One of the most frustrating aspects of this game is Russian supply. I've played several practice games with 1.03 b4, so the sea supply and tracing across neutral ground problems are fixed (I suppose). Even so, I can't seem to keep a Russian army in being, because even if I can keep it supplied in the campaign season, in winter supply doesn't move and everyone starves to death.
Russian logistics aren't supposed to be easy, but neither should it be impossible to maintain the army. I've tried building plenty of depots, but the problem seems to be the long distance from the offmap areas - supply from Russia & Kurland narrows to a trickle in the winter, no matter how many depots and towns you have in E. Prussia.
The only solution I can see now is to begin withdrawing the entire army, apart from one corps to hold the ground, sometime in the autumn in order to get it back into Russia before the snow falls. Not very realistic, since from what I can gather the Russian main army wintered in E. Prussia most of the war. And a major strategic liability, since I'm essentially depriving myself of the Russian army 2/3rds of the year.
Anyone worked out a better method to keep the Ivans fed? Some tinkering under the hood is required, I think - Koenigsburg needs to produce more supply, maybe?
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Ebbingford
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I'm playing the long campaign with the 1.03b5 patch as Austria.
The supply issues for the Russians definitely need tweeking.
I have pulled all my forces back to Kurland and Russia and left 2 corps in Memel. In the winter Memel is not drawing any supply from the OMB's, in fact the "Pass is blocked by snow" symbols are showing so I guess this is WAD. Memel itself is not producing enough supply to keep my forces there fed. However, Kurland and Russia do not seem to be producing enough supply to keep the troops fed that I have sent back there.
My supply needs for the Russian troops wintering in Memel are 385, Kurland 321, and Russia 288.
From the manual a city produces 8 per level, depot, harbour and fort all 4 per level. Memel is meant to produce 28 per turn, Kurland 144, and Russia 174. These figures do not include the nm modifier which would be about another 9% on top at the moment in my campaign. This is still not enough supply to feed all the troops though.
The supply filter is also showing green for each of these 3 regions at the moment, from the figures above it should be red though.
Of course in the winter when the harbours are frozen these then produce no supply.
I have also just noticed that this turn Memel has sent and received 0 supply. Kurland has received 72 and sent 87, and Russia received 16 and sent 0. These figures don't add up, where has the Kurland supply come from and gone to?
Save attached if needed.
The supply issues for the Russians definitely need tweeking.
I have pulled all my forces back to Kurland and Russia and left 2 corps in Memel. In the winter Memel is not drawing any supply from the OMB's, in fact the "Pass is blocked by snow" symbols are showing so I guess this is WAD. Memel itself is not producing enough supply to keep my forces there fed. However, Kurland and Russia do not seem to be producing enough supply to keep the troops fed that I have sent back there.
My supply needs for the Russian troops wintering in Memel are 385, Kurland 321, and Russia 288.
From the manual a city produces 8 per level, depot, harbour and fort all 4 per level. Memel is meant to produce 28 per turn, Kurland 144, and Russia 174. These figures do not include the nm modifier which would be about another 9% on top at the moment in my campaign. This is still not enough supply to feed all the troops though.
The supply filter is also showing green for each of these 3 regions at the moment, from the figures above it should be red though.
Of course in the winter when the harbours are frozen these then produce no supply.
I have also just noticed that this turn Memel has sent and received 0 supply. Kurland has received 72 and sent 87, and Russia received 16 and sent 0. These figures don't add up, where has the Kurland supply come from and gone to?
Save attached if needed.
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Ebbingford
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Ebbingford
- Posts: 6162
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I was starting to wonder this same thing. Playing as the Russians can be extremely fun, but also extremely aggravating. There are simply not enough supplies to keep even cossacks, never mind armies in the field for any great length of time. And in Winter...LOL...Seriously, the Russians should receive some kind of bonus for the Winter for obvious reasons, in addition to fixing the supply issue. For example, marauding cossacks were to able to do just that, maraud. Single or even combined cossack units did not need as many supplies as did an entire army to operate in hostile territory, even in the most severe weather conditions. Something in the game should be done to reflect this. Thanks!
