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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:28 pm

I'm playing a new 3-way pbem as the Reds and we are approaching 1919 and it is going very well indeed. Very different than the vanilla game--most challenging. Some comments sent in-game:

Late Oct/18: Red forces in the south are finally recovering and regrouping somewhat. Substantial red troops are battling various green forces all over the place. Strange that these environmentalists resort to violent means... ;)

Early Nov/18: The eastern Whites score a huge victory at Perm. Gen Kamanev ordered his men to fight to the last and they did... and they all died. Kamanev escaped across the river however and was rewarded by Lenin with a new command who greatly appreciates the undeviating ruthlessness of the man.

Tukhachevsky has appeared in the south to deal with these Cossacks. His orders are to torch every insurrectionist Cossack village on his line of march, and his orders come directly from Trotsky overseeing things with him in his train south of Tsaritsyn.

The Caucasus people enter the fray, a huge departure from the vanilla game. This should be interesting.

Late Nov/18: The Armistice in Europe is in effect and changes in the west will complicate an already complex situation.
Krasnovodsk on the Caspian shore is finally captured by the Reds, maintaining a toehold in Asia after early setbacks. North of there the Reds hang on to the west banks of the frozen Volga and Kama rivers.
The historical research put into this mod is most impressive.

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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:59 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:
(Skull&bones flag)
"DEATH to all who stand in the way of freedom for working people!"

Some says it is a cosak Petlioura socialist flag, others say it was allied with Makhno.
It was almost same troops and zone than Pelioura, but said anarchists (but were they as killing jews?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svyryd_Kotsur
Makhno flag was plain black. Makhnovist units were black with some text, and sometimes black&red.
There was never skull&bones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_ ... ther_flags
So a mod should make the makhnovists flags like "ANA" written white (or red when allied?) on black.
Last edited by ERISS on Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:03 pm

I gather there was a wide variety. Fair enough and good to know. Thanks.

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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:57 pm

Carrying on with our mod playtest: it's early August 1919. If we get further on we'll think about putting up a proper AAR but I am posting here with an eye towards the mod designer noticing that his work is still being played out and appreciated. And perhaps reappearing at some point to be interrogated about specific WAD issues. ;)

First off, this is a monster of a mod compared to the vanilla game, especially for the Red player. Simply too many differences to list out right now. The historical research is obsessive and much appreciated. So a few more reports from the Reds played by myself:

Dec I/18: A brutal winter sets in and the Germans have vacated Ukraine. What will appear in their stead remains to be seen.
Elsewhere the front is mostly frozen in and relatively inactive, other than the GEA forces (Green Environmental Anarchists) raising hell all over the map.
Trotsky and Tukhachevsky were glad to see the back of Stalin at Tsaritsyn as Lenin called him back to Moscow... good riddance! (and I note in passing that unlike the vanilla RUS there is no Stalin commander unit in the mod).

Dec II/18: Some major micro-management as the fronts expand across the Ukraine and Reds marshal their forces from the hinterlands to contain this. Other roving groups of "green-killers" are trying to contain the green contagion which is all over the map at this point, almost more of a problem than the Whites themselves. WW I is over but the war in Russia continues.
And rumours of black Anarchists in the south.

Jan I/19: A new year of war and the brutal winter continues as battles swirl in the south around Ukraine. Wrangle and Tukhachevsky, the two most talented officers in the war, face off at Tsaritsyn and the first round goes to the latter as he scores a significant victory over the Whites. Red forces in the north rush to block a new White threat from Estonia. Red workers in factories work full-tilt and gain an initial incentive for over-producing their daily quota: an additional 200gr of bread. Whack-a-mole vs the Greens continues.

Jan II/19: Kharkov is taken by the Reds and an uneasy truce exists with the Makhnovists. It's a nice effect that keeps me from moving south from Kharkov for now as the black Anarchists are so strong a stab in the back could prove fatal. But Kiev is next on the list and no anarchists there, just the ever troublesome Ukrainians. Elsewhere more of the same as the brutal winter continues.

Feb I/19: More of the same with pesky greens who take multiple assaults to get rid of. Trotsky wants to spread the Revolution to Europe. For now it's time to get the workers in their factories increasing production of guns and ammunition to the Red armies on all points of the compass--a "revolution under siege" indeed.

“We were always for revolutionary war. The bayonet is an essential necessity for introducing communism.”
- Karl Radek


Mar II/19: The rivers are thawing from south to north and the Reds are slowly reducing the Green Environmental Anarchist strongholds. Things are afoot in the Donbas and Ukraine (what else is new?). The new detailed leader characteristics are rather mind-boggling. Tachankas can now be built everywhere. The Reds now get Army training HQs to whip the workers into shape. The maxim machinegun units are also a nice touch.

