mjw
Lieutenant
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:58 pm

command and control

Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:16 pm

Ok, from what I understand, there will be two sides: allied vs. Prussia/Hannover/UK...correct? If that is the case, how much control will the player have over each nation? I ask because there was no "Supreme Allied Commander" that could coordinate the movements of the Austrian and russian armies. Will we be able to play one country and "coordiante " with the others? Can I control all of the military purchases for Russia, Sweden, Austria and France if I play that side?

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:17 pm

I believe you are correct that it is Coalition vs Coalition and the Player will control all of the members of his chosen Coalition. I think Hok confirmed this awhile ago. I was just thinking about posting this same question about how much control the Player will have over the nations in his Coalition. It seems that there will need to be some limiting factor in order to prevent the Austrian/French/Russian Coalition from simply swarming over Prussia through a perfecly coordinated assault. I am not sure if the activation rule will be enough of a hindrance by itself. I imagine that a combination of activation, supply, cohesion, and distances that France and especially Russia will need to travel to get to the heart of Prussia will limit the amount of simultaneous offensives. The anti-Prussian Coalition did meet and plan the yearly offensives, but it was difficult to coordinate them as you can imagine. I am sure that AGEOD has some ideas but I expect that a Prussian Player will be scrambling all over the map trying to hold back the deluge in any case.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

User avatar
Padreigh
Private
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: Leinster; Grand Duchy of Berg; Kingdom of Westphalia (moving around a lot...)

Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:33 pm

Although I am very much in favour of "swarming over Prussia through a perfecly coordinated assault" I agree that there should be some limiting factors to make this a game which is challenging for players of both sides.
After all, the game is not called "Fall of Prussia - Frederick's Defeat in the Seven Weeks War". :D
Frederick II. at Kolin to his retreating soldiers: "Kerls, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?"
(Do you want to live forever?)
Unfortunately we don't know his reaction to the answer he got: "Für dreizehn Pfennig wars für heute genug!"
(basically: I'd say we did enough today, considering what you pay us. :D)

User avatar
Florent
Posts: 1744
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:09 pm
Location: Mirambeau

Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:46 pm

Yes you are all right, moreover each nation had its own interests, its susceptibility. For example in 1760 the Austrians were against the idea of a russian siege of Breslau (fearing a devastation of the area claimed by Austria).
The russians didn't want to send a corps without supply to the Austrians in 1758 or 1759 because it would have been a case where the Austrians supplying the russians would have had the overall command.

For the game what have to be seen it what is simulated, Fred as the leader of his country and army had a great advantage over his ennemies and should be the only leader with the maximum of 6 in inititiative (able to move at will) with perhaps Ferdinand of Brunswick as a commander.
The Austrians are simulated i think by Maria-Theresa and the Hofkriegsrath (military council) doing plans for the year thus sometimes they will be activated at 33% rate of march nevertheless the Austrians had always general able to take initiative to counter (reach a better position, preventing Fred to do the same) or take initiative thus i don't see Generals like Brown, Daun, lacy (after resigning from General staff; with the creation of general staff the austrians should have bonus for movement especially in difficult terrain and for coordinated attacks in the same area or to see if adjacent forces come to help; historically it will represent the multicolums attacks created and organised in details for the roads taken, hours of departure chosen for the rgts by Lacy and the resulting battles of Hochkirch, Maissen, Maxen etc...) Hadik having initiative below 5.
The Swedes deserved the worst initiative leader since they didn't do much and Fred doubted they took part in the war :D .
The Russians represent the Tzarina and council of war but with generals slower in initiative either more or less traitor (Apraxin 3) or cautious like Saltikov (4).
Fermor seems to be the best (4 or 5).
But the problem is supply for the russians and we have to wait and see what Ageod did for that.
The French had a mix of good and bad all of this plagued by what happened in Versailles where a map of opérations was on the wall and anyone (with no military experience) could have an idea that was ordered to generals :bonk: .
Anyway playtesting will be very important here.

mjw
Lieutenant
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:58 pm

Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:07 pm

Yes, I think that the major block to coordination was the Russian distrust if Austrin motives. Often the Russians hesitated to move fearing that they would take the blunt of the punishment while leaving the Austrians to reap the rewards. Can't simulate everything I suppose.