Ok, so now I am playing the Austrian side, and getting hit by the Russian supplpy problem myself. It should be a bit better then in previous builds, as Memel (I think) got better supply. It still comes up short. I kept an account over the last few turns, here are my notes:
Turn 22: The Russians landed 10.000 men at Memel. They lay siege to the town.
Turn 23: The Garrison of Memel surrendered to the Russians. More units arrived from Kurland, and the main push to Koeningsberg is on. I get a level 2 Border Depot.
Turn 24: More Russians arrived. I build a depot at Ragnit (2 regions to the west of the Border Depot, 2 regions east of Koeningsberg).
Turn 25: This turn the army arrived at Koeningsberg, and took over the siege.
Turn 26: From the Russian front nothing new.
Turn 27: Some troubling developments on the Russian front. I have a supply depot on the edge of the map (a level 2 depot, called Border Depot, it is a scenario placed one), a depot two regions to the west, and Memel, which gets independent supplies. I also have supplies in the Russian regions, Kurland and Russia. It seems the Regions only send supplies every other turn - this turn 0/0 was send from Russia to the Border Depot. The Border Depot itself now has 400 supply, and has 800 send this turn - but it received none (obviously). The depot two regions to the west didn't receive any though.... It was apparently all absorbed by the troops. Still, some of the troops are getting low on supply. The depot at Memel meanwhile is full at 1200 (received 770, send 440). I will build a depot two regions south of Memel, near the depot halfway the Border depot and Koeningsberg. I hope I can at least keep my troops in supply in eastern Prussia....
(I might be missing a turn here....and my numbering might be off - have to check).
Turn 28: The Russians at Koeningsberg still didn't have any success, despite the siege guns and engineers. Neither Russia nor Kurland send any supply this turn. The Border depot didn't receive any (duh), send 840 and has 370 left. Memel has 1200, received 750 and send 377. The depot at Gardenen didn't receive or send any, nor did the depot at Ragnit. Koeningsberg (the enemy?!!) received 381. The new depot at Braunsberg received 36, send 0 and has 0 (????). The only troops going out of supply seem to be those with supply wagons, which are running into the red.
Turn 29: First snow. All troops try to get on to a depot, except for one column, that keeps laying siege to Koeningsberg. There are still no breaches here, and the defenders received another 111 supplies. My "blocking" ships are gone - though I guess the waters will freeze soon. Russia now has 3700 supply, it received 3200 and send 1300. Kurland has 920 supply, it received 0, and send 3200. Memel has 690 supply. It received 0, and send 530.It looks like Kurland send supplies to Russia....
The Border Depot has 1500 supply, received 1450 and sent 217. The other depots: Garderen (2 regions south of Memel, north of Ragnit) is empty, didn't receive anything and didn't send anything. Ragnit is empty, though it received 156 and did not send anything (it did hand out the 156 to the troops?).
The last depot at Braunsberg (on the Polish border) is empty, received 30 and send nothing. My toops with supply wagons are in the red, other troops show up green.
Turn 30, The snow is gone again, now it is raining everywhere. The Russian supply situation. Russia has 3760 supply, received and send none. Kurland has 970 supply, received and send none. Memel has 680 supply, received and send none. My Border Depot has 1250, received 141, send 146... All my other depots have no supply, and received and send none. Several of my units are running into the red now. I counted all the supply I need - my Rsusian troops use 727 each turn. This is with some Cossack units (5 supply/turn) already gone, so it used to be about 750.
Turn 22: The Russians landed 10.000 men at Memel. They lay siege to the town.
Turn 23: The Garrison of Memel surrendered to the Russians. More units arrived from Kurland, and the main push to Koeningsberg is on. I get a level 2 Border Depot.