May I/19: The Reds lost over 100,000 men last turn in 4 major battles and lost -14 NM. The most surprising was at Tsaritsyn where Tukhachevsky was up against Wrangle (7-5-7 cdr vs 5-6-5) and got one of the worst AGEOD battle results I have seen, taking 61k in losses while inflicting a mere 9k. A general rated better than Wrangle at this point in the war, and fighting on his own turf in a major city. Even more surprising was one of the Red's better generals in Kiev (Frunz 4-5-3) vs one of the worst generals in the game (Ukrainian Gen. Petliura 1-0-0) and taking 30k losses while inflicting 10k. My East White opponent Àlvar reminded me that my relatively low NMorale was likely the culprit. Since then I have been pushing propaganda morale increases every turn I can afford it.

Other battles brought the losses up over 100k men for one turn and the larger problem for me now is that the main armies have been gutted and as yet I am unable to build the usual worker bdes available in the vanilla game, over a year into the war. Is this WAD? This limits me to trained up workers in the cities. Eek.

Jun II/19: Nothing too momentous this turn as the chaos continues all over the map with numerous small battles between "ants."
A new foe appears in the NW as the Germans pile on and attack as well.

July I/19: Tukhachevsky breaks out of the trap at Tsaritsyn and utterly guts the White armies capturing wads of supplies, air, and transmission units. That's one dire threat dealt with, only 4 to go! Voronezh holds on against the Cossacks. The East Whites take the important industrial town of Izhevsk and are advancing across the Volga further south. Not surprising since I had to strip these fronts with everything I had to really crush the main threat at Tsaritsyn from Wrangle and the Whites. The first Red cavalry brigades can be built. Ceaseless Red propaganda keeps the masses in line.

July II/19: A tumultuous turn as the Whites around Tsaritsyn take a further pounding. Further north the East Whites take Saratov but Frunze's Red Army rails in and drives White general Molchanov back across the Volga. White diehards continue to hold the city center. Further north Simbirsk has fallen to the Whites but Syzran continues to hold.

But the Anarchists are now at war with the Reds and, even worse, the Poles have entered the war and are about to attack in the west.

Aug I/19: The Poles are held off at Minsk thanks to the timely arrival of the famous Russian general from WW I--Brusilov. Red Guard units, as opposed to worker units, can now be built and a horde of them have been called up to face the new threats. Perhaps new brigades can finally be formed with these??--we shall see. Elsewhere fairly quiet although the East Whites take Syzran, while the Reds under Frunze recapture Saratov on the Volga. I've handled the south well but I am building up in the north to counter an obvious advance of the Eastern Whites from Perm. I can give territory to some extent everywhere, but preventing the East and west Whites from linking has to be key in this.

Aug II/19: Momentous battles on all points of the compass for the Reds.
East Whites smash Red defenses at Aralsk but further south the main Red Army in Asia takes Bukhara and Emir Alim Khan I believe is captured, his forces wiped out. Here's a pic of the colourful chap:
Alim Khan.jpg
Alim Khan.jpg (23.83 KiB) Viewed 82220 times


Further north Tukhachevsky defeats the Whites at Syzran but does not manage to recapture the key city on the Volga. Various battles on the western frontiers. The NW Whites are rebuffed west of St. Petersburg, and Brusilov hangs on to Minsk. Red partisans swarm all over Ukraine basically destroying the rail net ahead of the advancing Poles.

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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Wed May 10, 2023 1:06 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:to be interrogated about specific WAD issues.
Dec I/18: Trotsky and Tukhachevsky were glad to see the back of Stalin at Tsaritsyn as Lenin called him back to Moscow... good riddance! (and I note in passing that unlike the vanilla RUS there is no Stalin commander unit in the mod).

I wonder why Stal was removed, as he worked as a general, like several others who were worst than him as a chaos bringer in the Red army, some becoming quite independent warlords but were welcome back in the army. Stalin had a good geo-strategist sight (defend Staritsyn and Lviv), despite he was bad in the organisation (what was the more important strenght of Trotsky).

Dec II/18: roving groups of "green-killers" are trying to contain the green contagion which is all over the map at this point, almost more of a problem than the Whites themselves.

Yup, 'commies' had to fight against the people so "their" Party takes the rule.

Mar II/19: The new detailed leader characteristics are rather mind-boggling. Tachankas can now be built everywhere. The Reds now get Army training HQs to whip the workers into shape. The maxim machinegun units are also a nice touch.