What will force an end to the conflict? In real life, it was the death of Catherine and Russia's abandonment of the alliance. Will this be an automatic event that will end the game if the Prussian side can survive this long? or will there be the standard (and this works fine) victory point system. When a certain level is reached, one side wins. Sort of like the election of Lincoln in several civil war games...

User avatar
Florent
Posts: 1744
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:09 pm
Location: Mirambeau

Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:54 pm

I suppose also that Austria will have to survive early in the war. If Vienna is taken it's likely that the war will be finished by a Prussian victory.

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:56 pm

I think that Hok said that the possible death of Elizabeth would be a random event within a fairly narrow timespan. Or maybe I dreamed that. :wacko: I think about this game a large part of my day. I am almost obsessed. :happyrun:

I imagine that the victory conditions will be very similar to the other AGEOD games. A Prussian capture of Vienna might not be an automatic victory but it would certainly be a huge national morale boost for Prussia and be a disaster for the Anti-Prussian Coalition. Depends on whether Prussia gets bloodied very badly in taking it and whether they can hold it for any length of time. I guess Maria Theresa might be able to continue resistance from Hungary.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

User avatar
Hohenlohe
Posts: 588
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Munich

Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:48 am

Sol Invictus wrote:I think that Hok said that the possible death of Elizabeth would be a random event within a fairly narrow timespan. Or maybe I dreamed that. :wacko: I think about this game a large part of my day. I am almost obsessed. :happyrun:

I imagine that the victory conditions will be very similar to the other AGEOD games. A Prussian capture of Vienna might not be an automatic victory but it would certainly be a huge national morale boost for Prussia and be a disaster for the Anti-Prussian Coalition. Depends on whether Prussia gets bloodied very badly in taking it and whether they can hold it for any length of time. I guess Maria Theresa might be able to continue resistance from Hungary.


I think that a historical capture of Vienna would have lead to a decisive victory for Frederick especially if it would had happened in the first years of the war.So in the game it would lead to an immediate automatic victory.Beyond that it would give the Prussians a great morale boost and and a big increase in terms of VPs. I think that the victory conditions could be implemented similar to AACW so that in the first three years it would lead to an automatic victory and later to a high moral boost and VPs increase only.
For the coalition a capture of Berlin would only lead to a good moral boost and a decent increase in VPs because of the possible superiority in numbers.
Only the death of Frederick on the Battlefield would lead to an automatic victory of the coalition.That's my imagination and suggestion for the game.
Usually there will be certain objectives for either side to obtain and capture and additionally a certain number of strategic towns.But there will be more, a great number of VPs will be obtained through victorious battles for either side and the destruction of units and the killing of military leaders.

Some of you will ask why I prefer the Prussians more in case of a capture of the capital.The only reason I can tell is Frederick was the most important leader for the Prussian.His capture or death would have lead to a certain surrender of Prussia.This is the same for Maria Theresia, if the Prussian would have captured her by taking Vienna the Austrians would had been out of the war.Maria Theresia was a central and important leader for the Austrian like Frederick was for the Prussian.I think that there could be some events which will show this.

greetings


Hohenlohe, who regret that his bad english, because his vocabulary was not so good to make his imaginations more impressive... :wacko:


edit:in my last three school years I was very lazy learning my english vocabulary although I had English as a main lesson the last two years until matura... :sourcil:
R.I.P. Henry D.

In Remembrance of my Granduncle Hans Weber, a Hungaro-German Soldier,served in Austro-Hungarian Forces during WWI,war prisoner, missed in Sibiria 1918...

User avatar
aryaman
Posts: 738
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 6:19 pm

Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:38 am

The death of Frederick in battle is right now impossible, unless ageod battle system is changed, since 3star generals are inmortal.
As for coordination, there is a mechanism in the game to regulate how much command points cost to command a unit of other nation, that should be used to prevent the formation of, say, an Austro-French force with no command penalty.

