Revolution under Siege: Russian Civil War Game with RoP engine planned

[Nikel]

I hardly know anything about this war, but I'm sure when I play the game my appetite for information will grow soon enough.

Fully agree, this is a very interesting part of wargaming

[Franciscus]

Great news ! And at least to me, MUCH more interesting than ROP. I have always had a fascination about the Russian civil war, specially about the "what if" aspects of it, regarding our current society. Much like AACW, in fact.
Count me in ! I

[Baris]

If we were only doing games according to polls, the only wars that will ever be simulated would be Rome, Napoleon, and WW2.



There have been no PC wargame of the RCW at this level so far. If there was one population of gamers that could be interested in one, it can only be the AgeOD fans.


Cat

Confused at first but I understand after and you are right.

As said after Crusader kings 2 announcement(which is the most innovative game for paradox) Im happy to see another game(with some Rop ,ACW mechanics ) about this important but(unfortunately) depressing period of Russian history.As a first preview it looks as a very good setting for a Ageod game like many foreign support(intervention) , scarceness of resources , production and manpower. I will be very happy to read even more books about this timeframe and the units like I did for Rise of Prussia.

Im eager to see some screenshots about units and the map

It will be good to command bolsheviks..
Congrulations for the time setting

[beatoangelico]

I'm not a marketing guy, but I'm skeptical about the potential of the timeframe. The little I know of the wargaming world is that a lot of people, when choosing a game, looks at the subject first, and gameplay second, and that's partially true also for the more mainstream strategy audience. And even for a guy like me you have to really nail the balance and gameplay to make me interested, since I guess interface and mechanics won't get a big overhaul compared to the previous games.

[Seb]

Dear Cat Lord,
Does the game engine will be like AACW with the possibility of reclutement and with finance of war???
I'm very curios about this

RUS is somewhere between AACW and RoP.

Yes, the players will have to recruit and organize their army. As in 1918, both the Reds and the White started nearly from nothing, players will have to "build the Red Army", for example. From group of undisciplined Red Guards to a war machine of millions of men.

You also will have to deal with economics and a simplified diplomacy (with some surpises in it ). The management side of the game should be as important as in AACW I think.

[Seb]

I'm not a marketing guy, but I'm skeptical about the potential of the timeframe. The little I know of the wargaming world is that a lot of people, when choosing a game, looks at the subject first, and gameplay second, and that's partially true also for the more mainstream strategy audience. And even for a guy like me you have to really nail the balance and gameplay to make me interested, since I guess interface and mechanics won't get a big overhaul compared to the previous games.

There was a specific reason fo choosing the Russian Civil War. But I don't know if I am allowed to say more.

[Baris]

I'm not a marketing guy, but I'm skeptical about the potential of the timeframe. The little I know of the wargaming world is that a lot of people, when choosing a game, looks at the subject first, and gameplay second, and that's partially true also for the more mainstream strategy audience. And even for a guy like me you have to really nail the balance and gameplay to make me interested, since I guess interface and mechanics won't get a big overhaul compared to the previous games.

You are correct. But I think Ageod games are one of the best wargames in the market.Different players from different countries demand very different time settings.So it is hard to decide. But I dont think every ww2 game sells more with just the name, but it can be a small factor of course for purchase.

About history interpretation(doing research) and gameplay quality I think they deserve a better place in gaming industry.

On the other hand about interface and game mechanics , we will have more right to demand more, in the future when more players will join.

Additionaly, it has a very loyal community so even they dont know the period, they will be more interested to that period because of the game quality and support. This community will grow bigger even time periods do not match with popular requests.

[Cat Lord]

I'm not a marketing guy, but I'm skeptical about the potential of the timeframe. The little I know of the wargaming world is that a lot of people, when choosing a game, looks at the subject first, and gameplay second, and that's partially true also for the more mainstream strategy audience.

Let see:
* The biggest, deadliest conflict of the XXth century after ww1, ww2 - check
* Outcome defining history for the next 70 years to come - check
* Origin of the most powerful opponent to the US nearly leading to ww3 - check
* Includes US expeditionary forces (Polar Bear Expediction and American Expeditionary Force Siberia) - check
* Never represented properly on the wargaming market - check
* Best tried and tested turned-base engine on the simulation market - check

Nah ! We cannot fail !

Cat

[kosmoface]

I'm not a marketing guy, but I'm skeptical about the potential of the timeframe. The little I know of the wargaming world is that a lot of people, when choosing a game, looks at the subject first, and gameplay second, and that's partially true also for the more mainstream strategy audience. And even for a guy like me you have to really nail the balance and gameplay to make me interested, since I guess interface and mechanics won't get a big overhaul compared to the previous games.

