Two White factions / Multiplayer

[GlobalExplorer]

What about multiplayer in which one player plays the Southern whites, the other plays the Siberian Whites?

Will there be a singleplayer mode in which the player controls both White factions?

I ask because right now success depends a lot on the AIs performance and this could be frustrating.

[Tamas]

Frustrating maybe, but very historical as far as I know. There was no real coordination between these two main factions and allowing the white player to have it (in command of a single faction)

[Cat Lord]

You can always "fake" playing both White Sides by reloading the AI file and giving it order yourself (as if you were another player on PBEM), but otherwise, yes, one of your partner in war is the AI.

As Tamas said, we found it closer to what happen in reality when Southern and Siberian Whites never managed to coordinate themselves: By the time Denikin publish his order to march on Moscow, Kolchak was in full retreat in the Urals...

Cat

[GlobalExplorer]

Makes sense, guess I have not thought it over that much.

[Clovis]

Try the AI howewer; it's certainly not without ressources ...and it's playing against the Red AI. in a test game, AI Wrangel has come to Moscow/Petrograd aera...so...

[barbu]

Cat Lord, could you please explain what you said? Is the procedure something like: I can start the game as the Siberian Whites, play for a turn, save, load the file, play as the Southern Whites, save, select the Siberian Whites, click end turn, and do it all over again?

[Clovis]

Cat Lord, could you please explain what you said? Is the procedure something like: I can start the game as the Siberian Whites, play for a turn, save, load the file, play as the Southern Whites, save, select the Siberian Whites, click end turn, and do it all over again?

yes there's a button giving access to all save files even those played by AI. Plan your turn, save, then load the other side save and plan the moves . Save. Open your fisrt saved planned moves and resolve the turn.

[GlobalExplorer]

But what about fog of war? Right now I don't even see anything the other white faction is doing. I have the feeling I don't know what's going on at all. Couldn't the other White faction be enabled at least on the strategic (F8) map?

[barbu]

Good point.

Example of what I mean:

After 38 frightful turns, human playing as Southern Whites finally reaches the final battle. Or so he thinks ...

Siberian White AI: " "
Southern White human player: " You conquered Moscow?? When?!"
Siberian White AI: " "

[Clovis]

But what about fog of war? Right now I don't even see anything the other white faction is doing. I have the feeling I don't know what's going on at all. Couldn't the other White faction be enabled at least on the strategic (F8) map?

1) click on the button showing region possession on the main screen

2) we will introduce events to give news about other factions progress in the next weeks. Lack of time

[Cat Lord]

But what about fog of war? Right now I don't even see anything the other white faction is doing. I have the feeling I don't know what's going on at all. Couldn't the other White faction be enabled at least on the strategic (F8) map?

There currently is no option to do that.

I think it could be possible by tweaking some files (where factions are declared allies).

But I don't think it would be realistic. You are exactly in the situation they were: They couldn't know what was happening 1000's of miles away.

Lifting the FoW for the other White Faction is like giving you the radio to communicate with them or a satellite spy.

Cat

[barbu]

I understand what you are both saying. There are things more important than this, and I guess one could just load the save as the "other", AI Whites to see what things are like on that front.

Don't worry, you've done a great game and all your work is very much appreciated

[Clovis]

I understand what you are both saying. There are things more important than this, and I guess one could just load the save as the "other", AI Whites to see what things are like on that front.

Don't worry, you've done a great game and all your work is very much appreciated

Both points of view aren't contradictory...Cat is talking about game Engine and I'm refering to the event scripting langage...You should get something during the next 2 weeks.

[GlobalExplorer]

While removing fog of war for the allied factions would give the player ahistoric advantage, we have now a contrary situation where he has much less information than historical.

1) click on the button showing region possession on the main screen

2) we will introduce events to give news about other factions progress in the next weeks. Lack of time

If you could cover this with events like Siberian Whites 'capture town XX' or 'won a battle gainst YY in ZZ ' (for big battles at least), I would be satisfied.

However, ideal would be:
a) a map that shows the progress of other factions, too (for the sake of realism lets say the information could be 2-4 turns old)*1*
b) some events that announce big offensives / setbacks for the major factions
c) advance notice if large new troops arrive in the next turns

*1*You could bypass additional complexity by simply adding a new strategic map that shows the situation as it was a certain number of turns ago (2-4), perhaps restricted to certain factions, or only units that moved, or only units from a certain size upwards, etc. It could also be randomized to add some amount of uncertainty. Exact information should not be available for the current turn, but slowly leak through in the following turns.

[Clovis]

While removing fog of war for the allied factions would give the player ahistoric advantage, we have now a contrary situation where he has much less information than historical.



If you could cover this with events like Siberian Whites 'capture town XX' or 'won a battle gainst YY in ZZ ' (for big battles at least), I would be satisfied.

capture town : yes. Won a battle, yes again except you will maybe not know where. For the rest, ...only a code change can do something

[Zap Brannigan]

I will only be buying the game tonight, but this sounds great - I think too many games give the player a huge advantage with the sateillite view of the world - not being sure of the progress of the other white faction should make things more interesting.

[Clovis]

For those waiting after such a feature , and as a stopgap, unzip thiq file in the RUS/events foder. The other White faction territory should appear from time to time to the player, for one turn.

[Cat Lord]

Maybe this should rather go in the mod forum ?

Cat

[Clovis]

Maybe this should rather go in the mod forum ?

Cat

yes but no, at least being here for some hours will be easier to find for newcomers

[barbu]

Clovis, thank you.

1. Do we have to start a new game?
2. Where will we be able to see the other White player? Minimap, strategic map or main "viewing surface"?

If time is pressing and this feature cannot be expanded, perhaps it would be OK to leave it at that, but announce every turn in which we can see the other white player, in the message log in red: "We have news on what our anti-Bolshevik allies are doing against the common foe!"

Or something like that.

[GlobalExplorer]

For those waiting after such a feature , and as a stopgap, unzip thiq file in the RUS/events foder. The other White faction territory should appear from time to time to the player, for one turn.

An interesting new solution to the problem! If the info appears randomly every 2nd, 3rd turn, and this is easy to program, then why not!

But I just wonder if it would also be possible to always display the info from e.g. 2 turns ago (?). But my feeling is that this requires immense changes to the engine.

Personally I am in no rush to get such new functionality. If it takes 6 months, or a year, I would still be satisfied if you are going to do something about problems that were raised in the forum, and if you consider good suggestions.

I work as a programmer myself, and there is nothing that I hate more than people who always need new functionality "tomorrow, on monday would still be ok, but not later!"