German Empire, not quite an AAR...

[HerrDan]

Yes the jaeger company no27 is ready to service of reich if u liberate us... (Putin is arschloss)

Good to know that I can count on Finland's forces to service against the russians.

[havi]

In RL it was the jaeger company no27 what served in kaiser in Easter front what wAs made of Finnish patriots and that company was shipped in Finland in1917 to fight our Independecy against russians and communists forces.

[HerrDan]

We have reassured our support to the Spanish crown on the Cuba question, in my discourse I pointed out that Cuba isn't just a spanish colony, but it's part of Spain itself and we shall not tolerate it to secede from the spanish crown. We all know that the americans have interests in Cuba, but they shall be reminded that we're prepared to intervene directly in defense of our spanish friends, if necessary.
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(I modded an event to give our relations with Spain a small boost[+20], as I think it's historically accurate in the case)

[HerrDan]

THIS IS SHOCKING! OUTRAGEOUS! REVOLTING!!!
I have no words to describe my reaction to this news I've just received from China!
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We demand retribution! I don't care about the russians! I don't fear them! I fear no one!!!
All I know is that I want retribution!

[HerrDan]

In RL it was the jaeger company no27 what served in kaiser in Easter front what wAs made of Finnish patriots and that company was shipped in Finland in1917 to fight our Independecy against russians and communists forces.

Oh great! I didn't know about that!
Thank you very much for sharing your knowlegde here

[HerrDan]

I have sent a telegram to Paulus Kruger, president of the Transval Republic, congratulating him on repelling a sortie sent by Perfidious Albion to disturb peace in the South African Republic. (the event itself appears to be missing a text, I still don't know how to edit event's texts, as you could probably see in the event I created for giving the spanish support, but this one Kruge telegram is from the game itself, not created by me)
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Here's the content of my telegram:

"I express to you my sincere congratulations that you and your people, without appealing to the help of friendly powers, have succeeded, by your own energetic action against the armed bands which invaded your country as disturbers of the peace, in restoring peace and in maintaining the independence of the country against attack from without." *1

And now the british are angry at me! I did what was right, I congratulated a leader for repelling a foreign armed band (surely armed by the british crown itself!) who wished to disturb the peace in his country!





*1 van der Poel, J - The Jameson Raid, p135.

[Jim-NC]

The AI seems to not honor defensive treaties. So if you attack Russia, then her allies usually don't jump to her defense. So you are probably safe if you attack her.

The troopship hold more cargo (as it's 1 ship holding 5 vs. 3 ships holding 10). It also has better initiative, and better evade properties. If naval battles follow land battles, then there is firing at range, then "hand to hand" fighting. That may be what is meant the grappling combat. Haven't looked that closely at naval combat in the logs (as mostly the AI doesn't build ships).

[HerrDan]

The AI seems to not honor defensive treaties. So if you attack Russia, then her allies usually don't jump to her defense. So you are probably safe if you attack her.

The troopship hold more cargo (as it's 1 ship holding 5 vs. 3 ships holding 10). It also has better initiative, and better evade properties. If naval battles follow land battles, then there is firing at range, then "hand to hand" fighting. That may be what is meant the grappling combat. Haven't looked that closely at naval combat in the logs (as mostly the AI doesn't build ships).

I guess I'll have to script some events to take care of these things, or use some of the events Christophe wrote.

[HerrDan]

The situation now gets even worse for Spain, now the philipines too, are revolting against spanish rule, The German Empire again offered help and I hope that now Spain can finally understand that we're by their side in this struggle. I have ordered our ports to help supply the spanish fleet so that they can more easily crush the revolters.

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Now the chinese accepted our demands and we have leased the port of Qingdao for 99 years without the need for for a war.
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[loki100]

Generally has the feeling of mounting tensions and rather confusing (not your writing just how it is) cross-crises. So in one respect, you are supporting various people (Spain, the Boers) against potential enemies, but each of those decisions has the capacity to cause real problems (and anyway, Cuba has lots of things you might want to own for yourself?). And above all this looms the 'Russian Problem'

[HerrDan]

Generally has the feeling of mounting tensions and rather confusing (not your writing just how it is) cross-crises. So in one respect, you are supporting various people (Spain, the Boers) against potential enemies, but each of those decisions has the capacity to cause real problems (and anyway, Cuba has lots of things you might want to own for yourself?). And above all this looms the 'Russian Problem'

I'm just asserting my position, to make sure they(England and USA) watch their steps. (and btw I'm acting historically as Germany did support Spain and somehow the Transval Republic).

