River Crossing Q

[Michael T]

Does anyone know the details of river fleets preventing land units traversing a river?

I have river fleets (minimum 2 elements) stationed along a river and some units are prevented from crossing and others are not.

For example 2 river boats will stop a stack with multiple units from crossing. Yet if I break the stack down all units will cross individually.

[Ace]

4 river boat elements (2 units) should stop the planned crossing.

[Mickey3D]

4 river boat elements give you the maximum probability to prevent river crossing (i.e. no need to put more elements) but there is always a small chance (10% ?) for the ennemy stack to go through.

[Michael T]

Thanks, I suspected that might be the case.

Is there any comprehsive list of these pecentages somewhere?

[Ace]

If you are a numbers fan (you seem to be, you are asking for them), many numbers you were asking for are located in "GameLogic.opt" file located in Civil war II\CW2\Settings folder.

Open the file with the notepad or with notepad++, and look at all those fine percentages. You can even mod something if you wish to.

[Michael T]

Thanks, yes I like to know the odds of certain things happening or not

[veji1]

Thanks, yes I like to know the odds of certain things happening or not

I can understand you, but it is a part of computer gaming I dislike : Knowing the odds too well and then optimizing one's behaviour to extremes.. It is very rational, but takes the feel away from the game to an extent, reducing to what it in the end is : numbers..

[Ace]

That is why designers chose to hide some numbers away into opt files used by the database

[RickInVA]

On the other hand a real world commander would have some idea how much of something is needed to accomplish a goal. While real world commanders do make mistakes they should know some basics. In this case they would probably know is a given stretch of river only has 1 possible crossing point and so 1 or 2 gunboats should be able to prevent crossing, or is there are many crossing points and so it will take more boats. In game terms perhaps when you have your naval forces there a tool tip would tell you that there is a Low/medium/High chance to stop crossings. Something that gives you an idea of what is going on.

[Ol' Choctaw]

You have several tools a RL commander would use. Artillery to sink or drive them away. Mines to make them look to safer waters. Break your units into small detachments so that some may make it, if the need is great enough. It just takes longer.

[veji1]

On the other hand a real world commander would have some idea how much of something is needed to accomplish a goal. While real world commanders do make mistakes they should know some basics. In this case they would probably know is a given stretch of river only has 1 possible crossing point and so 1 or 2 gunboats should be able to prevent crossing, or is there are many crossing points and so it will take more boats. In game terms perhaps when you have your naval forces there a tool tip would tell you that there is a Low/medium/High chance to stop crossings. Something that gives you an idea of what is going on.

True, that would be great, I agree that there is a fair bit of missing info in the game, but I would prefer it to be given with words than with numbers, ie not "there is a 12% chance of the crossing being possible", but rather "presence of enemy gunboats renders the Crossing very unlikely". I like chrome and I don't like to look to closely to the hidden engine.

[veji1]

You have several tools a RL commander would use. Artillery to sink or drive them away. Mines to make them look to safer waters. Break your units into small detachments so that some may make it, if the need is great enough. It just takes longer.

I agree as well, Boats should slow down crossings and make them endure losses, but rarely stop them. If a 15 000 men stack wants to cross the Ohio river, 2/3 gunboats aren't going to stop it completely, once the troops in question set up artillery positions to defend the approches, there isn't much the gunboats can do.. They just slow it down and could make some losses. It is very different if you are talking about a larger fleet of ironclads and gunbaots.

[loki100]

Thanks, yes I like to know the odds of certain things happening or not

Having seen a number of your AARs for War in the East I'm not surprised. But to many of us the delight of the AGE game systems is that not every interaction can be min/maxed to develop the perfect strategy. Thats not to say you can play well if you ignore the game mechanics and systems, but these games work as a whole, not broken down into every micro-routine.

[Ace]

Mississippi gunboats did stop Confederate troops from travelling over the river. When you are taliking about large river where pontoon is needed, gunboats did made a lot of difference, and their range was bigger than those of regular field guns.

[Michael T]

I don't know this system at all. I just want some clarity as to what the odds are to certain events. Not knowing this kind of thing and then playing others who do is suicidal.

[Captain_Orso]

This was discussed at great lengths during the brainstorming before the first internal beta ever saw the light of day. Several things came to the surface of the discussion

• There is no historical precedence of a land force of any size ever forcing the crossing of a major river.
• Although it might theoretically be possible, how it might be done would require extensive rules controlling this.
• How much artillery would be needed to hold off how many gunboats?
• How long would a crossing take and would there be time to draw in more gunboats from nearby stretches of the river being crossed?
• Once more gunboats might arrive how to continue from there?
• One of the worst things that could happen to a large force would be to have it divided on opposite sides of a major waterway, where it could be destroyed piecemeal.

It's a never-ending list of what-ifs with no historical precedence to draw on, but there are historical precedences of forces not trying to cross rivers under the guard of gunboats.

For example when Hood took his army up into Tennessee on his Nashville campaign. He avoided trying to cross the Tennessee River east of Tuscumbia, which would have been far shorter and more direct, because of Union gunboats patrolling the river. At Tuscumbia the river shallows at Muscel Shoals and is inundated by rapids where the gunboats could not follow and this is where he deployed his bridges and crossed the Tennessee.

It was therefore deemed during brainstorming to be more prudent to leave the rules basically unchanged and use the time and effort in advancing other subjects which would be more fruitful.