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:25 pm

Hohenlohe, no worries, your English is just fine. :thumbsup: I agree with you, if Frederick had captured Vienna in the first year or two; which would almost certainly have been after a major battlefield victory; then the war would probably have ended. I also agree that the loss of Berlin should only be a moderate morale hit for the Prussians but if it is held by the Anti-Prussian Coalition for an extended period of time there should be increasing Prussian National Morale and Victory Point losses. Hopefully we get some more info on these weighty matters soon.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

mjw
Lieutenant
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:58 pm

Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:37 pm

aryaman wrote:The death of Frederick in battle is right now impossible, unless ageod battle system is changed, since 3star generals are inmortal.
As for coordination, there is a mechanism in the game to regulate how much command points cost to command a unit of other nation, that should be used to prevent the formation of, say, an Austro-French force with no command penalty.


mmmmm...Is this game ready yet??
Are we there yet?
are we there yet? :coeurs:

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:45 pm

I give it until late August before I explode. :blink:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

User avatar
Padreigh
Private
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: Leinster; Grand Duchy of Berg; Kingdom of Westphalia (moving around a lot...)

Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:03 pm

Late August? You, Sir, have nerves of steel. :)

I just hope that Frederick can die in battle. As far as I remember he had a few close calls in real life, so it should be possible for a cossack's lance or a pandour's bullet to end his life and probably the war as well.

Taking Vienna should only be an "instant win" if the invaders also manage to capture Maria-Theresia. And the Prussian force should be quite large as well, not just Ziethen with a couple of hundred hussars slipping through the Austrian lines.
Frederick II. at Kolin to his retreating soldiers: "Kerls, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?"

(Do you want to live forever?)

Unfortunately we don't know his reaction to the answer he got: "Für dreizehn Pfennig wars für heute genug!"

(basically: I'd say we did enough today, considering what you pay us. :D)

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:59 pm

Yeah, a minor raid should not end the war. Only after a major battlefield victory and a secure capture of Vienna. I don't think capturing Maria Thersa should be necessary though. I imagine capturing and holding Dresden, Prague, and Olmutz will go a long way toward a Prussian victory. I won't even hope to sleep in Schonbrunn or the Hofburg when I play Prussia. :non:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

User avatar
Hohenlohe
Posts: 588
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Munich

Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:32 am

Sol Invictus wrote:Yeah, a minor raid should not end the war. Only after a major battlefield victory and a secure capture of Vienna. I don't think capturing Maria Thersa should be necessary though. I imagine capturing and holding Dresden, Prague, and Olmutz will go a long way toward a Prussian victory. I won't even hope to sleep in Schonbrunn or the Hofburg when I play Prussia. :non:


Do not forget Breslau or Glatz, which was an important fortress in that time.
Together with Dresden,Prague and Olmütz the Prussian should be able to get at a minimum a minor Victory to decide the war.

greetings

Hohenlohe :D
R.I.P. Henry D.



In Remembrance of my Granduncle Hans Weber, a Hungaro-German Soldier,served in Austro-Hungarian Forces during WWI,war prisoner, missed in Sibiria 1918...

User avatar
PhilThib
Posts: 13705
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:21 pm
Location: Meylan (France)

Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:04 am

In the grand campaign scenario, we may have many different 'outcomes' or exit points, and may be not exclusive one from the other...

Victory could come from victory in the filed, by capturing key objectives..
It could also come when one (or more) power calls it quit and calls for peace, due to low morale (i.e. Lincoln election type)
It also could be that some war participants withdraw (Russia case) or find peace terms of their own (e.g. France and Great Britain coming to terms elsewhere and leaving the war), this being handled through play of options and FE points...
Or a multi-combination of all the aove ;)

What would be a nice help for us would be to get a list of key objectives (both owned and to be captured) for the main nations to ensure victory: i.E. what does Austria needs to keep and to gain in order to win (you may even include what objective should NOT be Russian as part of Austrian victory conditions, for instance ;) )
Image

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:43 pm

Hohenlohe wrote:Do not forget Breslau or Glatz, which was an important fortress in that time.
Together with Dresden,Prague and Olmütz the Prussian should be able to get at a minimum a minor Victory to decide the war.

greetings

Hohenlohe :D



Oh of course. I am asumming that if the Prussians capture Olmutz they will already have control over Breslau and Glatz. :thumbsup:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:46 pm

PhilThib wrote:In the grand campaign scenario, we may have many different 'outcomes' or exit points, and may be not exclusive one from the other...