Do you think I'm facing too many people?

Thank you for the comment, I love to answer about the way I'm following in the game.

[HerrDan]

The japanese, surprising many observers (including myself in the game not in RL as I wasn't there haha...) defeated the broken chinese.

These are warmaps before the peace was signed, Japan advanced from many places, fighting surprisingly well landing powerful armies in Korea, Manchuria, Shanghai, Weihawei and advancing from these places to dominate Manchuria, Korea and almost completelly dominate the coast of the Yellow Sea. This war really boosted Japan's standing in the international community, now it's clear that they are the dominating power among asian countries.

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With the peace treaty China "liberated" Korea and ceded Taiwan, Japan almost got the Liaodong Peninsula from China, but we, Russia and France decided (we actually agreed on something!) it was too much and pressured them, so that they backed down. (I'm using some of the events created by Christophe)

[HerrDan]

Loki, do you know if I'll have to use your world war chain to make sure it happen as historically? I guess I'll have to use your naval build events soon, as I noticed the austrians have a navy consisting of only some torpedo boats, and haven't built anything else. So I suppose they're not building navy and the same for the italians (they're both my allies so I can see their units).

[loki100]

I suspect with an 1880 start you avoid some problems. One key issue is the 1879 Balkan War tends not to happen (it gives Russia just a CB, which it rarely uses), so no Bulgaria etc.

I'd suggest use Christophe's scripts for the ending of the 1912 and 1913 Balkan Wars (that is important as the 1912 one will tend just to drag out). What I then did was to monitor the situation with the final set of events and tweaked the conditions to reflect my own game. I think its feasible to make them more generic but there is an issue of wanting it to make them realistic also to the game situation - so in my AAR, it made sense to envisage an anglo-german block opposed to a Franco-Italian one (ie I didn't want the UK to declare war on Germany).

If you look in the 1914 scenario files (its in 'includes' as VGN_inc_1914 and either land or naval) that will give you access to a good 1914 naval OOB (and the text needed to make those ships appear), so all I did was to amend that to my tastes (if I recall I gave the UK 50% of its OOB and other main powers 33%).

Going back to your earlier comment, one thing I so enjoy about PoN is the way you can imagine the implications of the game events. I think because the bulk of the outcomes are tied to our time line (so no Persia as a superpower as I managed in my last game of VII), then the variations become more real. Also the game encourages long term plotting and preparing to obtain your goals.

[HerrDan]

I suspect with an 1880 start you avoid some problems. One key issue is the 1879 Balkan War tends not to happen (it gives Russia just a CB, which it rarely uses), so no Bulgaria etc.

I'd suggest use Christophe's scripts for the ending of the 1912 and 1913 Balkan Wars (that is important as the 1912 one will tend just to drag out). What I then did was to monitor the situation with the final set of events and tweaked the conditions to reflect my own game. I think its feasible to make them more generic but there is an issue of wanting it to make them realistic also to the game situation - so in my AAR, it made sense to envisage an anglo-german block opposed to a Franco-Italian one (ie I didn't want the UK to declare war on Germany).

If you look in the 1914 scenario files (its in 'includes' as VGN_inc_1914 and either land or naval) that will give you access to a good 1914 naval OOB (and the text needed to make those ships appear), so all I did was to amend that to my tastes (if I recall I gave the UK 50% of its OOB and other main powers 33%).

Going back to your earlier comment, one thing I so enjoy about PoN is the way you can imagine the implications of the game events. I think because the bulk of the outcomes are tied to our time line (so no Persia as a superpower as I managed in my last game of VII), then the variations become more real. Also the game encourages long term plotting and preparing to obtain your goals.