A good game is good game - regardless of the time period. Okay, I love ROP to pieces so I am a bit biased, BUT to survive 7 years against overwhelming opposition with limited resources - how is that not a good concept for a game? And you can do this with each and every AGEOD game.

I didn't care much for the ACW (as a European), but I love AGEOD games so I bought these games. I learned something AND I played a good game. Even though these games are historical, the underlying gamedesign is very interesting (to me at least), so there's no reason not to buy it.

Oh and I don't care much for the Victorian age, but I will buy Vainglory regardless. If you never try something new, you'll never know if you'll like it eventually. And these games are not very expensive... compared to more mainstream games. So there's really no reason not to support a small company which makes wonderful games.

Just my opinion.

[surcouf]

It is a very interesting conflict, which has not been represented on the video wargame market for ages, if ever. I couldn't find any. I know there is a Mount & Blade (!) mod about the Russian Civil War, but that's all I know about.

In board game, this is quite a rate subject as well. I have found these ones when I was doing the research:

- Russian Civil War, SPI, James Dunnigan, 1976
- Red Star/White Eagle, GDW, Dave Williams, 1979
- Rossyia 1917, Azure Wish, F.S. Thomas, 1995
- REDS!, GMT, Ted Raicer, 2001
- Triumph of Chaos, Clash of Arms, D B Dockter, 2005
- Orel 1919, David Beaudlet, Vae Victis magazine #74, 2007
- Tsarytsine 1919, David Beaudlet, Canons en Carton, 2008

There are more than that, but most of them are quite confidential, and a lot are out of print...

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/22041/wargames-on-the-russian-civil-war-1917-1922

Cat

I would add that in 1 month there will also be white october (battles magazine) from David Beaudlet about yudenitch's drive on petrograd

http://www.battlesmagazine.com/eshop/mag-4/preview05.php

and there is also the eagle and the star, a polish game (quite known now) about the 1920 battles between poland and URSS
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/42396/the-eagle-and-the-star

but the russian civil war is a very difficult subject to simulate due to an absolute political mess , especially for the entire war and in a strategic scale
I'm happy that ageod will do it as this will surely be quality work

[surcouf]

Let see:
* The biggest, deadliest conflict of the XXth century after ww1, ww2 - check
* Outcome defining history for the next 70 years to come - check
* Origin of the most powerful opponent to the US nearly leading to ww3 - check
* Includes US expeditionary forces (Polar Bear Expediction and American Expeditionary Force Siberia) - check
* Never represented properly on the wargaming market - check
* Best tried and tested turned-base engine on the simulation market - check

Nah ! We cannot fail !

Cat

* one of the biggest political mess ever to be created, meaning a lot of event to have for a great game - check

[Seb]

I would add that in 1 month there will also be white october (battles magazine) from David Beaudlet about yudenitch's drive on petrograd

David Beaudlet worked with us on RUS : he gave us OOB translated from the Soviet Encyclopedia. He also gave us some advices

Seb

[Respenus]

Great news. Count me in. I always wanted to find out if I could do it with the Whites, or even anyone non-Leninist for that matter.

I do remember Philippe saying that the engine might be used for different time periods. Apparently, this is the first one, of what I hope, to become a successful line of historical games. That is, as long as they are top notch (no doubt about that with AgeOD) and that we get our Vainglory of Nations in 2011. Otherwise the team might find themselves with a revolution on their hands

[wertheimer]

Awesome AGEOD!! Right up my alley... Thanks for taking this on. I am looking forward to it.

[Fastsnake]

Another great game about another great period barely know unfortenately... Looking forward to see more about it!

[Bruit Bleu]

Oh ! C'est une excellente nouvelle !!
N'écoutez pas les aigris, le sujet est passionnant et aucun jeu digne de ce nom ne lui a jamais été consacré...

Et quelle bande-son ! ça promet !


Et puis ça tombe bien, j'ai prévu de m'attaquer au gros bouquin d'Orlando Figes !

[Rafiki]

[color="Blue"]How about that, Looks like I managed to nudge the thread right into the new RUS forum [/color]

[Cat Lord]

Et puis ça tombe bien, j'ai prévu de m'attaquer au gros bouquin d'Orlando Figes !

De tous les bouquins que j'ai lu sur le sujet, c'était un des mieux... sauf pour les aspects purement militaires.

Mais je le recommande chaudement à tous ceux qui veulent comprendre la Révolution Russe.

Cat

[caranorn]

Sounds interesting...

To the critics: Don't forget there might be a market in quite a few central and east European countries. Though I worry a bit that the map might not extend far enough west to include other revolutions occuring at the same time...