. Tachanka was easy technology, but only makhnovists had the best use of them. So the whites had not the spirit for the good use, and reds had to study the anarchists but couldn't use them as efficiently (it needed great coordination whith main cavalry as a screen, and the few red cavalry prefered using armored cars). So, if whites and reds build tatchankas, they should have only about 1/3 organisation for the whites, and 2/3 for the reds.
. MGs are already hard calculated in AGE engine. But I always wanted those MGs counters (like tatchankas who are already mounted MGs) as slow pools of MGs made for strong defensive position (some like a garison artillery). So, very slow, they should not go in 'attack forces' (who have already their MGs).

May I/19: battles brought the losses up over 100k men for one turn and the larger problem for me now is that the main armies have been gutted and as yet I am unable to build the usual worker bdes available in the vanilla game, over a year into the war. Is this WAD? This limits me to trained up workers in the cities. Eek.

The snowballing defeat was already a known problem in the vanilia game and some answers were buit.
But here I feel maybe this was made worst by the MGs, bringing non historical death as they are dobling the game engine MGs.

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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Tue May 16, 2023 11:13 pm

The three-way pbem continues to March 1920 with notes below. Comments by my opponents are indicated WH3 (Eastern Whites) and WHI (Western Whites):

Oct I 1919: Reds are being hammered from all directions.
As expected an extremely bloody battle was fought east of Kazan with neither side entirely victorious. Whites are prevented (barely) from retaking Syzran as they somehow avoided heavy Red riverine interdiction and got across. Red forces at Viatsk in the north manage to hold off the Whites.
Once again the Poles in Minsk inexplicably holds off Red assaults, but Red armies manage to hold off the NW White thrust on Petrograd just south of the city. General Svechnikov has been named a Hero of the Soviet Union by Lenin for this heroic defense.
Still not able to raise infantry brigades with intrinsic artillery--are you Whites able to do this? [ans: no, it is intended this way as you build up raw conscripts to soldiers who can fight.]
Also unlike vanilla RUS (so far) the Reds are not able to increase their RR Cap which greatly inhibits reactions... WAD? [ans: clearly this is done away with and RR cap increases automatically over time.]

WH3 comment: It hasn't been a good turn for the Siberians. They got a couple of victories, yes, but with some pyrrhic victories like these more and their cause is doomed. Bolsheviks are getting stronger and stronger so difficult times ahead.
No brigades for me either since the Komuch brigades of the beginning. My railroad capacity has been increased along the turns but without any option to do so, I think it was related to the Allied deliveries through Vladivostok, but I'm not sure about that.
WHI comment: Whites do not have option to build railroad or brigades. Factories similar, but the rest of the production is not.

Oct II 1919: Petrograd is saved it seems and the Whites driven back. The Poles are finally driven from Minsk. Reds push east from Kazan and consolidate their hold on Syzran further south on the Volga. In Asia the local warlords are driven into the hills as the Reds parade through Tashkent and Samarkand.

Nov I 1919: Red fleets are defeated on the Volga by the Whites. The threat against Tsaritsyn builds. Whites blocked from Petrograd, and the White Asian armies take big losses in the hills east of Samarkand and Tashkent.

Nov II 1919: Huge battles against Amir Khan in Asia east of Tashkent.
Reds hang on to Tsaritsyn inflicting stiff losses on Whites.
White Army of Yudenich south of Petrograd avoids a large red trap and slips away to the south.
Another brutal winter is in the offing.

WHI comment: Yudenich needed to rebuild, but the downside, not enough Red losses to recruit prisoners into the White Armies.
As to Tsaritsyn, ouch. But, four leaders gained promotions in the bitter battle.

Dec I 1919: Pushing for 1920 the signal victory for the Reds is holding off the Whites at Viatka in the north east to prevent the east and west Whites from linking up. It was close.
Elsewhere the NW Whites continue to evade Red traps to eliminate this threat. Huge battles in Asia to eliminate the Whites east of Tashkent and Samarkand. Tsaritsyn hangs on, various other small battles, nothing too momentous. Another harsh winter is coming in for all sides to prepare for what has to be the Year of Decision: 1920.

WH3 comment: The Siberians are struggling lately, and the defeat in Viatka didn't help to change things.
WHI comment: I think Yudenich is dead. An interesting flaw of this mod, all the Northwestern White leaders who were wounded, ended up in the Kuban instead of their own Pskov. So they set out on a winter's march to join their own army.
Tsaritsyn is still on the bucket list of the Southern Whites.

Dec II 1919: Bloodbath at Kharkov but the Reds repel the White advance. Tsaritsyn still under siege. Whites defeated at Luga but White advance on Petrograd has been stopped for now. Reds driven from Samara area but consolidate their hold on Central Asia.