I've read your WW1 chain thread on the Help improve PON subforum, I think I'll use that scripts (I suppose I'll have to put those scripts into each contry involved events file, right?) to make sure the chain works in my game as I'm following the alliances historically so that the chain would end up being realistic to my game situation, I'll have a look at Christophe's scripts for ending Balkan wars too, so that everything is set.

Talking again about my "goals" so to say, I know the likely outcome of my actions is that USA and GB are going to be against me in any case, but I'm prepared for the challenge, it's also great to plot long terms goals and preparing to obtain my goals, surely PON is the only game that makes it possible to have a realistic outcome out of those actions.

[HerrDan]

Btw I'd love to have an event for naval building among ai, before that one of the 1914OOB...although the AI already have some navy in the 1880 start, they didn't improve from that, so that most navies are way too small, if I had an event by now in the late 1890s it would be great, would anyone help me here?

[Kensai]

Remember: in such a sandbox game, your mileage may vary. If you "feel" that the challenge is not enough, script your own conditions and let it play. It is easy to be winning when playing in a "gamey" way. But is it satisfying? If yes, disregard this comment, if not, express your thoughts here and we may help you morph the reality you might want to play.

For example: a very powerful Germany should unite the other major nations into some kind of "holy alliance" (coalitions) to restrict its presence. It wouldn't be outlandish, after all, they had done it almost a century earlier against Napoleon. Seven coalitions all in all. A huge Germany just before WWI with a human player might need for a real challenge a script to give a defensive alliance (or directly added in a war) amongst most/all other nations against Germany. Now that I wanna see you survive!

[HerrDan]

Remember: in such a sandbox game, your mileage may vary. If you "feel" that the challenge is not enough, script your own conditions and let it play. It is easy to be winning when playing in a "gamey" way. But is it satisfying? If yes, disregard this comment, if not, express your thoughts here and we may help you morph the reality you might want to play.

For example: a very powerful Germany should unite the other major nations into some kind of "holy alliance" (coalitions) to restrict its presence. It wouldn't be outlandish, after all, they had done it almost a century earlier against Napoleon. Seven coalitions all in all. A huge Germany just before WWI with a human player might need for a real challenge a script to give a defensive alliance (or directly added in a war) amongst most/all other nations against Germany. Now that I wanna see you survive!

The last thing I want is a "sandbox" here (that's why I quit playing V2), by the way I'm playing to get the most challenge possible and that's why I play with historical pools and the likes, and I made the russians get a deffensive alliance with the french on the franco-russian alliance event and that's also the reason I want to make the AI to have a strong navy. I don't think I'm playing in a "gamey" way at all!

[HerrDan]

I want a challenging AI, and to get even more challenge I'm playing in an agressive way, using the German Empire with Kaiser Wilhelm II as a guideline, I'm just being more agressive because I want more challenge, so I'm thinking in siding with Spain in the Spanish-American War, by the way, again, something that almost happened in RL. I don't know if I'll intervene in the Second Boers war, but I can give Kruger some support, as Germany did historically.

Sorry, but I really don't understand why you think I'm playing in a "gamey" way, as the last thing I want is to take advantage of the AI, or having an unrealitical super germany. I'm just using the historial potential of the German Empire.

[HerrDan]

Kensai, could you explain why do you think I'm playing in a "gamey" way? You said you wanted to discuss it here, but then you don't reply, I really want to understand your point of view.

[Kensai]

Not you, specifically, it was a general comment I give to every AAR that is going too well. It is not the player's fault if the AI is not challenging enough, but I have noticed that once a nation becomes powerful enough, there are really few things that can stop it short of a coalition. The "gamey" part is the part I am striving to address with Christophe in a potential future iteration of the game and it will certainly include (in case of "historical" constrains) a much more limited pool of assets.

Your AAR is stunning, I just want to offer you "pepper" to spice it up even more!
(but only if you so desire)

[HerrDan]

But of course I desire! It's great to get such comments, and the oportunity for nice debates over the way we're following in a game.

