Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

[Zenvaro]

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[Zenvaro]

If you afraid that whites are weak now, I can say that they will have more units as reds, but less. And if you afraid that it will be easy starts for REDs...hm..look at here: Denikins Army without DONs on start:

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Then I did only one turn only by Denikin...so...:

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And Borovsky can now became 2 star:

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P.S. Look at the number 134.. yes, 134 turns in Grand up to january 1924:

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[Francescopgg]

Wonderful

I like the extended timeline above all.

is there any specific reason for to choose January 1924 as ending date, or just game balance?

[Zenvaro]

is there any specific reason for to choose January 1924 as ending date, or just game balance?

The name of the game is "... russian civil war 1917-1923" that's why all the 1923 we can play) And of course in the history the last organized struggle was ended in 1923.

[Zenvaro]

Tried a little play by only Denikin's Army and Shkuro Division.. amazing. On the 1 November 1918 there were no red forces on the kuban and caucas..
P.S. poor Georgia...

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But whites are not undefeated and were stopped:

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[Zenvaro]

Aded some options for new fctions. There only a few, but the factions are the few too and it's enough to play:

Anarchists:

To Kill Grigoriev

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Part Mobilization

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To ask Reds for weapon (also you can see anarchists signature here ) and to Raisr more Money

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Ukrainians:

Part Mobilization

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To make an aalience with Poland

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[Zenvaro]

To Raise more Money (with Ukrainian signature)

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If somebody has ideas about options for these two factions, please write about it!

[GUIGUITZA]

some ideas but sorry for poor quality English :

- special contributions of cities (example: 50 millions rubles for ekaternoslav's bourgeois in 1919) if Makhno controls a city

- november 1919: congress of Alexandrovsk gathering peasants and workers wtih a denunciation of the workers and support of peasants = loyalty increases in the countryside and decreases in cities

- Red or white deserters join the bands of makhno (gain of manpower)

- december 1919: mikheiev's betrayal that is stopping by Iakir

- december 1919 participation in the war against Poland: if yes move to the Polish border and alliance with the red (loss of loyalty in Ukraine and MN but gaining supplies), if not (reality) Makhno is outlawed and at war with red

- 18 june 1920 : wangrel's letter for an alliance with whites against trotsky = (reality) the messenger is hanged and sent back to the whites with the letter stapled to the chest or accept and war with reds and alliance with whites

- "self supply" of withe troops = increase loyalty for anarchits and greens

- 27 december 1919: insurrection of ekaternoslav's wiht support of makhno's band versus peltiourist

- 26 november1920 : demand of dissolution of makno's army by frunze = yes (?) or no (war with reds)

- january1921: embuscad of frunze by a band of makhno = he is doing well after a long race pursuit by horse (reality ) or is killed (en game for frunze)

- for greens : november 1920 savinkov raid = a regiment in Belarus

- plenty of pogroms for all the armies ? = gain of money but disorganization

- 1920-1921: crisis of war communism = the population no longer supports restrictions. loss of loyalty in areas under red control in favor of green

- december 1920 : program in 18 points of the union of the laborious peasantry of Tambov against reds = loss of loyalty in areas under red control in favor of green

- may 1920 : call of the anarchist federation of the Altai against reds and wihtes= loss of loyalty in areas under red/withes control in favor of anarchist

...other possible events but more time today

personal point of view:
plenty of anarchist or green revolts insist on the rejection of the Bolsheviks, the landowners and the Jews. it is good not to idealize his movements that are deeply antisemitic "save Russia, hit the youpins",
is a common slogan at the time, a small reminder in the description of the events will not hurt.


I am very close to seeing the result of your work, maybe during the summer holidays would be perfect !