WH3 comment: The Japanese suffered a severe defeat and this means that finally the Siberians can see the end of the threat of Semenov and the Japanese in the Far East. On the other hand there are a lot of anarchist partisans active both in Zabaikal and Vladivostok areas.
The victory came with lots of Japanese prisoners and it is funny to think that by enabling the option to recruit prisoners, thousands of them will join the ranks of the Siberians and fight for the restoration of the Holy Mother Russia.
WHI comment: The EP values are very odd in this version. I can make Regional Decision selections which subtract EP, but then if I remove the decision the EP cost remains. It makes it very challenging to decide the best use of resources.

Jan I 1920: The new year begins with heavy battles in the north at Viatka and Luga with the Reds hanging on.
Huge battle at Tsaritsyn in the south and again the Reds hang on. Elsewhere the price to move and fight in winter is too high to deal with. For now.

WH3 comment: The harsh winter makes troop movement difficult, so a relatively quiet turn for the Siberians with some rearguard action against the ever present anarchists.
WHI comment: In the South hope rises as minor gains are made. In the Northwest, there is small hope.

Jan II 1920: Quiet on all fronts except for the howling blizzards; the exception however was a Red victory at Luga, one gained at a high cost as one of our best generals Brusilov was killed in battle.

WH3 comment: Vladivostok is finally cleared from Semenov/Japanese units and now it is only a matter to clean the last remnants of the Japanese expeditionary force after many turns of struggle in the Far East. I think the historical option is not outlawing Semenov but it has a cost of VP every turn and areas like Zabaikal are outside Siberian control while some cities along the rail are directly occupied by the Japanese.
WHI comment: Kind of a stalemate for now, but armies are gaining advisors.
One thing very different from the base game. In Gold any rail unit will convert a rail to friendly in one turn. Now rail units seem to have no impact on loyalty of the rails.

Feb I 1920: A much-needed big Red victory still eludes but a solid riposte at Tsaritsyn will do for now. NW Whites retreating back to Pskov. Large Red partisan uprising in Armavir. Eastern front quiet.

WH3 comment: Aerial battles are becoming ferocious lately as both sides now have several air units on the field.
WHI comment: Dang, Tsaritsyn looked like a ripe plumb. I see know it is a sour apple with a worm inside.

Feb II 1920: Tukhachevsky drives off Wrangle from Tsaritsyn with a solid victory and Red armies in the NW converge on Pskov. The brutal winter continues as the Japanese evacuate Russia.

WH3 comment: Reds are getting very strong, indeed. This is a nice change, the Gold version both White factions are stronger than historically while I had the impression the Reds were weaker. About the Japanese, the evacuation of their forces is easy as they have no troops left.

Mar I 1920: Reds are on the march. Tukhachevsky attempts to run down the retreating Wrangle SW of Tsaritsyn and fails. Red General Svechnikov assaults Pskov and decimates White forces who still hold the city but not for long surely. Voronezh holds off a White attack. Spring is coming.

Mar II 1920: Reds take Pskov in the NW and there are rumours of a possible peace treaty with Estonia, and in Asia the Reds under General Sediakin lunge north and recapture Aralsk.

WHI comment: So much for Yudenich's adventure. Seems to be in the past. Southern Whites double down, as we say today.

Apr I 1920: A new season begins as the snows disappears and mud reigns. The Whites get rebuffed at Kharkov, elsewhere quiet.
I was getting beaten badly early on in Central Asia so I designated reinforcements there across the Caspian from Astrakhan. The main immediate goal was to capture Achkhabad as you can only build Red Turkmen infantry and cavalry there. I put a lot into building them up once captured. The various factions down there have kept me heavily patrolling the entire RR line from the Caspian or I would have more troops at Aralsk.

WHI comment: Whites continue in the South with lots of hope, but the Northwest looks hopeless.

Apr II 1920: As with the British *win* at Jutland the Red Fleet near Samara engages in the biggest riverine battle of the war and drives the surprisingly strong White fleet off while losing far more ships than the White navy.
Red armies converge SE of Kharkov hoping to trap the Whites against the Red gunboat-controlled river Donets. Red forces advance into Estonia and across the Volga. Elsewhere quiet.

WHI comment: Good bye Yudenich and company. Petrograd was never a White goal after all, really. trust me, no fake news here.
Southern White fleets still have steam and armor, so we will see about the naval war. The good White news, the Kuban is rife with White recruits and the Crimea is a save haven. Meanwhile, an attempt into Central Asia has been born of White ships on the Caspian Sea.

May I 1920: Numerous Red victories but nary a +NM to be had.
Tukhachevsky charges across the Donets and takes Donetsk while Sytin's army crosses the Dniepr and takes Ekaterinoslav. Kazantsky's partisan army clears the Whites from Novorossysk but fails to take the city. NW Reds under Svechnikov advance into Estonia and Latvia. Red columns advance slowly in the east across the Volga.