I'm eager to face consequences for the course of actions I'm undertaking, indeed I love this kind of challenge, that's the main reason I cancelled the alliance with Russia, as it would be "too easy" to win ww1 without a two front war. I'm planning to go to war with Russia soon (probably before ww1, and then probably again when ww1 break out), I'm mainly taking this "agressive" stance (but not really "gamey" with many wars, conquering of enemy territory etc) because you said in your AAR with Germany that you wanted to play in a more liberal, closer to Great Britain style, like Friedrich III would do if had the chance to lead Germany for a little longer, and so I decided to play in a way more similar to the way Willy(The Kaiser Wilhelm II) led Germany, less "Bismarckian" so to say and more "assertive" and "agressive" on the political field, making risky political moves etc.

It's great to have this kind of discussion and again it's really great that you all seem to be enjoying my AAR, I even thought some of you would consider it boring due to the lack of many wars, but that's because I want to play as close to real history as possible, and if I go to war that must be for a good reason, so I'm rreally surprised (and delighted) you're all enjoying it.

[HerrDan]

A crisis erupted between the british and the americans over some petty diplomatic moves, The United States now have surpassed the french in prestige, it seems Loki's advice about american growing prestige at the end of the century is something to bear in mind...

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[Jim-NC]

Btw I'd love to have an event for naval building among ai, before that one of the 1914OOB...although the AI already have some navy in the 1880 start, they didn't improve from that, so that most navies are way too small, if I had an event by now in the late 1890s it would be great, would anyone help me here?

You can "force" a navy on any country. I would recommend that you save the game under a different name (that way you don't ruin what you are doing). Open the different named game, and then look at each AI country in turn (US/Britain/France/Italy/etc.). Determine their most powerful ship, and the costs. You can then have them build 1, 2, or even 3 of that type ship, and deduct the costs needed. Loki's script will help you with that. As to how many, that would be a personal decision, but you could use the 1914 OOB to give you a guide (for example, if Britain had the largest navy, they try to build the most ships, and factor it down from their - ignoring your fleet size of course). This will give the AI navies that resemble the size of their navy at the pre-war levels.

[HerrDan]

You mean open the game as another country? Or is there a file from where I can build units for them? Isn't it easier to script an event, like the one Loki used? Is it possible to load as another country in my own game, build something and then come back to the country I play, for instance to load as Great Britain and build 5 Pre-Dreadnoughts and then come back to play as Germany? It's confusing for me.

[Jim-NC]

You can look at the AI turns to see what they are planning/doing. If you open their turn, and enter orders, then you will be changing it. I think that makes the game think the country is human played. If you do that in you main game, it will give you a message each time you process the turn, saying that one or more countries don't have orders, do you want to make them AI controlled. I think that will work properly. You can do what you are suggesting, you will just get the message.

You can open all the AI turns and give them all directions at the same turn. Have them all build ships at the same time.

[HerrDan]

Thank you very much Jim!
It seems very interesting to be able to see what the AI is doing and even give it orders, still, I think it's easier to script an event for the AI navy, I'll have a look at Loki's one and try to understand the names of the units etc so that I can script something for my game before the XX century.

[Jim-NC]

FYI - Loki's script is using 1910's technology. You can only use his if the nations in your game have the same technology. You probably have 1875-1895 ship types, which are at least 1 generation to low for Loki's script. I think there is a 1895-1905 generation as well. Thus if you used the script right now, you would give your enemies better ships than you have.

[HerrDan]

FYI - Loki's script is using 1910's technology. You can only use his if the nations in your game have the same technology. You probably have 1875-1895 ship types, which are at least 1 generation to low for Loki's script. I think there is a 1895-1905 generation as well. Thus if you used the script right now, you would give your enemies better ships than you have.

Yes there is a 1895-1905, the "Pre-Dreadnoughts among others, he said he did his when it was 1906 in his game, I guess I'll have to wait a little, I'd really love if I had an event for the navy of 1895-1905 done like his for the later game, but I guess you won't have time for this and I'll have to try something myself

[HerrDan]

Oh my God! I was just going to test an event to force the AI to build a navy, and before I was going to write the script I went to check out my ally Italy naval bases and then at their largest naval base of Campania and LOOK WHAT I JUST FOUND THERE!!! They were already building a modern (well not that modern, but anyway surprised me a lot) steel battleship themselves!

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