[Zenvaro]

some ideas but sorry for poor quality English :

- special contributions of cities (example: 50 millions rubles for ekaternoslav's bourgeois in 1919) if Makhno controls a city

- november 1919: congress of Alexandrovsk gathering peasants and workers wtih a denunciation of the workers and support of peasants = loyalty increases in the countryside and decreases in cities

- Red or white deserters join the bands of makhno (gain of manpower)

- december 1919: mikheiev's betrayal that is stopping by Iakir

- december 1919 participation in the war against Poland: if yes move to the Polish border and alliance with the red (loss of loyalty in Ukraine and MN but gaining supplies), if not (reality) Makhno is outlawed and at war with red

- 18 june 1920 : wangrel's letter for an alliance with whites against trotsky = (reality) the messenger is hanged and sent back to the whites with the letter stapled to the chest or accept and war with reds and alliance with whites

- "self supply" of withe troops = increase loyalty for anarchits and greens

- 27 december 1919: insurrection of ekaternoslav's wiht support of makhno's band versus peltiourist

- 26 november1920 : demand of dissolution of makno's army by frunze = yes (?) or no (war with reds)

- january1921: embuscad of frunze by a band of makhno = he is doing well after a long race pursuit by horse (reality ) or is killed (en game for frunze)

- for greens : november 1920 savinkov raid = a regiment in Belarus

- plenty of pogroms for all the armies ? = gain of money but disorganization

- 1920-1921: crisis of war communism = the population no longer supports restrictions. loss of loyalty in areas under red control in favor of green

- december 1920 : program in 18 points of the union of the laborious peasantry of Tambov against reds = loss of loyalty in areas under red control in favor of green

- may 1920 : call of the anarchist federation of the Altai against reds and wihtes= loss of loyalty in areas under red/withes control in favor of anarchist

...other possible events but more time today

personal point of view:
plenty of anarchist or green revolts insist on the rejection of the Bolsheviks, the landowners and the Jews. it is good not to idealize his movements that are deeply antisemitic "save Russia, hit the youpins",
is a common slogan at the time, a small reminder in the description of the events will not hurt.


I am very close to seeing the result of your work, maybe during the summer holidays would be perfect !

Thank you very much for so many ideas! I'll think what will be better to realize)

[Zenvaro]

Ukraine is ready now:
New Ukrainian Commanders

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New Ukrainian Troops

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And troops for Ukrainian Galician Army

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[Zenvaro]

Some changes in Red Attack on Ukraine:
Uborevich and Parsky became stronger, but Parsky is not in Kiev, He is in Kharkov.

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Commanders of the Ukrainian Galician Army:

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[Zenvaro]

I started the test Game. I chose the Ukraine and did't do something.
So, the results:
Armenia tries to attack Georgia and Azerbaijan.

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Finns and Estonians attack Reds

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Khotin rebels attack me and Romanians use this chance

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Batka Makhno after trying to attack Taganrog and Rostov tries to care his territory from whites.

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Finns attack Olonets Area

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[Zenvaro]

Siberians have only a few Greens in their back now, but there is a Volga uprising, that help them to return Samara to them and start to attack:

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What are the conclusions? There are the good and the bad sides.
The good are that Fatal years AI is alife and there is a very massive and quick war practically without front and rear. Small AI for new small factions, that I wrote is not so bad. This factions care their territories and trying to attack some close territories.
The bad sides are that my AI is a little bit strange. For example Armenia tried to attack Georgia and Azerbaijan, its armies stood some time, stocks ran out and they gone away. It seems that Fatal Years AI don't know what to do with new factions. For example Southern Whites have taken North Caucasus, but didn't try to attack South Caucasus. Moreover, Georgia took Grozny and Azerbaijan took Derbent, Kizliar.. And whites didn't try to return it, or send some troops there. And every 5-7 turns there are many strange errors. Because of them I have to restart the game, but after it I can continue successfully. I think that it's because of Fatal Years AI files. Now I have played from the November 1918 to August 1919, Western whites lost 60000, Eastern whites lost 50000, reds lost 160000

[Francescopgg]

Very nice to see

Could you post a screen of the map, and one of the factions points?

You have done a very good work so far

[Zenvaro]

Improved AI for new factions in FY style.