Overall Comments on the Mod:

It's hard to see wanting to go back and play the vanilla RUS in future unless some major flaw appears, either in terms of historicity or playability. It's a very engrossing run-through! I wrote some very detailed player comments for all sides for the vanilla game but much of it is out the window given the differences here. I've been playing these games out for over a half century and am well used to two-sided conflicts with the occasional foray into muti-players (think Diplomacy, or RISK) but the Russian Civil War as it is amply portrayed here, goes beyond a three-way contest by under-girding it with a chaotic realm of anarchistic revolt across the entire map that the three main players have to contend with, at times almost more so than the main enemy side(s).
The more I delve into the historical minutiae involved in the research and changes Zenvaro made in this, the more impressed I am at the informed work and dedication displayed.

Finally: I do hope Zenvaro reappears at some point, at least to soak up some more praise for his inestimable work.
Last edited by Stauffenberg on Wed May 17, 2023 7:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Tue May 16, 2023 11:33 pm

I wonder why Stal was removed, as he worked as a general, like several others who were worst than him as a chaos bringer in the Red army, some becoming quite independent warlords but were welcome back in the army. Stalin had a good geo-strategist sight (defend Staritsyn and Lviv), despite he was bad in the organisation (what was the more important strenght of Trotsky).


ERISS, I think I have to disagree as Stalin's main forte was political (essentially manoeuvring behind the scenes to fabricate evidence of treason against opponents and have them stabbed in the back) and in the main was widely perceived as interfering in military matters in the Tsaritsyn area [regularly disobeying orders from Moscow and confiscating supplies being sent through to the Caucasus). He was recalled in November 1918 due to this insubordination. His presence however did galvanize the defense of the city and it is well represented in RUS and SoW; however, I still think this complicated situation needs further refinement.


Tachanka was easy technology, but only makhnovists had the best use of them[/u]. So the whites had not the spirit for the good use, and reds had to study the anarchists but couldn't use them as efficiently (it needed great coordination whith main cavalry as a screen, and the few red cavalry prefered using armored cars). So, if whites and reds build tatchankas, they should have only about 1/3 organisation for the whites, and 2/3 for the reds.
. MGs are already hard calculated in AGE engine. But I always wanted those MGs counters (like tatchankas who are already mounted MGs) as slow pools of MGs made for strong defensive position (some like a garison artillery). So, very slow, they should not go in 'attack forces' (who have already their MGs).

The snowballing defeat was already a known problem in the vanilia game and some answers were buit.
But here I feel maybe this was made worst by the MGs, bringing non historical death as they are dobling the game engine MGs.


That's very interesting to note. The one turn my armies got massacred as the Reds left me very perplexed as the results went far beyond the well-known capricious AGEOD combat results

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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Mon May 22, 2023 1:28 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:. WHI comment: The EP values are very odd in this version. I can make Regional Decision selections which subtract EP, but then if I remove the decision the EP cost remains. It makes it very challenging to decide the best use of resources.
. WHI comment: One thing very different from the base game. In Gold any rail unit will convert a rail to friendly in one turn. Now rail units seem to have no impact on loyalty of the rails.

I guess both are bugs, the modder forgot to adress those.

WH3 comment: Reds are getting very strong, indeed. This is a nice change, the Gold version both White factions are stronger than historically while I had the impression the Reds were weaker.

Overall Comments on the Mod:
It's hard to see wanting to go back and play the vanilla RUS in future unless some major flaw appears, either in terms of historicity or playability. It's a very engrossing run-through! I wrote some very detailed player comments for all sides for the vanilla game but much of it is out the window given the differences here. the Russian Civil War as it is amply portrayed here, goes beyond a three-way contest by under-girding it with a chaotic realm of anarchistic revolt across the entire map that the three main players have to contend with, at times almost more so than the main enemy side(s).
The more I delve into the historical minutiae involved in the research and changes Zenvaro made in this, the more impressed I am at the informed work and dedication displayed.
Finally: I do hope Zenvaro reappears at some point, at least to soak up some more praise for his inestimable work.

Yes, I almost didn't play RUS game, and never this mod, but it seems better, at least historically: and it is my wondering about the balance of the game, so it remains an actual game (no more fun if whites are always losers).

Stauffenberg wrote:Stalin's main forte was political (essentially manoeuvring behind the scenes to fabricate evidence of treason against opponents and have them stabbed in the back) and in the main was widely perceived as interfering in military matters in the Tsaritsyn area [regularly disobeying orders from Moscow and confiscating supplies being sent through to the Caucasus). He was recalled in November 1918 due to this insubordination. His presence however did galvanize the defense of the city and it is well represented in RUS and SoW; however, I still think this complicated situation needs further refinement.

