Saxon Capitulation

[caranorn]

I don't think I understand how the Saxon Capitulation Event is triggered. So far I thought the Austrian player could prevent this event from firing by controlling one of the access roads to Pirna (Dresden, Radisberg or Dippoldiswalde). I also thought the latest this event could fire was late December 1756...

In my current game I managed to relieve Pirna, marching to Radisberg on the right bank of the Elbe with Browne, Lucchese and Kollowrath a(dn of course Hadik and Gaisruck). All of that to support Rutowski. I then marched part of the Austrian Army across the Elbe to Pirna. From there I advanced to Dippoldiswalde and only withdrew my rearguard from Radisberg and then Pirna once I was firmly in control of the pass back into Bohemia. By the first snow and blizzard may Army was withdrawn into the pass and was ejected from the mountains to the south. By late December I had withdrawn the entire force (Browne, Lucchese, Kollowrath and Rutowski) to the outskirts of Prag. I was still listed as in control of Dippoldiswalde though I no longer had a force there (I was relying on General Winter). So I was a bit shocked that with the early January 1757 turn the Saxons surrendered and I once again had a leaderless Saxon Army (in almost mint state) under my command (in the meantime the Prussians had relaid siege to Pirna in which I'd only left a skeleton garrison (garrison, supply and a single battery)...

Obviously I was only able to pull all the above off because the ai found it more attractive to try and attack Prag by slipping around my left, rather than assure the Saxon Army was destroyed or Browne be given a mauling. Of course they failed as Picolomini was able to defend that city (with the aid of the Saxon guard and Grenadiers which I'd evacuated by boat from Pirna)...

P.S.: Getting a bit frustrated by this event. I'd be happy if I could only save the Saxon Guard, Grenadiers and some cavalry with the leaders to command them. Ruttowski would be an added bonus, but not necessary. And the Saxon Line isn't that attractive to me. For now I'll just reload the previous turn and edit the save game to prevent this event from firing again...

[lodilefty]

I don't think I understand how the Saxon Capitulation Event is triggered. So far I thought the Austrian player could prevent this event from firing by controlling one of the access roads to Pirna (Dresden, Radisberg or Dippoldiswalde). I also thought the latest this event could fire was late December 1756...

In my current game I managed to relieve Pirna, marching to Radisberg on the right bank of the Elbe with Browne, Lucchese and Kollowrath a(dn of course Hadik and Gaisruck). All of that to support Rutowski. I then marched part of the Austrian Army across the Elbe to Pirna. From there I advanced to Dippoldiswalde and only withdrew my rearguard from Radisberg and then Pirna once I was firmly in control of the pass back into Bohemia. By the first snow and blizzard may Army was withdrawn into the pass and was ejected from the mountains to the south. By late December I had withdrawn the entire force (Browne, Lucchese, Kollowrath and Rutowski) to the outskirts of Prag. I was still listed as in control of Dippoldiswalde though I no longer had a force there (I was relying on General Winter). So I was a bit shocked that with the early January 1757 turn the Saxons surrendered and I once again had a leaderless Saxon Army (in almost mint state) under my command (in the meantime the Prussians had relaid siege to Pirna in which I'd only left a skeleton garrison (garrison, supply and a single battery)...

Obviously I was only able to pull all the above off because the ai found it more attractive to try and attack Prag by slipping around my left, rather than assure the Saxon Army was destroyed or Browne be given a mauling. Of course they failed as Picolomini was able to defend that city (with the aid of the Saxon guard and Grenadiers which I'd evacuated by boat from Pirna)...

P.S.: Getting a bit frustrated by this event. I'd be happy if I could only save the Saxon Guard, Grenadiers and some cavalry with the leaders to command them. Ruttowski would be an added bonus, but not necessary. And the Saxon Line isn't that attractive to me. For now I'll just reload the previous turn and edit the save game to prevent this event from firing again...

We're working on this one.

You have uncovered some combinations that were neither anticipated nor encountered before in testng
Please be patient, as we will sort it out...

[Hohenlohe]

I don't think I understand how the Saxon Capitulation Event is triggered. So far I thought the Austrian player could prevent this event from firing by controlling one of the access roads to Pirna (Dresden, Radisberg or Dippoldiswalde). I also thought the latest this event could fire was late December 1756...

In my current game I managed to relieve Pirna, marching to Radisberg on the right bank of the Elbe with Browne, Lucchese and Kollowrath a(dn of course Hadik and Gaisruck). All of that to support Rutowski. I then marched part of the Austrian Army across the Elbe to Pirna. From there I advanced to Dippoldiswalde and only withdrew my rearguard from Radisberg and then Pirna once I was firmly in control of the pass back into Bohemia. By the first snow and blizzard may Army was withdrawn into the pass and was ejected from the mountains to the south. By late December I had withdrawn the entire force (Browne, Lucchese, Kollowrath and Rutowski) to the outskirts of Prag. I was still listed as in control of Dippoldiswalde though I no longer had a force there (I was relying on General Winter). So I was a bit shocked that with the early January 1757 turn the Saxons surrendered and I once again had a leaderless Saxon Army (in almost mint state) under my command (in the meantime the Prussians had relaid siege to Pirna in which I'd only left a skeleton garrison (garrison, supply and a single battery)...

Obviously I was only able to pull all the above off because the ai found it more attractive to try and attack Prag by slipping around my left, rather than assure the Saxon Army was destroyed or Browne be given a mauling. Of course they failed as Picolomini was able to defend that city (with the aid of the Saxon guard and Grenadiers which I'd evacuated by boat from Pirna)...

