Marius vs Sulla victory

[Jagger2013]

I finished up the Marius vs Sulla scenario as Marius and am proud to announce Marius triumphant. However there were quite a few tight moments versus the AI. It took 2 years to stabilize the situation in Italy and Spain. By the third year, it looked like I was riding the wave with hubris and then Sulla returned to Italy with his hammer. Sulla almost finished me off and if I were playing a human, I think I would have been finished. The AI was just not quite capable of taking complete advantage of my mistakes, giving me the breathing room to rehabilitate the tattered remnants of my armies. And that was a mistake--along with Sulla disappearing somewhere. So I recovered in the fourth year and by the fifth had firm control of Italy and dominated Spain. I was even capable of sending a force out to beseige Corinth. Biggest lesson learned in this game is to be very, very, VERY careful about confronting a 6-6-7 leader in battle. Best to avoid him if possible.

I must congratulate the scenario designers and the AI capability. I have played each side in the "4Emperors" scenario and now Marius in "Marius vs Sulla" and each game has been exciting. I don't know that I have played an AI that has performed this well in a stategy game. And so far, each scenario has been challenging regardless of the side I have played. Good play balance with multiple sides can't be an easy task but I am impressed.

I suspect Sulla may be the most powerful force in the Marius vs Sulla scenario, so next I am going to try Mithridites and see how I can do against Sulla. If any one has any strategy hints before I start, now is the time to let me know.

[pantsukki]

The Pontics have enormous amounts of men available. I've been playing them in a 3-way PBEM, and because I managed to save the starting forces in Greece (it's essential to eliminate them quickly as Sulla), I was able to overwhelm the Optimates. I haven't seen the AI doing it, but activating the Thracians gives you over 30k free soldiers. Besieging Rhodos takes time, make sure you have lots of supply units available and keep rotating them back to Asia minor to be resupplied. Also don't send too big a stack (obviously has to be big enough to be able to beat the besieged forces if they sally) there to conserve supply, and keep the port blockaded.

[ess1]

The Pontics have enormous amounts of men available. I've been playing them in a 3-way PBEM, and because I managed to save the starting forces in Greece (it's essential to eliminate them quickly as Sulla), I was able to overwhelm the Optimates. I haven't seen the AI doing it, but activating the Thracians gives you over 30k free soldiers. Besieging Rhodos takes time, make sure you have lots of supply units available and keep rotating them back to Asia minor to be resupplied. Also don't send too big a stack (obviously has to be big enough to be able to beat the besieged forces if they sally) there to conserve supply, and keep the port blockaded.

Interesting. How does one activate Thracians? Tooltip shows that they will be activated after game finishes!
Rhodes: gave up as opponent managed to force my retreat. Don't know why engine allowed reinforcement to a besieged city.

[pantsukki]

Interesting. How does one activate Thracians? Tooltip shows that they will be activated after game finishes!
Rhodes: gave up as opponent managed to force my retreat. Don't know why engine allowed reinforcement to a besieged city.

The Thracians became available for activation through the options very early in the game, costing some EP's and money IIRC.

Had you blockaded Rhodes? Otherwise the opponent could just transport troops there.

[Narwhal]

The Pontics have lots and lots of troops, but they are poor quality. If you play with the worst supply rules, keeping the 100K armies on the field is a logistic nightmare.

[pantsukki]

The Pontics have lots and lots of troops, but they are poor quality. If you play with the worst supply rules, keeping the 100K armies on the field is a logistic nightmare.

Even without historical attrition the logistics make operations difficult!

[bob.]

I have the same experience as pantsukki, in my PBEM game of this scenario where I was playing Pontus Sulla was rather passive in Greece and I managed to build up a huge army in Greece, it was ~130.000 men if I recall correctly. The Greek army general is pretty good, too. With Athens secured Sulla has a very hard time to gain superiority in Greece.
You should also use your navy to do some good. Rhodos is in my experience basically impossible to take but there's lots of other juicy targets to put some pressure on the Romans (land in Epirus for example). Landing in Italy seems like a bad idea, though because your generals will take a penalty there and because of the civil war it's usually filled with powerful enemy forces.

[Jagger2013]

I played about a year last night as the Pontics and I saw a lot of the issues mentioned here. I did have major supply problems, so bad that I will probably restart. I need to sit down and make sure I understand the supply rules. Right now, I have three armies just melting away because I can't keep them supplied and I don't think I am going to be able to save them.

The AI Sully immediately went after my Greek army and crushed it. I was able to evacuate the army after the remnaints retreated onto an island and I blockaded the channel with a small fleet. So I was able to rebuild it. I suspect the best strategy is just evacuate the army immediately.

I actually captured Rhodes using the accidentally brilliant strategy of landing a way too small 10,000 man army to siege the city. Since it was such a small force, it was promptly attacked by the garrison which I thought was much smaller than it was. Once I realized just how many men were in Rhodes, I started piece-mealing reinforcements and supplies as quickly as possible to Rhodes and managed to survive the assaults from the garrison. Eventually the garrison was pretty worn out and IIRC, just surrendered.

After one year of play, I suspect a fabian tactic might be the best strategy. Only fight when everything is in my favor and hit wherever Sulla isn't. And Mithridites naval dominance means the Pontics can land troops behind any advance of Sulla. The Pontics can also block any land advance across narrows into Asia easily with their navy. Although if the Romans put together a navy, they can attempt a landing anywhere along the Asian coast which may not be that hard to do. I suspect the spies could be very useful keeping track of Sulla as well as any large navy moving into Greek harbors.

One thing I missed in my first game as Marius is that apparently the Civil War has not yet started at the beginning of the game. Which means as Marius, I didn't have to go to war immediately with Sulla. From the very beginning of the game, I went directly after Sulla. But we weren't at open hostilities yet-at least I think we weren't. So I could have joined with Sulla in taking care of Mithridities first and then at the right moment, attacked Sulla. Or perhaps, Sulla could have attacked me at a moment of his convenience first. Not sure what would trigger an AI attack by Sulla on me if I had never attacked Sulla. Anyway, I may need to retry the Marius scenario again in the future bearing in mind this new understanding.

[Jagger2013]

Maybe someone can help me with a supply question. I just looked at the manual and Bohemond's beginner's guide to supply. I can see how and how much supply is generated. What I can't determine is how much supply is used per turn per unit. For example, how much supply does a single legion use per turn? How do I determine how much supply is needed for an army stack of units? If I move into a region with a supply level of 20, how many troops can that supply level support per turn?

[Erik Springelkamp]

Maybe someone can help me with a supply question. I just looked at the manual and Bohemond's beginner's guide to supply. I can see how and how much supply is generated. What I can't determine is how much supply is used per turn per unit. For example, how much supply does a single legion use per turn? How do I determine how much supply is needed for an army stack of units? If I move into a region with a supply level of 20, how many troops can that supply level support per turn?

For forces you can see their supply consumption in the tool-tip of the supply icon on the upper right of the force display.

[Jagger2013]

Thanks Eric. So it looks like I take the supply level of a region and multiply it times 5 for the total food supply points in the region. I can then compare that region food supply number to the supply useage points found from the supply icon in the army force display. If the region number is higher than army supply useage, I am good to go. Extra supply from supply wagons help when I am in a low supply region. Exceptions to supply level would occur if I don't have full military control of the region. Reduce the supply by multiplying my percentage of military control. Also some supply may be drawn from surrounding regions if not enough in current region. Thanks again!

[Ahenobarbus]

Pour bien gagner avec Lucius Cornelius Sylla, c'est de remonter l'Illyrie afin de détruire les forces populares en Italie, de retourner ensuite en Grèce repousser les Pontiques, puis de repartir pour l'Espagne. Il est illusoire de penser qu'on peut gagner en s'occupant de tout les fronts en même temps, surtout si on laisse les Populares occuper l'Italie.

[James D Burns]

I’ve played this scenario for the first time for about 4 years as Pontus and now I’m playing as Sulla once the Pontic game had secured Greece since that pretty much spelled doom for the Romans in that game. As Sulla it took me several years to retake and secure Greece and I’ve just now begun fighting the civil war in Italy in earnest, so this play-through is going to last several years longer than the Pontic play-through did before a decision is reached.

I am really enjoying this scenario. The AI has been fun and challenging in both games so far and I suspect as Marius I will enjoy the scenario just as much one more time. The balance in the scenario is so tight, I suspect human play would be absolutely intense in this scenario for all sides involved.

As Sulla you have a powerhouse leader, but he can’t be everywhere he’s needed and you lack enough additional leadership to really put to use the large number of legions you can potentially build in the opening years. If I play Sulla again, I won’t try and max out the force pool, instead I’ll dump a lot of cash into replacement chits to keep Sulla’s juggernaught topped off with fresh recruits. I’ve taken massive losses in the fighting in Greece and I suspect Italy will be even bloodier. I may even abandon Italy outright to beef up Greece and speed its capture if I play as Sulla again.

I noticed many have been having trouble with supply in this scenario, and I thought I’d chime in to add a tip I’ve learned. Build depots to level 4 in every city you take. It helps a lot to keep your armies fed, just be sure and keep a decent cash reserve to rebuild all the supply wagons you’ll use ASAP so you can push on to your next target as soon as possible.

I “think” armies are auto-destroying depots when you take a city due to the looting rule that says armies will destroy a depot to feed itself if a region does not produce enough supplies when you capture it. There is no announcement of this occurring, but I watched several cities before and after I took them with my large Pontic armies and almost every one was stripped of depots the turn I captured them even though I did not have looting turned on for the stack.

So I started making sure every attacking stack had a minimum of 4 wagons. I then built every city I took back up to 4 (4 is max size I believe as it appears the depot resets to 0 if you build a 5th level so be careful) before moving on and my supply problems really eased up a lot. Adjacent depots will also help boost a regions supply level so put a level 1 depot in any region adjacent to your main stack as well if you can afford it.

Jim

[Franciscus]

On behalf of the team, many thanks!

We are very happy that the many hours we dedicate to this game are giving you enjoyment and pleasure


(PS: Regarding depots, I check and indeed the max level is 4 probably what you did was click on the "raze depot" button - that is very similar to the build depot - right after raising the depot to 4 - in this case there are no build depot and the raze depot button takes the place of it in the UI...)

Regards