Yes, but he was not the only one lone wolf in the Red army, like Pavel Dybenko (he is ingame as a common general) who went warlord of Crimae instead of obeying, so the Red lost Ukraine (he was to be a reserve, but had left when he was needed to fill an unexpected hole). I think like him Stalin has to be ingame, but both (and probably others) are to be warnt and scripted.

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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Mon May 22, 2023 4:11 pm

Continuing on with the stealth AAR:

Late May/20:
Syzran on the Volga falls to the eastern Whites. Novorossysk on the Black sea falls to a Red partisan army. Tsaritsyn is invested yet again by Wrangle. Tukhachevsky consolidates the Red hold on the Donbass and Cherkassy on the Dniepr falls to the Reds. More advances into Estonia and Latvia.

WHI: I guess the Western Whites are obsessed with Tsaritsyn, but you gotta have a plan and stick to it. Right?
WH3: The capture of Syzran is a small hope in the middle of an increasingly difficult situation for the Siberians, their positions in the Samara region are under heavy pressure.

Early Jun/20:
Summer at last and the ground has dried. Tsaritsyn hangs on yet again. Major riverine battles in the Volga and Don. A large Red army is advancing north from Asia. Red forces move close to Kiev and Riga. Red commissars move into the Far East to subvert the people against their imperialist puppet stooges.

WHI: I am pretty sure Southern White offensives are out. They only seem to break even on defense, but lose massively on the offense. So, as one might imagine, the defense if the investment of choice.

Late Jun/20:
A momentous turn as Tukhachevsky storms into Taganrog and Rostov with a large number of tanks and artillery capturing a large amount of supplies, guns and armoured trains. The tide has turned in the West it seems. Near Kiev Red forces hang on against strong counter-attacks. Sediakin's army moves further north from Asia, elsewhere quiet.
Re fleets I had thought I had it figured out but you seem to be able to move across at will which makes me think that depleted fleets can't block, or else even one invisible appearance of the enemy fleet will stop the block. Really not sure. I've had many examples of river sections that indicate they are now blockaded... but enemy forces move across regardless.

WHI: Rostov was a blow. We will see if recovery is possible.
WH3: In our game, you achieved the blocking of the river for land troops a couple of times, because if I wanted to move my forces from one side to another of the Volga the game calculated a big detour to the first crossing without naval presence. On other occasions in spite of your naval presence the path through the river was cleared.

Early Jul/20:
A momentous turn in the south as an all-out counter-attack by the Whites on Rostov is driven off with heavy losses both sides. Ekaterinoslav hangs on against White attacks. Major naval battles in the lower Don near Rostov. Elsewhere quiet.

WHI: The fighting in the south continues to be strong. Command control errors have hopefully been corrected.
WH3: In spite of little action in the East, it is very clear that initiative is in Red's hands while the Siberians try to cope with all the threats to their positions.

Late Jul/20:
Svechnikov's Red Army, transferred from the Baltic at great expense and time, suffers a disastrous defeat against the east Whites at Syzran. Gen. Sediakov at Aktjubinsk south of the Urals does better and holds off another strong White attack and it is a complete bloodbath for both sides, combined casualties some 45,000 men.
Wrangle attempts again to take Rostov and is driven off with stiff losses. Riverine battles on the Don south of the city, and Kamenev's Red Army SE of Kiev beats off assaults and holds their ground. In the NW Red armies take Daugavapils and move closer to Riga.

WHI: Dang it. I guess Wrangle's role in the history books has just been downgraded.

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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Sun Jun 11, 2023 10:46 pm

Carrying on with this informal AAR from late May 1920 to February 1921

To recap:
--Reds finally gave up on trying to capture Kiev as Ukr gen Petluria dishes out defeat after defeat, with his combat values remaining at 1-0-0. The designer has given some sort of hidden bias here and I would be very interested to hear his WAD rationale. Red launched and lost some 7 battles, losing 200 k men in all.

Elsewhere Riga is captured by the Reds for the points and I am as yet completely untempted to try any of the political options ("Peace with Estonia, Peace with Ajerbaijan" etc as the -NM cost is prohibitive and I fail to see the advantages... yet.

Strong Red forces are assembled under Tukhachevsky and storm into the Donbas, also capturing Rostov. Wrangle is driven off from Tsaritsyn once again but drives the Reds back over the Don at Rostov.
Eastern Whites attack across the Kama and Volga taking Izhevsk but are prevented from taking Kazan or linking with the northern whites. They also recapture the important Volga city of Syzran.

A huge green uprising takes over the city of Voronezh and the Reds scramble to deal with this and manage to crush it completely within 2 turns. It is noted that the eastern Whites are radically stronger here than in the vanilla game.
The Northern Whites, after an extremely quiet game, finally drive south and capture Vologda. The Reds again marshall their forces using their interior lines and manage to promptly drive them back north. If the region just SE of Vologda were to be taken by the Whites my entire supply line to the major Red army blocking the WH3 advance from Perm would be cut off.