P.S.: Getting a bit frustrated by this event. I'd be happy if I could only save the Saxon Guard, Grenadiers and some cavalry with the leaders to command them. Ruttowski would be an added bonus, but not necessary. And the Saxon Line isn't that attractive to me. For now I'll just reload the previous turn and edit the save game to prevent this event from firing again...

Dear caranorn, your kind of operations are very interesting as I tried something similar in a testgame with the Austrians/Saxons but with the same result that the Saxon Surrender event fired and all seems over with the Saxon Army.

greetings

Hohenlohe

[caranorn]

Has any work continued on this event (other than allowing Saxon units to stay in play if they withdrew out of Saxony)? In my new PBEM against Longhairedlout he didn't even have the opportunity to reach my advanced position at Lobositz (not sure he planned to do that, but if he had he'd have taken unnecessary risk) before the Saxon Army capitulated at Pirna. That is, the capitulation occured in the early October turn...

Historically, the Austrians had time to muster two relief attempts, the first leading to the battle of Lobositz, the second in the failed withdrawal from Pirna. Right now the Saxon Army is almost always doomed, so why should the Austrian player even bother to try and relieve Pirna?

[lodilefty]

Has any work continued on this event (other than allowing Saxon units to stay in play if they withdrew out of Saxony)? In my new PBEM against Longhairedlout he didn't even have the opportunity to reach my advanced position at Lobositz (not sure he planned to do that, but if he had he'd have taken unnecessary risk) before the Saxon Army capitulated at Pirna. That is, the capitulation occured in the early October turn...

Historically, the Austrians had time to muster two relief attempts, the first leading to the battle of Lobositz, the second in the failed withdrawal from Pirna. Right now the Saxon Army is almost always doomed, so why should the Austrian player even bother to try and relieve Pirna?

In patch 1.02, any Saxons [and Rutowski] that are outside Saxony when Capitulation occurs will live to fight on

So far in my play-time, I've managed to esacape routinely with the Cavalry [running away] and once with the Guards Brigade [boarding onto Bateaux.]

Use the "Theaters" filter to see the extent of "Saxony"

[caranorn]

In patch 1.02, any Saxons [and Rutowski] that are outside Saxony when Capitulation occurs will live to fight on

So far in my play-time, I've managed to esacape routinely with the Cavalry [running away] and once with the Guards Brigade [boarding onto Bateaux.]

Use the "Theaters" filter to see the extent of "Saxony"

Lodi, I know all of that. Maybe delaying the event by just a turn or two might make the early game more attractive. In this game my opponent never even got the Saxon Army to activate before it capitulated...

In games against the ai I always try to evacuate the Saxon guard and grenadiers by boat too, though maybe now that grenadiers use elite replacements that won't be as attractive as it used to...

[Ebbingford]

The conditions for this event firing still need to be looked at I think, it's not working as it says it should.

As it reads at the moment it will fire if Prussia controls the three surrounding regions with roads. Playing as Austria I advanced to and took control of Radeberg in turn 2 so that at the start of turn 3 it was 100% Saxon controlled. Left a unit there thinking to maintain control which I have, I am now on turn 4 but the event fired at the end of turn 3 processing. I still control Radeberg.

[lodilefty]

The conditions for this event firing still need to be looked at I think, it's not working as it says it should.

As it reads at the moment it will fire if Prussia controls the three surrounding regions with roads. Playing as Austria I advanced to and took control of Radeberg in turn 2 so that at the start of turn 3 it was 100% Saxon controlled. Left a unit there thinking to maintain control which I have, I am now on turn 4 but the event fired at the end of turn 3 processing. I still control Radeberg.

Once the control is established for 1 turn, the "trigger" event fires.
This then activates the actual Capitulation event starting the next turn, which fires with some probability [might take a turn or two].

Also, the Prussian AI has a 'helper' that checks for a minimum number of SAX forces in Saxony. Once that drops below threshhold, the same "Capitulation" event is active. This is in there for two reasons: Athena doesn't really care about the 3 roads, and if the AUS player can get the troops to escape Pirna, then leave Saxony, it mimics a loss of Saxon morale and thus Capitulation.

It might be possible to check every turn to see if control is maintained, thus "switch off and reset" the region control requirement, but I would recommend that this 'reset' cycling be limited to games with a human PRU, as it could get 'gamey' vs. Athena....

[teufel0331]

The conditions for this event firing still need to be looked at I think, it's not working as it says it should.

As it reads at the moment it will fire if Prussia controls the three surrounding regions with roads. Playing as Austria I advanced to and took control of Radeberg in turn 2 so that at the start of turn 3 it was 100% Saxon controlled. Left a unit there thinking to maintain control which I have, I am now on turn 4 but the event fired at the end of turn 3 processing. I still control Radeberg.

i managed the same thing -- we routed Fred back across the elbe and then saxony capitulated?

[Schattensand]

Playing Prussia I never will allow the Pirna garrison to surrender.
Rearrange the army, send all ( I mean really all possible units ) to Pirna in the first turn. Rearrange them in the second turn, specially the heavy kavallery from far away. Then all out assault and the Pirna army is history. From your 80000 men 10000 casulties, but 25000 saxons gone. Almost all korps leaders get promoted, lots of brigadiers as well, many troops and leaders have the first stars, once the great king himself got a 6/5/5 rating, but mosttimes it is a 6/4/4. You get 5 units supply and 3 units Arty.
(If you attack at turn 3 the own losses are bigger and the 3 Arty you will not get, but the leaders accumulate more stars).
If the weather god is on your side your whole army is at turn 3 at day 13 in Prag, if all goes well the Boehemian army trappt in town to get massacered 3 turns later. Sure I know the weather may be a problem.... and...
Anyway that is the way I start.