Turn 24: More Russians arrived. I build a depot at Ragnit (2 regions to the west of the Border Depot, 2 regions east of Koeningsberg).
Turn 25: This turn the army arrived at Koeningsberg, and took over the siege.
Turn 26: From the Russian front nothing new.
Turn 27: Some troubling developments on the Russian front. I have a supply depot on the edge of the map (a level 2 depot, called Border Depot, it is a scenario placed one), a depot two regions to the west, and Memel, which gets independent supplies. I also have supplies in the Russian regions, Kurland and Russia. It seems the Regions only send supplies every other turn - this turn 0/0 was send from Russia to the Border Depot. The Border Depot itself now has 400 supply, and has 800 send this turn - but it received none (obviously). The depot two regions to the west didn't receive any though.... It was apparently all absorbed by the troops. Still, some of the troops are getting low on supply. The depot at Memel meanwhile is full at 1200 (received 770, send 440). I will build a depot two regions south of Memel, near the depot halfway the Border depot and Koeningsberg. I hope I can at least keep my troops in supply in eastern Prussia....
(I might be missing a turn here....and my numbering might be off - have to check).
Turn 28: The Russians at Koeningsberg still didn't have any success, despite the siege guns and engineers. Neither Russia nor Kurland send any supply this turn. The Border depot didn't receive any (duh), send 840 and has 370 left. Memel has 1200, received 750 and send 377. The depot at Gardenen didn't receive or send any, nor did the depot at Ragnit. Koeningsberg (the enemy?!!) received 381. The new depot at Braunsberg received 36, send 0 and has 0 (????). The only troops going out of supply seem to be those with supply wagons, which are running into the red.
Turn 29: First snow. All troops try to get on to a depot, except for one column, that keeps laying siege to Koeningsberg. There are still no breaches here, and the defenders received another 111 supplies. My "blocking" ships are gone - though I guess the waters will freeze soon. Russia now has 3700 supply, it received 3200 and send 1300. Kurland has 920 supply, it received 0, and send 3200. Memel has 690 supply. It received 0, and send 530.It looks like Kurland send supplies to Russia....
The Border Depot has 1500 supply, received 1450 and sent 217. The other depots: Garderen (2 regions south of Memel, north of Ragnit) is empty, didn't receive anything and didn't send anything. Ragnit is empty, though it received 156 and did not send anything (it did hand out the 156 to the troops?).
The last depot at Braunsberg (on the Polish border) is empty, received 30 and send nothing. My toops with supply wagons are in the red, other troops show up green.
Turn 30, The snow is gone again, now it is raining everywhere. The Russian supply situation. Russia has 3760 supply, received and send none. Kurland has 970 supply, received and send none. Memel has 680 supply, received and send none. My Border Depot has 1250, received 141, send 146... All my other depots have no supply, and received and send none. Several of my units are running into the red now. I counted all the supply I need - my Rsusian troops use 727 each turn. This is with some Cossack units (5 supply/turn) already gone, so it used to be about 750.
As you can see in the above post, it seems Russia and Kurland only send supplies every other turn. Sometimes Kurland sends supplies to Russia, and Russia sends them to the Border Depot. Why each other turn? Because it is more then 15 days travel from the of map region to the depot?
I need about 750 supply each turn to keep my troops fed.
It looks like Memel and the Border Depot send the supplies (if they have them?) directly to the troops - my other depots, even though they are between the troops and the Border Depot/ Memel don't get anything.
Most turns Memel and the Border Depot send enough supply to keep the troops fed (750+), sometimes more, but last time seriously less. Due to the snow? But why didnt get Ragnit any of it then? The Border Depot had 1250 supply, send only 146.... This is the amount needed by the troops in the Region. Do I need to build a depot in each region, as the supply can not reach two regions in the snow?
I need about 750 supply each turn to keep my troops fed.