I just hope the political turmoil of the era is sufficiently covered. I'm also a bit worried about the notion of offmap boxes along the Siberian railroad as I seem to recall more than just the Czechs operating in that area (but it's been over ten years since I studied this war in college). I'm also uncertain how factions like the Ukrainian Anarchists, the Ukrainian Nationalists, the Poles, various other nationalist groups etc. are handled. Not to mention that most later Soviet Republics were at least originally more or less autonomous from the Russian Soviets, not to mention Polish Communists and the like...

But I'll definitelly be a customer on this one. Just don't go and oversimplify it, nor pander to the various modern political and national interests...

Ah to finally play with Trotsky and Tukhachevsky and to send Stalin off into some wall to break his neck as the inept general he was. A dream come true :-D ...

[Raptor1]

The Russian Civil War?!

By Jingo, aside from the Thirty Years' War, this is probably the best period that has never seen a computer wargame. I can hardly wait.

[Ebbingford]

I'm going to have to dig out an old double video I've got, "The Russian Civil War", to get in the mood for this one.

[petebeadle]

There is something for everyone in this title. Russia was invaded by 20 different foreign intervention forces during the timeframe....

[Carnium]

Good God, first the rise of prussia, now the russian revolution. What a bore. There was a poll about what people would like to see from ageod, and this wasn't even on it. Talk about a niche game.

Patience is virtue. Some of us like fresh games
There will be plenty of time for different games from AGEOD, but I like the way they are developing the main engine before they are attempting anything too ambitious.

[petebeadle]

Will the game start soon enough to cover the Kornilov Coup, which, IMO was the start of the civil war? It was Kornilov's advance on Petrograd to crush the Soviet that won the debate in the Bolsheviks for the seizure of power. The rest, as we say, is history....

[Panama Red]

The Operational Art of War (TOAW) has 5 or 6 battle scenarios of the Russo-Polish War, but none on the actual RCW.

[WallysWorld]

The Operational Art of War (TOAW) has 5 or 6 battle scenarios of the Russo-Polish War, but none on the actual RCW.

There are a couple of TOAW scenarios that people have created that cover the entire civil war. Don't how good they are, but I've seen them on the web.

I have to say that I really like this conflict that Ageod choose to simulate. I've read a couple of books about the RCW and will definitely be buying the game. Kudos to Ageod!

[Carrington]

This is a very neat project, looking forward to it.

Sounds interesting...

I just hope the political turmoil of the era is sufficiently covered. I'm also a bit worried about the notion of offmap boxes along the Siberian railroad as I seem to recall more than just the Czechs operating in that area (but it's been over ten years since I studied this war in college).

Not least there are the U.S. railroad engineers, busily improving the Trans-Siberian railroad as Russia collapsed around them.

Kennan's description (I think in The Decision to Intervene) was characteristically acid.

And then there were the Japanese, who seemed just a tad too enthusiastic for their Western partners.

[ERISS]

- Surprisingly, the fronts didn't freeze up like in the ww1.
- Cavalry still played an important role, that was completely neglected at the beginning by the Reds, until they lost enough battles to recognise it as a necessity.
- Trains and railroad transports were of the utmost importance, and were few and far between in most of Russia, like they were in the US of the ACW period.

As De Gaulle saw in Poland in 1921, the next war will have to be a movement war: De Gaulle saw the moving Red Army, which stole its tactics from the Makhnovists (coward tactics, said Trotsky when he was the target). But, later, Stalin will forbid this pre-blitzkrieg.
Railroad was only important for the centralized powers. The Green and Black didn't really need it.

- Population loyalty, support and morale, allowing you to keep your supply lines open, were battle-breakers.
- It was an ideological war to death, which will change the shape and ideology of a whole country (and even more, of the whole XXth century !) for ever.

Yeah, entire regiments could switch to other side. Tongue was a weapon (Bolcheviks had to send soldiers from the far East, who didn't understand russian, against the makhnovists!).
Propaganda (often lies from Red or Whites) was a huge weapon in this war, maybe it was the war where it was the more usefull.

There have been no PC wargame of the RCW at this level so far. If there was one population of gamers that could be interested in one, it can only be the AgeOD fans.
So here you go, we decided to be bold, and give it a try.
Cat

I thank you, I won't have to work: As a so game was missing, I was thinking about doing one.

[Jim-NC]

Very interesting topic and timeperiod. Look forward to seeing more.

[tagwyn]

von rocko: I must find myseld basically in agreement with your thoughts. It is a shame AGEOD does not have more interesting things to do with its enourmous talent!! t