Lithuanians and Germans attack Reds

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Caucasian influence

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don't joke with Finns

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Makhno likes Crimea

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Fallen people June 1919

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[Zenvaro]

Caucasus in fire:

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Makhno takes Rostov:

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[Zenvaro]

First version of the mode released. The link is in the 1st post.

[ERISS]

And just discovering it! yeah thanks for your work!

[ERISS]

:) I hope only Kolchak is not happy) By the way, I think it will be hard to play Eastern Whites now. Army of anarchists in Siberia, Nobody can help KOMUCh in the beginning, many historical insurrections in Siberia and Baikal, Japan's with Semenov. It seems that it will be easy to repeat the fate of the Siberian Army.

And that should be the balance needed for the game! As at now EastWhite players does not really care reaching Moscow, they have rather to reinforce their towns and wait the more defensivly winning by the points in the end.
So, when red player knows this, he has to always rush the Eastern Whites, no choice in strategy.

[ERISS]

- plenty of pogroms for all the armies ? = gain of money but disorganization
personal point of view:
plenty of anarchist or green revolts insist on the rejection of the Bolsheviks, the landowners and the Jews. it is good not to idealize his movements that are deeply antisemitic "save Russia, hit the youpins",
is a common slogan at the time, a small reminder in the description of the events will not hurt.

Maybe, but your mod could be forbidden. So you may have to lessen your work on this matter:
"PhilThib: In the licence agreement, such things are prohibited.
Therefore it won't be in the game because that would constitue a breach"
viewtopic.php?f=284&t=19251#p192159

[Zenvaro]

:) I hope only Kolchak is not happy) By the way, I think it will be hard to play Eastern Whites now. Army of anarchists in Siberia, Nobody can help KOMUCh in the beginning, many historical insurrections in Siberia and Baikal, Japan's with Semenov. It seems that it will be easy to repeat the fate of the Siberian Army.

And that should be the balance needed for the game! As at now EastWhite players does not really care reaching Moscow, they have rather to reinforce their towns and wait the more defensivly winning by the points in the end.
So, when red player knows this, he has to always rush the Eastern Whites, no choice in strategy.

I saw many of your posts and really happy that you returned and can test and rate the mod) and to give some advices)

Yes, I'm playing as Reds now and I can say that whites of the East have to use many forces in the rear. In the front they have strong army, but they can only defend now. As in the history, if you destroy their main forces, I think their front will roll back sharply to their rear, where there are greens, anarchists and japans.
Also now there is a task to fight with new countries, that can attack you in the rear and in the small territories they are really strong.

[Francescopgg]

Too much a good work I can't download it because the site told me "download limit reached"

What can I do to play it?

[Zenvaro]

Too much a good work I can't download it because the site told me "download limit reached"

What can I do to play it?

I'll try to use google disk now

[ERISS]

If you have some idias to make something else, please write about it. Or it can be some information. For example some events, options, or some materials on the graphic part.

_ A work you can't do, for being huge: the so said "no-treaty of BrestLitovsk" scenario/red 'choice'
And so Belgium could be added.

_ The Dybenko affair: He was the "3rd warchief" with Grigoriev and Makhno, but was the more bolchevik. He disobeied and went to Crimea instead of defending against the Whites (and so makhnov and red blamed each other for the hole, being traitors).
Adding this event is maybe a false good idea. But it may make a better balance for the south whites?
. Makhno saved by a red pilot
. warning in AAR

_ Adding big pools of machine-guns, at least as flavor (MGs are already included hard in the engine), as reports often talked about them (they were some new, sometimes counted as artillery). I know many were gathered in the end defense of fort Perekov guarding Crimea, and there was a big platoon of jewish in Makhnov'.
. From beta forum:
" Orel:
Machine guns, the testers said there was too much micromanagement. Currently machine guns are included as part of the damage caused by infantry and cavalry regiments.
ERISS:
They even ingame can be deadly against charging cavalry. But they are hidden in the engine, like the many makhnovists tatchanka which seem missing are hidden in being made mounted infantry (I think they use the MG feature, If not it's missing).
I think there should be some MG company unit to be made, the same way there is some Tatchanka very unit. These 'non-divisioned' companies should be slow, between infantry and artillery movement, and spend much ammo. So they would be added MGs pack mainly put to defend guard a town/fort (it should cost too much ammo to attack with, often using them), like it was made in RCW when they know they soon have to repulse a big attack. They should have a special feature, like the lone tatchanka unit has.
With this, the MG unit will be present, and it should not add so management. "