Early February 1921:
A long brutal struggle in this 4th winter of the war and we are not even half way through it! It's turn 65 and 70 turns remain. Other than the Kiev boondoggle I am not seeing any major flaws. The changes and refinements are too many to list out here. Many subtle changes with leaders and forces.

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Zenvaro
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:13 pm

Thanks to everyone who continues to play the mod, leaveы comments and supports! I will briefly answer a couple of questions that were asked here. I do not plan to continue working on the mod, since it seems to me that most of it has already been done. I have ideas and plans, but the problem is that I am limited to this outdated, not giving all the functionality that I need, and partially buggy engine that cannot even be edited. Thus, I had the idea to write my own analogue of the game on some of the modern engines. The game is also based on the civil war in Russia, with many similar features, but still with its own look and new features. This is just at the level of thoughts and plans, but I decided to share them.
P.S. I'm alive and well, everything is fine. Слава Україні! и Жыве Беларусь!
Last edited by Zenvaro on Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Zenvaro
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:18 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:Carrying on with this informal AAR from late May 1920 to February 1921

To recap:
--Reds finally gave up on trying to capture Kiev as Ukr gen Petluria dishes out defeat after defeat, with his combat values remaining at 1-0-0. The designer has given some sort of hidden bias here and I would be very interested to hear his WAD rationale. Red launched and lost some 7 battles, losing 200 k men in all.

Elsewhere Riga is captured by the Reds for the points and I am as yet completely untempted to try any of the political options ("Peace with Estonia, Peace with Ajerbaijan" etc as the -NM cost is prohibitive and I fail to see the advantages... yet.

Strong Red forces are assembled under Tukhachevsky and storm into the Donbas, also capturing Rostov. Wrangle is driven off from Tsaritsyn once again but drives the Reds back over the Don at Rostov.
Eastern Whites attack across the Kama and Volga taking Izhevsk but are prevented from taking Kazan or linking with the northern whites. They also recapture the important Volga city of Syzran.

A huge green uprising takes over the city of Voronezh and the Reds scramble to deal with this and manage to crush it completely within 2 turns. It is noted that the eastern Whites are radically stronger here than in the vanilla game.
The Northern Whites, after an extremely quiet game, finally drive south and capture Vologda. The Reds again marshall their forces using their interior lines and manage to promptly drive them back north. If the region just SE of Vologda were to be taken by the Whites my entire supply line to the major Red army blocking the WH3 advance from Perm would be cut off.

Early February 1921:
A long brutal struggle in this 4th winter of the war and we are not even half way through it! It's turn 65 and 70 turns remain. Other than the Kiev boondoggle I am not seeing any major flaws. The changes and refinements are too many to list out here. Many subtle changes with leaders and forces.

Great AAR and Game! It was really cool and thank you very much!

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Nikel
Posts: 2894
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Sat Jun 24, 2023 7:35 pm

Zenvaro wrote:Thanks to everyone who continues to play the mod, leaveы comments and supports! I will briefly answer a couple of questions that were asked here. I do not plan to continue working on the mod, since it seems to me that most of it has already been done. I have ideas and plans, but the problem is that I am limited to this outdated, not giving all the functionality that I need, and partially buggy engine that cannot even be edited. Thus, I had the idea to write my own analogue of the game on some of the modern engines. The game is also based on the civil war in Russia, with many similar features, but still with its own look and new features. This is just at the level of thoughts and plans, but I decided to share them.
P.S. I'm alive and well, everything is fine. Слава Україні! и Жыве Беларусь!


Glad to read your post :D

And good luck with your projects!

Searry
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Fri Jun 30, 2023 10:34 am

Zenvaro wrote:Thanks to everyone who continues to play the mod, leaveы comments and supports! I will briefly answer a couple of questions that were asked here. I do not plan to continue working on the mod, since it seems to me that most of it has already been done. I have ideas and plans, but the problem is that I am limited to this outdated, not giving all the functionality that I need, and partially buggy engine that cannot even be edited. Thus, I had the idea to write my own analogue of the game on some of the modern engines. The game is also based on the civil war in Russia, with many similar features, but still with its own look and new features. This is just at the level of thoughts and plans, but I decided to share them.
P.S. I'm alive and well, everything is fine. Слава Україні! и Жыве Беларусь!

Good luck!

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Nikel
Posts: 2894
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:02 pm

Zenvaro wrote: Thus, I had the idea to write my own analogue of the game on some of the modern engines. The game is also based on the civil war in Russia, with many similar features, but still with its own look and new features. This is just at the level of thoughts and plans, but I decided to share them.
P.S. I'm alive and well, everything is fine. Слава Україні! и Жыве Беларусь!



