/when such projects get started, I think these files could help.
I propose listing brigade names in my mod to be after their commander (with special brigades and their commanders such as the Gibralter Brigade removed) and according to the state which served as the most common state of origin for regiments under their command. Further, I propose ordering the commanders in that list by date of first battle where they commanded a brigade and by number of battles commanded as brigade commander. So Joseph Plummer who commanded a Missouri brigade at Belmont comes before Samuel Sturgis and Franz Sigel who commanded 3 months later at Wilson's Creek, and Stugis comes before Sigel because Sigel was a division commander while Sturgis in battles where Sturgis was still a brigade commander, so Sturgis has more battles where he commanded a Brigade. I am ok with this because those who were promoted are often already in the game.
There are many bugs in this, including random things being dropped for mysterious reasons, characters such as apostrophe’s becoming odd (something to do with Unicode?), different spellings of names being counted as different commanders, and lots of missing battles. That said, what I have is more than enough to go on. Also, many currently exiting brigade names will likely be moved around. It is possible that currently existing brigade names will disappear. That will have to be ok for me for now. In any case, I'll update my mod with these additions soon.
[ATTACH]27632[/ATTACH]
P.S. Besides providing the logic behind my mod, I'm posting this excel file as a proof of concept of sorts for mods seeking to add more realism to brigade make-up and division general appearance dates and locations. If/when such projects get started, I think these files could help.
- Attachments
-
- TripaxCWDB2014-05-01.zip
- (1.13 MiB) Downloaded 398 times
tripax wrote:Ok, I've got a lot of the bugs sorted and have a nice database to work with. In the excel file I'm attaching there are two tabs. The Regiment Database is a list of every regiment in every battle I used. 78 battles from the Wikipedia orders of battle were used (that is 156 total orders of battle out of 193 listed). The existence of those wikipedia pages serves as a vote of sorts for the importance of those battles and therefore the importance of those brigades. I can rerun everything and add more with a couple keystrokes, so this could get larger. The Brigade Commanders tab is a list of brigade commanders and some information about their brigade(s). That tab is sorted by side (USA/CSA), most common state of origin of brigades under commander's command, date of first battle where the commander commanded a brigade, and finally by number of battles that commander commanded a brigade.
I propose listing brigade names in my mod to be after their commander (with special brigades and their commanders such as the Gibralter Brigade removed) and according to the state which served as the most common state of origin for regiments under their command. Further, I propose ordering the commanders in that list by date of first battle where they commanded a brigade and by number of battles commanded as brigade commander. So Joseph Plummer who commanded a Missouri brigade at Belmont comes before Samuel Sturgis and Franz Sigel who commanded 3 months later at Wilson's Creek, and Stugis comes before Sigel because Sigel was a division commander while Sturgis in battles where Sturgis was still a brigade commander, so Sturgis has more battles where he commanded a Brigade. I am ok with this because those who were promoted are often already in the game.
There are many bugs in this, including random things being dropped for mysterious reasons, characters such as apostrophe’s becoming odd (something to do with Unicode?), different spellings of names being counted as different commanders, and lots of missing battles. That said, what I have is more than enough to go on. Also, many currently exiting brigade names will likely be moved around. It is possible that currently existing brigade names will disappear. That will have to be ok for me for now. In any case, I'll update my mod with these additions soon.
[ATTACH]27632[/ATTACH]
P.S. Besides providing the logic behind my mod, I'm posting this excel file as a proof of concept of sorts for mods seeking to add more realism to brigade make-up and division general appearance dates and locations. If/when such projects get started, I think these files could help.
Great work, again.
Thanks. I've been casually looking through various volumes of "The War of the Rebellion: a compilation of the official records...", and found a nice list of alternate designations of units, here: https://archive.org/stream/warrebellionaco00cowlgoog#page/n980/mode/2up
tripax wrote:Thanks. I've been casually looking through various volumes of "The War of the Rebellion: a compilation of the official records...", and found a nice list of alternate designations of units, here: https://archive.org/stream/warrebellionaco00cowlgoog#page/n980/mode/2up
When the original work was being done on AACW, we were looking for brigade nicknames to give additional flavour to the game. This was in addition to the elite brigades. Your list from the official Records was one of our source materials. The more colourful nicknames were actually at the company level and not at regimental or brigade. We did toy with using the company designations, but, in the end, these were not used. My favourite was 'Uncle Sam's Reb Busters'. It is not in your list and I have forgotten where it was found.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
'Nous voilà, Lafayette'
Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917
'Nous voilà, Lafayette'
Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917
Le Ricain wrote:When the original work was being done on AACW, we were looking for brigade nicknames to give additional flavour to the game. This was in addition to the elite brigades. Your list from the official Records was one of our source materials. The more colourful nicknames were actually at the company level and not at regimental or brigade. We did toy with using the company designations, but, in the end, these were not used. My favourite was 'Uncle Sam's Reb Busters'. It is not in your list and I have forgotten where it was found.
Cool, thanks for the insight. I hadn't compared that source to the DB, I was just putting the link here so I can check it out later. I'll double check, but I think you are right that these names are already in game.
I did use zouave company names to fill out the number of zouaves regiment names, but otherwise I agree that company names don't belong as regiment names.
It may not be my politics, but I'm trying to figure out if BG States Rights Gist's first name(s?) could fit in somewhere.
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