Victory could come from victory in the filed, by capturing key objectives..
It could also come when one (or more) power calls it quit and calls for peace, due to low morale (i.e. Lincoln election type)
It also could be that some war participants withdraw (Russia case) or find peace terms of their own (e.g. France and Great Britain coming to terms elsewhere and leaving the war), this being handled through play of options and FE points...
Or a multi-combination of all the aove ;)

What would be a nice help for us would be to get a list of key objectives (both owned and to be captured) for the main nations to ensure victory: i.E. what does Austria needs to keep and to gain in order to win (you may even include what objective should NOT be Russian as part of Austrian victory conditions, for instance ;) )




I will submit my list of objectives today. :gardavou:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

User avatar
aryaman
Posts: 738
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 6:19 pm

Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:15 pm

Philippe
The use of NM points in a 7YW scenario should be very different from ACW. Losing cities was not morally relevant, the Saxons kept fighting with the whole of Saxony occupied, and it is problematic what morale impact would have the fall of Olmutz to the French or the fall of Cambray to the Russians.
We have also the historical examples of Napoleonic wars, the Austrians kept fighting despite the fall of Viena until his army was destroyed in Austerlitz, the Prussians kept fighting even when the army was destroyed at Jena and Berlin taken.
In that period, armies were not nations in arms, they were Royal Armies, as long as the Sovereign had an army and the financial resources to keep it on the field, he could continue the fight.
So, IMO the game should not give NM points for taking cities, or if any, very few, so they are not decissive. Instead, cities should be very important as sources of revenues.
Losing Dresde and Leipzig would not have caused any morale setback to the Prussians, but it would have hampered their war effort decissively.

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:39 pm

aryaman wrote:Philippe
The use of NM points in a 7YW scenario should be very different from ACW. Losing cities was not morally relevant, the Saxons kept fighting with the whole of Saxony occupied, and it is problematic what morale impact would have the fall of Olmutz to the French or the fall of Cambray to the Russians.
We have also the historical examples of Napoleonic wars, the Austrians kept fighting despite the fall of Viena until his army was destroyed in Austerlitz, the Prussians kept fighting even when the army was destroyed at Jena and Berlin taken.
In that period, armies were not nations in arms, they were Royal Armies, as long as the Sovereign had an army and the financial resources to keep it on the field, he could continue the fight.
So, IMO the game should not give NM points for taking cities, or if any, very few, so they are not decissive. Instead, cities should be very important as sources of revenues.
Losing Dresde and Leipzig would not have caused any morale setback to the Prussians, but it would have hampered their war effort decissively.




I agree completely. I do think that the loss/capture of strategic cities should have a NM impact, but it should in no way be decisive. As you stated, the real impact of loosing major cities should be the loss of resources and the slow eating away of the strength of the nation. Battlefield victory should have a greater NM impact but that as well should not be decisive unless it exhausts the capacity of a nation to continue the struggle.

I am not sure how far Maria Theresa would have carried on the struggle if Vienna had fallen, but I think if Vienna had fallen and she still had forces in the field she would have tried to carry on the struggle. The SYW only ended after all combatants became financially exhausted. As with almost every coalition war, it should be an attritional grind of endurance.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

User avatar
Florent
Posts: 1744
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:09 pm
Location: Mirambeau

Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:16 pm

I agree too with Aryaman about nation moral. It's more about Monarchic Will level to stay in the war (as seen in a recent game (GMT).
For Victory the Austrians wanted Silesia back, thus as stated above Breslau, Glatz, Schweidnitz fortresses should have points.
Silesia was important for manpower too.
Saxony allow recruit and money (the rape of Saxony) 43000000 thalers stolen during the war (Duffy).
Philippe, also the Russians were not welcome in Silesia for fear of devastation by this army always in lack of supply so a nasty rule is needed here :D .
For Prussia the "gate" of Brandebourg as was called Magdebourg is very important as it was the supply source for opérations in Saxony, thus you have to put big points here, historically when the French and Reicharmee started to close, Fred reacted immediately (Rosbach).
Kolberg, Stettin and Küstrin are important fortresses that allow the russians to stay there in winter rather than to go back to vistula thus many points here also. Küstrin should be i think a level 2 fortress.
Saxony had the fortresses of Torgau, Wittemberg, Dresden on the Elbe, holding these fortress doesn't hinder supply and was important for Prussia.