It looks like Memel and the Border Depot send the supplies (if they have them?) directly to the troops - my other depots, even though they are between the troops and the Border Depot/ Memel don't get anything.
Most turns Memel and the Border Depot send enough supply to keep the troops fed (750+), sometimes more, but last time seriously less. Due to the snow? But why didnt get Ragnit any of it then? The Border Depot had 1250 supply, send only 146.... This is the amount needed by the troops in the Region. Do I need to build a depot in each region, as the supply can not reach two regions in the snow?
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squarian
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Bertram, good idea to collect this data - so far, we (I especially) have taken note of what was happening without actually taking notes.
My recollection is that supply movement seems to grind to a halt once it snows. Not sure why that is - terrain and weather affects supply "pushes", but how exactly this is works with OB regions, I've never seen explained.
As I recall, there's a serious danger that halfway through the winter, your supply network simply collapses because no supply moves from Russia/Kurland to the on-board depots. Then all the Russian soldiers die. And then you begin to wonder why you marched them onto the map in the first place. Hopefully recent beta changes will make a difference, but I guess we'll find out.
My recollection is that supply movement seems to grind to a halt once it snows. Not sure why that is - terrain and weather affects supply "pushes", but how exactly this is works with OB regions, I've never seen explained.
As I recall, there's a serious danger that halfway through the winter, your supply network simply collapses because no supply moves from Russia/Kurland to the on-board depots. Then all the Russian soldiers die. And then you begin to wonder why you marched them onto the map in the first place. Hopefully recent beta changes will make a difference, but I guess we'll find out.
Russians in the snow without food - continued from above:
Turn 31: Snow again. Russia has 1470 in stock, received 0, send 2641 (!). Kurland has 3064 in stock, received 1880 , send 0. (Did they receive these back from Russia?). Memel has 710, received 710, send 670. (it send everything it has last turn?). The Border Depot has 480, received 360, send 1024. The other depots have 0, received 0, send 0. I am sending troops back to Russia, otherwise they will starve.
Turn 32: Snow of course... Russia: supply 2700, received 2100, send 1070. Kurland: supply 930, received 0, send 2100 (send back to Russia). Memel: supply 420, received 200, send 500. Border Depot: Stock 1150, received 1210, send 430. Next depot to the west (Pilkanen): 0, 0 and 0. Next one (Ragnit): same. Next one Gross-Jagersdorf) supply 0, received 370, send 0. Koeningsberg (the enemy) received 244.
Turn 33: Snow. Supply: Russia has 2800, received and send 0. Kurland has 975, received and send 0. Memel has 200, received 146, send 369. The Border Depot has 244, received 0, send 816. Gross-Jagersdorf has 0, received 1038 (!?), send 0. All other depots have 0, received 0, send 0.
I lost 16 elements of (heavy) cavalry, because they starved. Troops using 140 supply arrived in back Russia, so I now need 220 less supply, meaning I need about 500 each turn. Troops in Eastern Prussia are between 100% and 25% supplied, but some troops in the same region have different supply %.
If anyone can find some pattern in this...... I think that the weather the previous turn has influence on the supply send. It seem sometimes supply is send between Russia and Kurland, only to be send back the next turn. For some reason all depots - except for the Border Depot - don't get any supply, enven though military control is 100%, and loyality is generally just short of 40%. (The military control of the region the Border Depot is in is 5% Austrian, 95% Polish). But just when you think the depots are not functioning at all, the depot at Gross-Jagersdorf (the region east of Koeningsberg) receives lots of supply - even if nothing stays there... (there was an army and a column there, with a number (4 - 5) of supply wagons, so maybe those took it in, instead of the depot).
Turn 31: Snow again. Russia has 1470 in stock, received 0, send 2641 (!). Kurland has 3064 in stock, received 1880 , send 0. (Did they receive these back from Russia?). Memel has 710, received 710, send 670. (it send everything it has last turn?). The Border Depot has 480, received 360, send 1024. The other depots have 0, received 0, send 0. I am sending troops back to Russia, otherwise they will starve.
