Question about attacking

[NARYB]

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why I cant attack Kiev ? I had been sitting there for 3 turns, and my units haven't attacked yet. 1.05 Patch

[lodilefty]

Looks like all your stacks are Army groups

An Army cannot initiate attack if any other group is in te same region.
Each army's attack is negated by the other two!
WAD


note that even a non-combat stack [lone supply for instance] can prevent attack
form a corps from the lowest senirity general of the 3 and make him the strongest

[ERISS]

What I understood:

Army stacks are GHQ groups, administrative usually non combattant: see them as heads directing Corps from afar.
Yes they can command huge number of units in their stacks, but they have to send them afar if the war area is large, and so you have to create Corps to welcome them.

Corps stacks are HQ groups, administrative combattant, operationnal level, see them as arms directing hands and fingers (divisions ands single units).
But these Corps arms can move by themselves (their own command) to react helping nearby groups or units.
So, if your war area is large, don't put all your fighting units in an Army group you'll micromanage fighting: create and use some Corps which, in addition of command, you can fill with fighting units.

If your war area is very large, or divided, create several Army groups.

In your exemple you have 3 big heads wondering what's this mess.
But, ok, maybe the AGE engine could be tweaked more again to somewhat better obey the wanting of the player: Maybe the general with highest senority could take the lead of the mess and obey attacking, with huge malus as he can't command all the 3 armies.
These games are for professional military

[NARYB]

Looks like all your stacks are Army groups

An Army cannot initiate attack if any other group is in te same region.
Each army's attack is negated by the other two!
WAD


note that even a non-combat stack [lone supply for instance] can prevent attack
form a corps from the lowest senirity general of the 3 and make him the strongest

But why? Why two of my army groups can`t attack in the same region?

[DarkGarry]

Looks like all your stacks are Army groups

An Army cannot initiate attack if any other group is in te same region.
Each army's attack is negated by the other two!
WAD


note that even a non-combat stack [lone supply for instance] can prevent attack
form a corps from the lowest senirity general of the 3 and make him the strongest

Ups, can you elaborate more on this subject when attack can and when can't happen, when it happens with some probability?

Different scenarios:
1. If our 2 corps(or divisions or armies or combination of them) attack enemy corps from different directions).
2. If our Corps (or army, or division) in defensive posture. In the same region there is enemy. We move into region another (army, corps, division ) in attacking posture. What are possible outcomes?

in general, what is DIFFERENCE in attacking behavior of single brigade, Division, Corps, Army, Front (for Reds)?

[lodilefty]

But why? Why two of my army groups can`t attack in the same region?

To be clear: An Army group [Group containing an Army HQ] cannot initiate any attack unless it is the only group in the region for that side.
This is the Game Design as developed. Same for all AGE games. It's a GAME RULE, OK?

Ups, can you elaborate more on this subject when attack can and when can't happen, when it happens with some probability?

Different scenarios:
1. If our 2 corps(or divisions or armies or combination of them) attack enemy corps from different directions).
2. If our Corps (or army, or division) in defensive posture. In the same region there is enemy. We move into region another (army, corps, division ) in attacking posture. What are possible outcomes?

in general, what is DIFFERENCE in attacking behavior of single brigade, Division, Corps, Army, Front (for Reds)?

1. Travel time to region will determine when each attacks. Thenthere is also some randomness to delay combat involvement.

2. The Corps will attack in starting region before moving. Further movement after combat will depend on the outcome, cohesion, etc.
The Army will not initiate the attack [see rules], but possible will at detination if it gets there first [with no other friendly units already there]

Differences in attack behavior depend on Leadership, command penalty, supply, and [the big one] FRONTAGE
see: http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Frontage

[DarkGarry]

Thanks for a reply.

In my questions I intended to ask a high level principles (I read already ageod wiki). The main question in the background - when battle starts and when NOT.

Example

1. Pincer attack. Two Armies move in Attack posture to same region occupied by enemy in Defensive posture.

From what you have written attack is possible ONLY if one Army present in region. So if they arrive at the same time - there will be NO BATTLE for sure. If one army start the battle before 2nd army came into region - will another join the fight?

If 2 Corps (instead of 2 armies) in example above - the battle WILL HAPPEN (well - will engage with some probability).

If One Army and one Corps attacking - not sure, will there be a battle?

If One Army and one Division attacking - not sure, will there be a battle?

-------

I have an observation: When my Huge army goes on assault and won, but enemy non retreated, some remains - they will stand NOT attacking anymore, even if tiny enemy force remains. But if I send after that a single little regiment into the region in attacking posture - a battle will happen and enemy destroyed.

[DarkGarry]

Can you please comment on strange game behavior Orel and me had in game against OneArmedMexican? Save files attached.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?24544-RUS-Official-Patch-1-05-April-26-2012

[OneArmedMexican]

What Pat Cleburne tried to tell you in the other thread: this isn't an exact science. Whether a battle will happen/if all or only some stacks engage is also determined by an element of chance, strategic ratings of your generals, ...

In your examples:

2 corps: possibly both, but they may not attack both during the first round of combat. The longer the battle lasts the higher the chances that both engage.

1 hq, 1 corps: may attack both, but chances are only the corps attacks in the first combat round.

1 corps, 1 independant division: may attack both, but again there is a risk of them not engaging simultaniously.

[DarkGarry]

Thanks OneArmedMexican,

Yet another questions:
What is the difference in engagement probability (or any other difference) if we compare division and Column (just pack of brigades with attached pack of officers)?

What is the difference between Corps that consists of separate brigades (not divisions) versus division?

In general what are benefits of Divisional structure?
-My guess, that damage is spread among units.
-I think I read in wiki that less cohession spent in divisional organization

Any other bonus?

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

Divisions can reduce your command penalty. The command penalty affects engagement probability.

[DarkGarry]

Divisions can reduce your command penalty. The command penalty affects engagement probability.

I observed sometimes that if I have Corps, that has no division level, but just brigades and I put these brigades in Division, it REDUCE the power value of entire force.

[jack54]

I observed sometimes that if I have Corps, that has no division level, but just brigades and I put these brigades in Division, it REDUCE the power value of entire force.

I had the same issue but I had created divisions that cost less than 4 command points. A division cost 4 cp regardless of size (up to the top limit which I believe is 8 units or about 26 elements). I'm not sure if this is your situation but I think a division needing less than 4 cp will lose power; probably simulates a top heavy command structure. So in my set up the units I united cost 3 cp outside of a division but when I combinded them into a division they cost 4 cp making the group weaker in general.

[Durk]

Not my experience. While there is a drop in the turn of division formation, this turns to a major plus in later turns.
That is, lose in formation, but gain in later turns.

[jack54]

hmmm I may have been too hasty in dismantling the smaller divisions (less than 3cp). I originally made them to take advantage of individual General abilities. I stopped doing this fearing the strength loss was perminate, it is something I will watch for in the future.