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:52 pm

I assume that the standard Strategic Cities and Objective Cities will apply:

Prussia Strategic Cities to hold:

1. Minden
2. Wesel
3. Stettin
4. Halberstadt
5. Kassel
6. Custrin
7. Frankfurt
8. Neisse
9. Konigsburg
10. Glogau
11. Brieg
12. Demmin
13. Schweidnitz
14. Glatz
15. Cosel

Objectives to hold:

1. Berlin
2. Magdeburg
3. Breslau
4. Colburg

Strategic Cities to gain:

1. Torgau
2. Pirna
3. Leipzig
4. Wittenburg
5. Braunau

Objectives to gain:

1. Rugen
2. Dresden
3. Prague
4. Olmutz
5. Brunn
6. Vienna


England:

Hold Hanover

France Strategic Cities to gain:

1. Wesel
2. Minden
3. Halle

Objective Cities to gain:

1. Hanover
2. Magdeburg
3. Berlin

Russian Strategic Cities to gain:

1. Konigsburg
2. Custrin
3. Glogau

Objectives to gain:

1. Colburg
2. Berlin
3. Stettin

Austrian strategic Cities to hold:

1. Wittenburg
2. Torgau
3. Meissen
4. Leipzig
5. Kolin
6. Koniggratz

Objective Cities to hold:

1. Dresden
2. Prague
3. Olmutz
4. Brunn
5. Vienna

Strategic cities to gain:

1. Glatz
2. Neisse
3. Schweidnitz
4. Brieg
5. Potdam

Objective Cities to gain:

1. Breslau(Keep Russia from grabbing)
2. Glogau(Keep Russia from grabbing)
3. Magdeburg
4. Berlin

I am sure I have left out a few but I will add when I realize these omissions.

All this said, the main road to victory should be destroying your opponents ability to carry on the fight and this should be determined by how much of their army is destroyed and how able they are to replace these losses.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

User avatar
Florent
Posts: 1744
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:09 pm
Location: Mirambeau

Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:55 pm

"I suppose also that Austria will have to survive early in the war. If Vienna is taken it's likely that the war will be finished by a Prussian victory."
It is doubtful that if Austria lose Vienna early(the most important member of the coalition and that there is no longer any army in the field that the coalition would have survive the blow especially as i stated early in the war meaning 1756-1757 when the French and Russians didn't show themselves yet(see Duffy here).
Basically if Kölin (june 1757) had been a great Prussian victory with the last Army on the field beaten or destroyed and 46000 more men in Prague ready to surrender, the road to Vienna was open and the coalition doomed.
The loss of Bohemia would have been nevertheless inacceptable for Austria as losing one of the most populous area after losing Silesia in the last war, so i agree that if an army is still there even if Vienna is taken, there is some hope, remember that the LOC of Fred will be over long distance and that the Croats and light troops could cut the line of supply.
But with all Austrian armies out of war so early this is game over .
This is not surprising that after the Great victory of Kölin the order of Maria-Theresa was created to show the political importance of this victory.

The French have to occupy the Prussian duchies on the Rhine and take Hannover.
If they keep Hannover, Canada will be back in french hands at the end of the war.
The Russians with Elysabeth obey Peter the Great's Testament to expand toward the west and East-Prussia and they desesperately :p leure: need a base closer to the main theater in order to avoid covering long distances to reach it to fight and again for the winter.
The Dantzig problem has to be studied here as they are said to have closed their city and Dantzig was Poland property and ...ally to coalition thus you can't storm a friendly town :bonk: . Posen deserve a look too.
It can be noted that Russia and Britain didn' stop trading during the war despite being ennemy and that it is doubtful that a russian navy would have been attacked by the Royal Navy in case of supporting action by the Russians. Of course the question is how big was the Russian Navy at this time ?

User avatar
Florent
Posts: 1744
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:09 pm
Location: Mirambeau

Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:00 pm

Ohoh crossing posts there :thumbsup: You are fairly complete omiting perhaps Kosel the last fortress of Silesia. and finishing some town with berg rather than burg :D . Nice work.