[ERISS]

(BlackFlag in the sides we can play) Eriss will be happy

I wondered: What? there is a new flag, that's all, I'm not so a fetishist.
lol, it took me 15 seconds to reach the meaning of this..

[ERISS]

- 18 june 1920 : wangrel's letter for an alliance with whites against trotsky = (reality) the messenger is hanged and sent back to the whites with the letter stapled to the chest or accept and war with reds and alliance with whites

An alliance with the White is impossible, at least with Makhno alive, but he won't oppose what people want.
So, if White alliance is done, a cost is losing Makhno, who no longer agrees to be leader.
A big difference between Red and White, is that the base of the Red army is people, but the base of White army is aristocracy/bougeoisy. Red soldiers said it: makhnovist and red soldiers were the same.
What can be done instead, is a random event given to the whites when red and black are at war, and white is commended by Wrangle: a lost makhnov unit behind white lines becomes victim of combined red and white propagandas, both telling black is allied with white. Surprised not being shot, it is commanded for one turn by the white against red.

personal point of view:
plenty of anarchist or green revolts insist on the rejection of the Bolsheviks, the landowners and the Jews. it is good not to idealize his movements that are deeply antisemitic

You mean talking mainly about the green. Makhnovist movement is only a part of all "pan-russian" anarchism. White disguised as makhnovist to raid jews in order they quit supporting makhnovists. I even suspect red to accuse their bolshevik commanders being anarchists so their bad politics behavior (like killing japanese civilians) to not be brought to the Party. Some anarchist may be ruthless or racists, but it is far more true with ukrainian nationalists, whites and green.

antisemitic, a small reminder in the description of the events will not hurt.

But it is forbidden for this game. It may ban this mod from here, and even elsewhere if publicized there (but I don't think Ageod would send lawiers..).

[Zenvaro]

It's really hard to fight with new contries now. By the way often you have only to defend. But it's real:

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[ERISS]

A little bit about new anarchists commanders:
Marusia Nikiforova Dcht

She was already ingame (but named Maria), but I think adding her again like this will not harm the game.
(And like about many war women, many popular accounts said they had several lives, even often survived their death.)
From beta forum:
" Andatiep: Late december 1918, when all is unlocked in Odessa, there will be the FRA and WHI troops inside the city, and the little Maria ANA force outside, 'just pulled back from the town'. Both will have very low cohesion : I hope for immediate retreat of the ANA to not unlock the FRA-GRE stack, in the case of the WHI are not supposed to move it if they didn't activated the good option .
The little ANA force is named 'Maria Nikiforova Detachement'. The name will then disappear once the player will merge it somewhere with other ANA forces in Ukraine. Like IRL. "

[ERISS]

About another Marusia:
" of the Tambov rebellion with the detachment of the anarchist Marussia (this Marussia is not the fierce anarchist Marussia Nikiforova, but one Marussia Kosova, who led a large Antonovist detachment. In January 1921 her group and a Makhnovist unit operated together in the steppes of Donbass steppes. On July 14-15, she was separated from Makhno and went to Taganrog county. On July 22nd the Bolshevik leader Eideman insisted on her execution). "
https://libcom.org/history/maslakov-mut ... ovists-don

[ERISS]

I saw many of your posts and really happy that you returned and can test and rate the mod) and to give some advices)

I'm 75% talker, 20% modder, 5% player. I almost don't test, what I say is what I read and heard of other players. i'm rather a reporter of other sayings.