Do you think a card based engine would be a good idea for a Russian Civil War game?

https://strategygamestudio.com/


You could contact Philippe Thibaut and ask him for the SGS Edit software.

https://strategygamestudio.com/sgs-edit-map-editor/

JayR
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Thu Jul 27, 2023 7:03 pm

A few questions please:

1. How this mod is for solo play? Which faction(s) are best played solo?

2. Are only the campaigns playable with this mod and can the scenarios be played also?

Congratulations on the great mod Zenvaro, and thank you very much.

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Khanti
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Sat Sep 23, 2023 12:19 am

A little changes in Ledger_Back_Objectives.png
\RUS Gold 2.0 Sons of War\RUS-2.0\Graphics\FrontEnd\F9 Objectives\here
Better visibility of numbers and names
plus a photo of the family
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Khanti
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:04 pm

In game picture
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Nikel
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:28 pm

Thanks Khanti, you should visit more the forum :)

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Khanti
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:40 pm

:) Thanks Nikel
This one is redone once more - nothing fancy, but better for eyes
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Khanti
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:37 pm

C:\HDD\GAME\RUS-2.0\Graphics\Flags\Interface\ here
You can use this flags if vanilla ones do not suit you
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Khanti
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:38 pm

And RUS/UKR ones.
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Khanti
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:42 pm

Here it is like it looks in game.
I've also enlarged these little province flags to 21x18.
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Khanti
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Thu Sep 28, 2023 11:05 pm

In mod parameters of recruiting officers were changed. It look like it doesn't work.

MOD-UID = 71
Name = $abi_nam_Recruiting_Officer
Alias = Recruiting_Officer
Kind = $abiPatriot
Text = $abi_txt_Recruiting_Officer
ImageID = abi_patriot.png
Color = $colAbi_Blue
Appliance = Leader
Family = 0
Level = 1
Param1 = 0
Param2 = 10
Param3 = 10
Param4 = 10

Any idea what was changed?

In vanilla it was like this:
VANILLA-UID = 71
Name = $abi_nam_Recruiting_Officer
Alias = Recruiting_Officer
Kind = $abiPatriot
Text = $abi_txt_Recruiting_Officer
ImageID = abi_patriot.png
Color = $colAbi_Blue
Appliance = Leader
Family = 0
Level = 1
Param1 = 2
Param2 = 5
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Bohémond
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Sat Sep 30, 2023 12:56 am

Hello

Below are ParamX effects

Param1 : Conscript asset by region increase/decrease in %
Param2 : Min City size
Param3 : Change to cohesion if sub element is ''at home''
Param4 : Change to cohesion recovery if sub element is ''at home''


You should ask the mod creator what was the intented effect.
Right now, you need a level 10 city to have an impact on cohesion and cohesion recovery. No effect on conscripts production.

Regards

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ERISS
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:58 am

Khanti wrote:You can use this flag if vanilla ones do not suit you

This so known black flag was actually not a makhnovist flag (Makhno had denied this), but a "kotsurist" flag (north-west near makhnovists) (okay, Kotsur was like a Makhno warchief).
Makhnovist flags were usually black with some white writtings and had never skull&bones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_ ... novshchina
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svyryd_Kotsur
Last edited by ERISS on Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Khanti
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:35 pm

ERISS wrote:had never skull&bones.


So you think removing skull/bones will be ok?
The slogan could be left to look like proper flag?
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ERISS
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:35 pm

Khanti wrote:removing skull/bones will be ok?
The slogan could be left to look like proper flag?

Yes for removing bones,
and likewise i think no for the slogan: The makhnov slogans were more positives, more "lively":
They don't promise death, but war: the more threatening was like "War on the palaces, peace to the cottages"
so maybe just "Long live Anarchy!" is sufficient as the more telling and short slogan for a game.

I think small symbols have to be latin, not slavic: MAK/ANA white on black, rather than MAX/AHA, maybe ANA, because MAK should be less telling (russians can make their mods, like here lol)

HOWEVER: What was done is not lost: Maybe some "makhnovist" units may use this in the north-west, as kotsurits were very alike and should be integered in Makhnov for the game...

Hero989
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Sun Nov 05, 2023 5:54 pm

Great MOD. Any Updates? :dada:

Metalist
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Re: Sons of War (RUS Gold Mod)

Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:42 pm

Hi all. Thanks for the mod, I am enjoying it so far in a PBEM game. However, I have a problem. I cannot form a division that has more than 10~ elements, so biggest one I can form has something like 9k men. My opponents, on the other hand, able to form divisions containing up to 24 elements. Any suggestions on why this is the case? I play as Reds in the grand campaign, it is December 1918. I made a fresh installation, and play the game on Steam, if that matters.

Thanks in advance.
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