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:07 pm

Florent wrote:Ohoh crossing posts there :thumbsup: You are fairly complete omiting perhaps Kosel the last fortress of Silesia. and finishing some town with berg rather than burg :D . Nice work.


Thanks for the kind remarks. Berg/Burg. :blink: :confused: ;)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

orca
Lieutenant
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Objectives/strategic cities

Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:48 am

I noticed nothing for Sweden. Clearly their objective should be Stettin - about the best the Swedes could hope to get from the SYW was to get back the rest of Hither Pommerania that had been lost 35 years earlier.

Similarly Stralsund ought to be a minor objective for Prussia. Frederick never had the chance, but much like Silesia he had a good dynastic claim to all of Pommerania going back more than a century, and it would round out his possesions.

Also there aren't any objectives listed for the Imperial troops (Reicharmee). I'm not sure what they should be, but there also ought to be some objective for Britain/Prussia that would drive the Reichsarmee out of the war. Perhaps Frankfurt-on-Main?

I also think that Ferdinand (Britain?) needs to have a 'stretch goal'. He did try to cross the Rhine, I think he ought to have an objective on the West Bank. Perhaps Mainz, which could block French supply lines along both the Rhine and Moselle? Or maybe Cologne - an important French ally?

Also, shouldn't Cassel/Kassel and Brunswick be important objectives for Britain, as they are the capitals of powers that contributed large contingents to Ferdinand's army. I don't see Cassel as a Prussian objective.

Should Emden be a British objective? It controls the mouth of the Weser, which I believe was Ferdinand main supply axis.

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:21 am

I only tried to make lists for the majors but your additions sound good to me orca. :thumbsup: I had some trouble coming up with locations in the West so your additions are most helpful to Phil I am sure.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

mjw
Lieutenant
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:58 pm

Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:27 pm

We just need to be careful not to force the player to re-create the original strategies that were actually used. I may want to do that...or I may want to create a new strategy for taking Prussia out. I would hate to see objectives based on what the armies originally tried to take as opposed to objectives that would have helped to attain the original purpose of the war.

In other words, Ferdinand may have tried to capture this or that...but as the player, should I be forced to do so as well?? especially if the objectives attempted by ferdinand would not have rally made much impact?

I don't want to be forced into a recreation of the 7 yrs war...I want to fight it for myself using my own strategy. Of course, you still need objectives based on what we believe would have been important to capture.

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:43 pm

I agree mjw, that is why I hope that the destruction of the enemy army and the resulting loss of enemy will to continue the struggle is the ultimate objective. Capturing of physical objectives should be more of a slow nibbling away at the the resources that can allow the enemy to continue the struggle through denial of access to men and money.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

User avatar
Florent
Posts: 1744
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:09 pm
Location: Mirambeau

Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:53 pm

Don't worry mjw, with all the objectives above you have numerous choices open to you even if some will be played often... or always but in the details the choice is yours.
There will be points for Austria in Saxony or Silesia but YOU as a player will choose your main effort in the campaign :w00t:
The russians have not much choice have they have to take a base of operations closer to Prussia rather than to spend their time on the roads(for example they left the Vistula on 29 May 1758, left Posen on july 11 and reached Prussia early august (Küstrin besieged thereafter) and fought at Zorndorf august 28, but YOU will have to choose between Kolberg, Küstrin, Stettin (meaning working with the Swedes) or trying to go for Breslau in order to work with the Austrians for capturing a base.
For the French, striking Hannover is logical since this a British possession and the game doesn't include all of France if you wanted to choose the invasion of Britain, the points for taking Hannover will be important since at the end you will exchange Quebec and Canada for Hannover.
This was the strategic decision for France but YOU can choose to send regular French armies to help Austria...at your own risk especially when facing Ferdinand, moreover if there is choice for Prussia-Britain for a raid option on the french coast, some of your Rgts will be called back in France as it happened historically.
Nevertheless i hope that there will be an option in case of Ferdinand closing on french borders to have the possibility to have a few more Rgts send (emergency) to reinforce the army there and including the " Gardes Françaises" :thumbsup: from " La Maison du Roi " in order to prevent a loss of prestige if France is invaded. It could have been a possibility.
Historically "Les Gardes Françaises" were not used in the 7 years war.
Anyway the game looks promising.

Return to “Rise of Prussia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest