Boardgames on the Russian Civil War

[Cat Lord]

There is a great list of boardgames on the Russian Civil War, which was compiled by Desaix, on Board Game Geek :

Wargames on the Russian Civil War (1917-1922)

Have you play any of these games, here ?

Cat

[Flop]

REDS is a pretty good game, in my opinion. Unfortunately, it takes a long time to play, and finding an opponent can be difficult, if your friends prefer ligther games (like most of mine do).

[Def Zep]

Seconded. I have played both "Reds" and "Triumph of Chaos".

Of the two, Ted Racier's "Reds" is the better game. It is more convential in design, and can be learned a bit easier by most opponents who may not own their own copy.

D. Doctor's "Triumph of Chaos" is more difficult to play through. However, the game is a virtual tour-de-force of historical vignettes and bon mot's. Well worth owning if you are into this subject of history.

I have played "Reds" numerous times but, oddly enough, though winning it twice, have never achieved my own side's victory conditions. I've only been able to keep my opponent from achieving his, and thus getting him to resign. Kind of like the actual conflict, I guess.

[Def Zep]

In regards to other games on this conflict, I can update the list Cat Lord's posted with the following information:

Decision Games, which publishes the wargaming magazine Strategy & Tactics (S&T) here in the United States, is re-publishing the old SPI boardgame "Russian Civil War".

It will be released in S&T #267, February 2011:
http://shop.strategyandtacticspress.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ST267

There is also a discussion of the revision by the designer, Joe Miranda, on Consimworld:
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@117.NZd5bz5lC58.2@.ee6bab1/198

The original design (by Jim Dunnigan back in 1976) was multi-player and captured the chaos of the conflict quite well. You blindly drew your forces out of a cup, both Red and White, and tried to be the last man standing. The rules were fairly simple, with the real challenge lying in your relations with the other players, and making deals of convenience from one turn to the next. The Whites were scattered across the board and needed to cooperate to win. The Reds could purge each other. Trying to hedge your bets and straddle the fence, keeping both White and Red armies in your hand, meant everybody had a reason to target you. But it was the best way to win.

Much fun.

[TheDoctorKing]

I loved Russian Civil War, played it probably a dozen or more times when it came out. The sense you got that either side could turn against itself in an instant and that was perfectly normal really captured the spirit of the times for me. I hope that the AGEOD offering will have some of that.

[vaalen]

There is a great list of boardgames on the Russian Civil War, which was compiled by Desaix, on Board Game Geek :

Wargames on the Russian Civil War (1917-1922)

Have you play any of these games, here ?

Cat

I have played Reds, but my favorite is Rossiya 1917. Somewhat of a mini monster, but quite playable, with great counters and a fascinating system. Really did a good job of showing the chaotic nature of the war. The Czech Legion was awesome!

[ERISS]

About Ukraine, Tatchanka!, Game of the Month of LEGION Wargames, can be preordered:
http://www.legionwargames.com/legion_GotM_Tatchanka.html

Scope

The Civil War in Ukraine was closely linked with the Civil War in central and southern Russia. It allows three main design approaches, but few opportunities for compromise.

A first approach is to cover the entire theater, including the Ukrainian, Southern and later Southeastern Fronts against the Armed Forces of South Russia. But the main fighting occurs between Rostov, Tula, and potentially Moskva. Ukraine is only one front, and not always the critical front. This approach tends to reduce the Makhnovists and the Directory to minor allies of the Bolsheviks and usually the Whites, respectively.

A second approach is to focus on Ukraine. This approach works well when the fighting in Ukraine is separate from the fighting in Russia, which it is in Fall of the Directory and Makhno's Return. This falls apart when the fronts are linked together, which they were between the two games.

An alternative approach would have been to focus on the conflicts between opposing political movements, beginning before the October Revolution and with the Left and Right Social Revolutionaries, the Bolsheviks, the Pro-German and anti-German Whites, and other factions would oppose each other. The political and ecoomic concerns would require more attention and the military ones could be abstracted.

I think each of these approaches has its merits, but this game can only use one. I experimented with the first approach, but decided on the second.

The "alternative approach" is the one I'm using!! (if someday I finish my game...)

Click on "The History Behind the Campaigns" interesting links in top of their page...

