Leader Casualties

[Lord Irvine]

Sorry if this has been raised already but I couldn't find any thread on this matter.

I recently played a campaign as Prussia (v1.03 RC4) after a long hiatus away from the game. During the campaign I was struck by how few of my generals died in battle. Basically none of them did, and I'm pretty sure that none of the other sides generals were killed either. I remember the last time I played a full campaign (about a year ago) that I only had a couple of my generals KIA.

I was wondering what are the chances of a general being killed or injured in action per the game mechanics?

During the Seven Years War Frederick lost quite a lot of his best generals early in the war. One of the things I find with losing none of my generals in action is that I don't feel the need to promote generals either which is a pity.

I don't mean this post as a criticism of the game (which I think is great). I'm just curious what other people's experiences are.

Ironically in my current game, Frederick II just died of disease last night while besiegging Koenigrattz which has put a real dampner on my campaign

[PhilThib]

I'll try to find time next month to investigate the matter

[Lord Irvine]

I'll try to find time next month to investigate the matter

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that there is a problem here to be fixed. I'm just curious what other people's experiences are who have played the game a lot more than me.

I really like the ability to promote generals but rarely do so because all my senior commanders refuse to get their head blown off. .

[Baris]

Prussians database generate some good leaders appear after a time(Stg rating 5-6,mostly with cavalryman trait) ) other than usual brilliant Heinlich, Keith etc. But as it is more of an operational game than other Ageod games(troop building limited) Prussians can have difficulties managing/resisting different fronts with higher death rates of their all the best generals. But I m not 100% sure of course it can be tested.

[Narwhal]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that there is a problem here to be fixed. I'm just curious what other people's experiences are who have played the game a lot more than me.

I really like the ability to promote generals but rarely do so because all my senior commanders refuse to get their head blown off. .

I actually completely agree with you and talked about that in another thread. By mid-games, you have so many commanders that CP (and nationality) is not an issue anymore, which is kind of sad.

Higher attrition rate would be bad both for the Austrian (who could lose his rare good commanders) and for the Prussian.

[Lord Irvine]

Prussians database generate some good leaders appear after a time(Stg rating 5-6,mostly with cavalryman trait) ) other than usual brilliant Heinlich, Keith etc. But as it is more of an operational game than other Ageod games(troop building limited) Prussians can have difficulties managing/resisting different fronts with higher death rates of their all the best generals. But I m not 100% sure of course it can be tested.

Personally for me a higher death rate would add a fresh challenge to the game and would reflect what actually happened to the Prussians better. Perhaps it would be better if it was an option you could pick before starting a campaign . I guess the devil would be in getting the right balance though. Also maybe a 'bullet proof' leadership trait could be added for Frederick as when he dies the game feels like it's over .

[Lord Irvine]

I actually completely agree with you and talked about that in another thread. By mid-games, you have so many commanders that CP (and nationality) is not an issue anymore, which is kind of sad.

Higher attrition rate would be bad both for the Austrian (who could lose his rare good commanders) and for the Prussian.

Good point about the CP effect, I hadn't considered that. By the way I've enjoyed reading your AAR on the Paradox forum. It's the reason I decided to crank up ROP again .

[Hohenlohe]

Personally for me a higher death rate would add a fresh challenge to the game and would reflect what actually happened to the Prussians better. Perhaps it would be better if it was an option you could pick before starting a campaign . I guess the devil would be in getting the right balance though. Also maybe a 'bullet proof' leadership trait could be added for Frederick as when he dies the game feels like it's over .

Wonderful idea!! It would be useful to give this trait indeed to good ole Frederic...I remember from some old historical anecdotes the story that the King was saved in one or more battles from death by one of his small tobacco boxes...*smiling* which stops the bullet...

I would also suggest (no it is not ironical...) to introduce the trait "The Adjudants' Sacrifice" like "no my hero may not die...I will sacrifice myself..." as the Adjudant will throw himself into the bullets' way or prevent his hero from dying at the hands of the enemy...*grin* this should improve protection by +3 for the general and reduce death availability by 50%...

But as some counterpart you could introduce a trait like "Vanguarder" or "Hero takes the front" aka the general leads his troops himself into the battle like the old Schwerin or the old Dessauer or even Napoleon at Marengo did with better cohesion(+10), better discipline(+2), better morale(+5) and better initiative(+2) better offensive fire(+2), better assault/charge value(+2) for the troops especially if the force ratio was somehow adversary like 1:2 or 1:3 plus but with a higher death(+150%) availability which comes into account at the end of the battle...

just some spleenic ideas...

Hohenlohe...

[Carrington]

"General, they really could hit an elephant at this dist...."

[Lord Irvine]

"General, they really could hit an elephant at this dist...."

A Blackadder quote comes to mind.....

General Melchett: Are you looking forward to the big push?
Private Baldrick: No sir, I'm absolutely terrified.
General Melchett: The healthy humor of the honest tommy. Don't worry my boy, if you should falter, remember that Captain Darling and I are behind you.
Captain Blackadder: About thirty-five miles behind you.

[Lord Irvine]

But as some counterpart you could introduce a trait like "Vanguarder" or "Hero takes the front" aka the general leads his troops himself into the battle like the old Schwerin or the old Dessauer or even Napoleon at Marengo did with better cohesion(+10), better discipline(+2), better morale(+5) and better initiative(+2) better offensive fire(+2), better assault/charge value(+2) for the troops especially if the force ratio was somehow adversary like 1:2 or 1:3 plus but with a higher death(+150%) availability which comes into account at the end of the battle...

I like the idea of a trait that raises the chances of injury for generals who lead from the front.


Does anyone know what are the factors used to calculate leader casualties in a battle?

[Baris]

There should be indeed more casualty rate for leaders. I have found it surprising that Heinlich made 100 battles against Russians by himself and didnt take a single wound But Im not sure Austrian have any precious leader that will be negatively effected from high death rates

Wonderful idea!! It would be useful to give this trait indeed to good ole Frederic...I remember from some old historical anecdotes the story that the King was saved in one or more battles from death by one of his small tobacco boxes...*smiling* which stops the bullet...

M.Kemal also luckly saved from bullets from not tobacco box but a big watch as I have read before. but as he drinks a lot that should be a bottle of "raki" Great leaders always have some good anecdotes. Mostly good ones

[Athens]

There should be indeed more casualty rate for leaders. I have found it surprising that Heinlich made 100 battles against Russians by himself and didnt take a single wound But Im not sure Austrian have any precious leader that will be negatively effected from high death rates


M.Kemal also luckly saved from bullets from not tobacco box but a big watch as I have read before. but as he drinks a lot that should be a bottle of "raki" Great leaders always have some good anecdotes. Mostly good ones

As much I remember, casualty values for leaders in ROP has been set at very very low levels.

[Narwhal]

Can i ask how you mod leader death rate ?

And also, in your opinion, what would be a good level ?

I think Loki and I are going for about 3 times more than we experienced in our previous games. I thought about even more (5 or even 8 times), but better have too few than too much.

[lodilefty]

Can i ask how you mod leader death rate ?

And also, in your opinion, what would be a good level ?

I think Loki and I are going for about 3 times more than we experienced in our previous games. I thought about even more (5 or even 8 times), but better have too few than too much.

Open GameLogic.opt [in \Settings]with NotePad or other text editor.

Find the line:

cbtLdrCasuDiceSides = 500 // Nb of sides for the casualty dice for rank 1 leaders, at the end of combat (twice as low for rank 2, rank 3 excluded)

Set a lower value for more death:

ex: 250 would double the current rate of casualties

[Narwhal]

Thank you Lodilefty. I will do just that.

If I ever get into negative manpower, be sure you will receive a mail

The fact that battles are going to be less bloody is great, though.

[lodilefty]

Thank you Lodilefty. I will do just that.

If I ever get into negative manpower, be sure you will receive a mail

The fact that battles are going to be less bloody is great, though.

If you get the negative manpower, go ahead and start a new thread and upload the save [be sure you upload the current turn and \Backup1 and \Backup2]

[Narwhal]

Hi there, Lodilefty. No negative manpower, you were right, even though I had other "MP" issues

Tweaking even violently with cbtLdrCasuDiceSides did not have noticeable impact (is it linked to that thread : http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?7863-Leader-Casualties ?), so we are going to go directly for the CombatDeathChance in the model file. I put it at 15 for one-star leader, 5 for two stars, 3 for three stars (but 0 for a few key leaders like Freddie and Von Daun). Anything I should know ?

Thank you.

- Guillaume

[Kaguya]

Can you upload your modified files, please? I want more leader deaths, because now, even in huge battles, I have NO ONE of generals died.
>cbtLdrCasuDiceSides did not have noticeable impact
Yes, no effect.

[Kaguya]

Narwhal, you reach limit of private messages, so i cannot send to you letter. I search in paradoxplaza, how Loki100 said in his AAR, where this modified file is used, but found nothing. Please, give me that files, if you have it at the moment.

[loki100]

Narwhal, you reach limit of private messages, so i cannot send to you letter. I search in paradoxplaza, how Loki100 said in his AAR, where this modified file is used, but found nothing. Please, give me that files, if you have it at the moment.

to be honest, it made no difference. Our game ended in a series of brutal battles in Saxony and as the Austrian I had only 1 killed corps commander and a few lost brigadiers, but this didn't match the scale of battle losses in the final 3-4 months of that game

[Narwhal]

My opinion exactly. Generals would - not - die. I lost 2 early on in that campaign, but then it was luck and did not lose more.

Maybe it got corrected in RoP gold, though ?

[Eugene Carr]

CombatDeathChance = # where #/10000. example given is 100 = 1% chance of becoming a casualty.

I think Narwhal's numbers are too low to make much difference I was using 150, 50 and 5 and felt that I was losing too many generals. ( would probably try 120,40,5 if doing again)
Once there is an updated DB you could run off a set of model files with the CombatDeathChance column populated. Possibly you can add it to the end of your existing files although that would be a big job!

S!

[Kaguya]

Ok, I will rewrite this strings. But one question: if commander will be promoted, he save his CombatDeathChance from previous rank? Not all of commanders have multiple files for every rank.