Hussars too powerful?

[loki100]

This is just to report an incident right at the start of a new RoP PBEM with the new patch.

I took that Austrian brigade that starts at Lobositz, sent the Grenzler bns back to Prag and moved the remnants (2 Hussar units) to Dippoldiswalde. I had two goals, to dispute loss of MC if the Prussians only put a screening force there (trying to make them attack Prina or wait for a normal starvation under siege rather than the event driven surrender), and related to this, to stop a lunge at Prag before all my corps had unlocked.

The outcome is the 2 unit Hussar brigade has completely blocked the Prussians from moving south, in part as their evade (5) is higher than the detect (4), so Fred's 2500 Pwr army (with 800 pwr cavalry) is actually blocked at Prina (at least till the camp falls and can't do anything to shift my Hussars).

This is a far beyond what I was looking for and seems to make Hussars (& I'd guess later Cossacks) almost the most powerful units in the game, able to block passage at no risk of being engaged? Not least I guess a similar trick would protect Koenigratz too.

[Narwhal]

Just to be clear, the hussars are at Dipposwald, and also at Dipposwald there is Freddie's little bro with a 2500 pwr column (they are not in Pirna), and a 800 pwr column by the reckless guy. The MC of the province remains 100% Saxon.

We are going to home-rule the "invisible hussars" trick out to avoid sieges being impossible, and for his ingenuity, Loki100 deserves to "save" Pirna this way. It is still a major problem IMO.

Loki100 will post the save if needed I think. I will not look at it

[lodilefty]

Please post save of the turn with \Backup1 also

[loki100]

[ATTACH]17813[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]17814[/ATTACH]

Hi heres the current saves and the backup 1 files, its the ord/trn & hst files for both turns

R

[Ebbingford]

I think the whole ZOC and cavalry blocking movement is wrong. I think it would be better if only forts block movement through ZOC.
Just my 2 cents worth, ( I'm not bitter about loosing several armies to Squarian when they couldn't move because cavalry was blocking them, really!! )

[Narwhal]

Same game, starts to get strange :



- I lose morale "to avenge Saxon's surrender" but Pirna is still there. I believe this event is to compensate for Prussian's morale if he does an assault on Pirna (which I did not do - Loki100 tried a sortie, and it turned poorly). I think that the sentence should mention something else than "surrender", like "Saxon's plight" or something, or Frederick bloodthirstiness, and it will not be (or look like) a bug anymore.

- I cannot set defensive position on the mountain, due to the "invisible cavalry with infinite Military Control" seen above.

Both can be tested using Loki100's save, as it is only one turn later.

[loki100]

Just as another addition to this, we're trying house rules but that is hard given the number of light cavalry units in the game and that using them as screens or to raid lines of communication is a sensible use in any case.

So we tried to mod the unit files, so for all Light Cav and Dragoon types (files 17,18,19,20.23.24 in the CMN series & the 3 specialist Cossack files 269,270,271 RUS) by increasing the detect values by +1 so Hussars should be at 5 etc. However, even loading a completely fresh game these changes aren't taking effect in the actual in-game unit values.

[Florent]

"I think the whole ZOC and cavalry blocking movement is wrong."

Yes i agree here, many historians are telling that the armies were like ships on the sea at this time, no rear echelon troops holding the field thus when it is said to you that you can't retreat because of ennemy positions, it is wrong !! An army should go where it wants when there is no ennemy.

It was OK with AACW because a change in warfare happened, but NCP and RoP has this problem (it happens less time than before) although Pocus have improved the rule a lot.(I think he reduced the number of cases with this problem).

[lodilefty]

Just as another addition to this, we're trying house rules but that is hard given the number of light cavalry units in the game and that using them as screens or to raid lines of communication is a sensible use in any case.

So we tried to mod the unit files, so for all Light Cav and Dragoon types (files 17,18,19,20.23.24 in the CMN series & the 3 specialist Cossack files 269,270,271 RUS) by increasing the detect values by +1 so Hussars should be at 5 etc. However, even loading a completely fresh game these changes aren't taking effect in the actual in-game unit values.

You must delete Models.Cached after your changes so the game will relad the new models.

[loki100]

You must delete Models.Cached after your changes so the game will relad the new models.

thank you ... that was the step I couldn't work out.

If anyone wants our version of models feel free to pm me, prob easiest if you do so via the Paradox forum (I use the same name there), we think, with a bit of common sense, this should remove the more exploitive element of this trick but keep the Austrian Hussars and the Cossacks as a very real threat to the Prussian lines of communication.

[lodilefty]

According to a reliable source, this has been a lurking issue in all AGE games for some time.....

...bughunt under way to fix it.
The adjustment you made is OK, but it needs to be fixed so "somebody" doesn't have to go tinker with models in all games....


"The beatings will continue until performance improves"

[OneArmedMexican]

Nice to see you on this forum loki! I am glad lodilefty has already provided you with the answer. You have to remember the trick with the models.cached in all AGEOD games except ACW.

While speaking of annoying issues that affect all AGE games, another one is the possibility to force the surrender of an enemy force with a minimal siege army. An example from a recent game was 3000 men surrendering against 500 after a single turn (both sides had neither artillery nor siege engineers). It might be a good idea to think about some minimum requirements. For example numerically inferior siege forces never can force surrender, also a minimum siege time could help (no surrender in the first turn after a siege has begun).

[Narwhal]

Thank you Lodi.

I don't know what you consider the bug, but I believe the most aggravating is "no MC change against invisible units".

As a side note on the Hide, the manual says that you get +1 hide for EITHER passive or small force, but it looks like that in game it is +1 for passive, and +1 for small force. Maybe the "manual" rule should be respected to avoid sky-high hide values ?

If not, tell me, and I will change the wikimanual myself. At some point when I will have more time than I have right now (my fault, too, used my free time to do the AARs, and now no more time), I am going to spill all my Beginners's Corners in the wiki, clean / expand the manual, and finish my Natchez-s war.