Turn 32: Snow of course... Russia: supply 2700, received 2100, send 1070. Kurland: supply 930, received 0, send 2100 (send back to Russia). Memel: supply 420, received 200, send 500. Border Depot: Stock 1150, received 1210, send 430. Next depot to the west (Pilkanen): 0, 0 and 0. Next one (Ragnit): same. Next one Gross-Jagersdorf) supply 0, received 370, send 0. Koeningsberg (the enemy) received 244.
Turn 33: Snow. Supply: Russia has 2800, received and send 0. Kurland has 975, received and send 0. Memel has 200, received 146, send 369. The Border Depot has 244, received 0, send 816. Gross-Jagersdorf has 0, received 1038 (!?), send 0. All other depots have 0, received 0, send 0.
I lost 16 elements of (heavy) cavalry, because they starved. Troops using 140 supply arrived in back Russia, so I now need 220 less supply, meaning I need about 500 each turn. Troops in Eastern Prussia are between 100% and 25% supplied, but some troops in the same region have different supply %.
If anyone can find some pattern in this...... I think that the weather the previous turn has influence on the supply send. It seem sometimes supply is send between Russia and Kurland, only to be send back the next turn. For some reason all depots - except for the Border Depot - don't get any supply, enven though military control is 100%, and loyality is generally just short of 40%. (The military control of the region the Border Depot is in is 5% Austrian, 95% Polish). But just when you think the depots are not functioning at all, the depot at Gross-Jagersdorf (the region east of Koeningsberg) receives lots of supply - even if nothing stays there... (there was an army and a column there, with a number (4 - 5) of supply wagons, so maybe those took it in, instead of the depot).
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Ebbingford
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I've just played through to june 1758 as the Austrians in the long campaign.
I built a depot at Ragnit, changed the MC of the regions between the Memel depot and it and also from it to the map edge depot that appears with the main Russian force. I only sent back to Russia a few cavalry elements. Brown I gave the biggest force he could command without penalties and sent it to siege Koenigsberg. He sat there in the snow all winter, it finally fell in the spring, and I didn't have any starvation anywhere. I did make 2 convoy trips, one with 3 supply wagons from the map edge depot to Brown, and 1 from the middle depot with 2 wagons. I was playing with hardened attrition on, as always, and didn't even suffer too many casualties to that. Supply was going to my 4 stacks all through the winter, it was even getting pulled through to Brown 2 regions further than the last depot.
The next thing to check is if the supply will now pass through the Polish lands, and how many depots will need to be built to supply even 1 column on the way to Kolberg.
The problem with depots that are built by the player not getting supply has been fixed, see Pocus' post here. (I'm guessing here that the same problem is in RoP if it is in AACW.)
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=189475&postcount=329
I built a depot at Ragnit, changed the MC of the regions between the Memel depot and it and also from it to the map edge depot that appears with the main Russian force. I only sent back to Russia a few cavalry elements. Brown I gave the biggest force he could command without penalties and sent it to siege Koenigsberg. He sat there in the snow all winter, it finally fell in the spring, and I didn't have any starvation anywhere. I did make 2 convoy trips, one with 3 supply wagons from the map edge depot to Brown, and 1 from the middle depot with 2 wagons. I was playing with hardened attrition on, as always, and didn't even suffer too many casualties to that. Supply was going to my 4 stacks all through the winter, it was even getting pulled through to Brown 2 regions further than the last depot.
The next thing to check is if the supply will now pass through the Polish lands, and how many depots will need to be built to supply even 1 column on the way to Kolberg.
The problem with depots that are built by the player not getting supply has been fixed, see Pocus' post here. (I'm guessing here that the same problem is in RoP if it is in AACW.)
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=189475&postcount=329
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Ebbingford
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