[ERISS]

Hordes rouges (Mathieu Garde), a mod for De Bellis Antiquitatis 15mm
in Vae Victis Hors-Série N°4 (Été 2006), p. 70-75

L'article historique qui précède le jeu est très approximatif, j'avais même envoyé un mail d'engueulade à l'auteur (différent de celui du jeu), le traitant de trotskiste quant à son traitement de la makhnovchtchina*. Il m'a répondu avoir utilisé le "Livre noir du communisme" (justement plutôt basé sur les archives bolcheviques du temps de Trotski), ouvrage assez décrié.

*
. les makhnovistes seraient des Blancs changeant d'allégeance au gré des évènements,
. ils auraient commis de nombreux pogroms antisémites et auraient été les seuls à en faire,
. l'auteur ne donne pas l'origine makhnoviste de la blitzkrieg de l'Armée rouge qui aurait été la 1ère à la théoriser

[RICCO7859]

here you have a new wargame (December) for the yudenich offensive against Petrograd:

http://www.battlesmagazine.com/eshop/achat/produit_details.php?id=20

Inside a good historical article about this subject and baltic war.

[ERISS]

Yep, here is an AAR of this White October wargame:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/613758/white-october-everyone-to-petrograd

[Nikel]

In regards to other games on this conflict, I can update the list Cat Lord's posted with the following information:

Decision Games, which publishes the wargaming magazine Strategy & Tactics (S&T) here in the United States, is re-publishing the old SPI boardgame "Russian Civil War".

It will be released in S&T #267, February 2011:
http://shop.strategyandtacticspress.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ST267

There is also a discussion of the revision by the designer, Joe Miranda, on Consimworld:
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@117.NZd5bz5lC58.2@.ee6bab1/198

The original design (by Jim Dunnigan back in 1976) was multi-player and captured the chaos of the conflict quite well. You blindly drew your forces out of a cup, both Red and White, and tried to be the last man standing. The rules were fairly simple, with the real challenge lying in your relations with the other players, and making deals of convenience from one turn to the next. The Whites were scattered across the board and needed to cooperate to win. The Reds could purge each other. Trying to hedge your bets and straddle the fence, keeping both White and Red armies in your hand, meant everybody had a reason to target you. But it was the best way to win.

Much fun.

The magazine S&T 267 can be downloaded as a sample issue in pdf format in the link below

Game not included of course but there is an analysis of the RCW by the redesigner of the game, Miranda.

Another 2 magazines are also available


http://www.militaryhistorymarketing.com/sample-issues/

[ERISS]

The magazine S&T 267 can be downloaded as a sample issue in pdf format in the link below
there is an analysis of the RCW

Excellent! Thanks. The pdf precise link (from S&T)
But Petlioura' army is missing on the maps.

[Def Zep]

Thank you for those links, Nikel & Eriss. Very interesting.

I purchased issue #267 of S&T to play the new version of Russian Civil War. I like the changes Joe Miranda has made. It is better balanced than the original.

However, I am not too impressed with the main article covering the war in the magazine. It is primarily a broad overview of the war's progression for readers not very familiar with these events; unfortunately, it lacks any real analysis.

For example, a very important subject most english-language histories of the war don't discuss, is the importance of the western Banks pursuing the war debt owed them by Imperial Russia. This debt was not retired until the 1990's, and undergirded much of the drive by the West to support the Whites against the Reds. You cannot understand the actions of the Western powers in Russia, without first understanding the Imperial Debt and who was trying to collect it. This is not touched upon in the article.

But the Designer's Notes from Joe Miranda are very well done. A very nice summary of the problems in (re-)designing the original SPI boardgame, and what's new. I recommend purchasing this issue, for the game alone.

[ERISS]

I purchased issue #267 of S&T to play the new version of Russian Civil War. I like the changes Joe Miranda has made. It is better balanced than the original.
the Designer's Notes from Joe Miranda are very well done. A very nice summary of the problems in (re-)designing the original SPI boardgame, and what's new. I recommend purchasing this issue, for the game alone.

Store is on another site: http://shop.strategyandtacticspress.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ST267
To Grenoble/France: $50 +$15.95(shipping) =46,25€; +9,05€(Tax paid afterward) =Total 55,30€ .. ($78.90)
And I bet we have to cut the counters