Germany just formed, after I took Alsace from the French in 1870. Though both Alsace and Lorraine are listed as objectives for Germany, the only territory I can ask for in a peace treaty is Alsace.
I think this is a bug, because the patch notes to 1.02 said you could now demand objectives in a peace treaty.
Well, not in this case.
Does anyone know of a fix?
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loki100
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2 possible solutions.
1) must say I've not seen this, but I've seen some statements to the effect that your as your warscore goes higher then more claimable objectives appear;
2) sounds odd as the two provinces should be a package for this particular event/transfer. I'd be tempted to impose the desired change by a script if you feel you have won a decisive enough victory to justify the transfer.
1) must say I've not seen this, but I've seen some statements to the effect that your as your warscore goes higher then more claimable objectives appear;
2) sounds odd as the two provinces should be a package for this particular event/transfer. I'd be tempted to impose the desired change by a script if you feel you have won a decisive enough victory to justify the transfer.
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Sir Garnet
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Objectives won't appear for the victor until your warscore is higher than what you need to ask it. This is inconsistent to colonies or other requests, where if you ask something more you simply lose the clickable OK button. I am not sure if this was a design consideration or anything.
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loki100 wrote:2 possible solutions.
1) must say I've not seen this, but I've seen some statements to the effect that your as your warscore goes higher then more claimable objectives appear;
2) sounds odd as the two provinces should be a package for this particular event/transfer. I'd be tempted to impose the desired change by a script if you feel you have won a decisive enough victory to justify the transfer.
Loki, from what Kensai said below it looks like your first solution will work.
Kensai wrote:Objectives won't appear for the victor until your warscore is higher than what you need to ask it. This is inconsistent to colonies or other requests, where if you ask something more you simply lose the clickable OK button. I am not sure if this was a design consideration or anything.
Kensai, this information is invaluable! It should be documented. My warscore is currently too low to demand Alsace, so I am thinking that Lorraine will show up once my warscore will get there.
We should investigate if this happens the other way too, ie if these regions appear for the defeated* to be offered.
*Note that the game engine simply considers victor or defeated by the warscore difference between them.
*Note that the game engine simply considers victor or defeated by the warscore difference between them.
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:
Großdeutschland Mod
Are you tough enough to impersonate the Shogun and defy the Westerners? Prove it:
Shogun Defiance Mod (completed AAR)
Großdeutschland Mod
Are you tough enough to impersonate the Shogun and defy the Westerners? Prove it:
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Jorgitogrande
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No, no, no...
Lorraine is not "German" enough to be claimed. In standard setting of claims (in options) you can only ask for provinces with some of your national population or loyalty. Alsace is 15% German, 85% French if I remember.
Solution: Enable extended claims, occupy France, wait about 2 years (yes, very silly) until your score hits 500 (2*250) and there you are. Or change max province cost in one of the files ("game logic" I think) to let's say 100, wait until you get to 200, claim and change everything back as it was.
It gets worst for provinces not adjacent to your own provinces - try getting something from China - Shanghai if I remember correctly. You simply can't. Maybe there's an event for this but otherwise if you want to occupy that province you end up in a permanent state of war with someone. The good news - war weariness is a joke actually - I saw Austria at war with Switzerland for 40 years now with contentment 0 (nil) and only having a small revolt once a year.
Good game but with lots of bugs. Shame the experiment with Paradox didn't work out...
Lorraine is not "German" enough to be claimed. In standard setting of claims (in options) you can only ask for provinces with some of your national population or loyalty. Alsace is 15% German, 85% French if I remember.
Solution: Enable extended claims, occupy France, wait about 2 years (yes, very silly) until your score hits 500 (2*250) and there you are. Or change max province cost in one of the files ("game logic" I think) to let's say 100, wait until you get to 200, claim and change everything back as it was.
It gets worst for provinces not adjacent to your own provinces - try getting something from China - Shanghai if I remember correctly. You simply can't. Maybe there's an event for this but otherwise if you want to occupy that province you end up in a permanent state of war with someone. The good news - war weariness is a joke actually - I saw Austria at war with Switzerland for 40 years now with contentment 0 (nil) and only having a small revolt once a year.
Good game but with lots of bugs. Shame the experiment with Paradox didn't work out...
I waited until my warscore was near 350, (Alsace was 250) but Lorraine never showed as a territory I could take in a peace treaty. I had most of France, and the war was really boring at this point. I accepted the French offer of Alsace, Guyane, and an indemnity.
It seems like Jorgitogrande was correct about this issue, and it needs fixing. You should be able to claim objectives in a peace treaty.
It seems like Jorgitogrande was correct about this issue, and it needs fixing. You should be able to claim objectives in a peace treaty.
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loki100
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done a quick look and the province data is about location etc, so not sure where the base population data is, or if it is moddable (maybe in the .exe?).
a script along these lines would work:
SelectFaction = $GER
SelectRegion = $Lorraine
ChangeLoyaltyFac = 10
that will give you minimal loyalty, may need to play around with the value to see which value actually triggers the option though.
I think there is a wider problem. Up for correction on this, but my understanding is that the Alsace dialect has strong German elements, Lorraine though doesn't. So there are two bits of game logic working at odds here. Alsace, like say Alto-Adige, is a mixed region where various powers could invent teneous linguistic/ethnic claims. Lorraine is more conventionally French.
Germany grabbed the pair for military reasons, and to some extent the industrial potential.
So if the game logic is 'can't take without a (fantasy in some cases) claim' its right that Lorraine is not claimable. Except of course that in 1871 Germany did take it.
I'd use the script option for now, but it seems the problem is rooted in one of the mechanisms that prevents large scale expansion of any power within Europe?
a script along these lines would work:
SelectFaction = $GER
SelectRegion = $Lorraine
ChangeLoyaltyFac = 10
that will give you minimal loyalty, may need to play around with the value to see which value actually triggers the option though.
I think there is a wider problem. Up for correction on this, but my understanding is that the Alsace dialect has strong German elements, Lorraine though doesn't. So there are two bits of game logic working at odds here. Alsace, like say Alto-Adige, is a mixed region where various powers could invent teneous linguistic/ethnic claims. Lorraine is more conventionally French.
Germany grabbed the pair for military reasons, and to some extent the industrial potential.
So if the game logic is 'can't take without a (fantasy in some cases) claim' its right that Lorraine is not claimable. Except of course that in 1871 Germany did take it.
I'd use the script option for now, but it seems the problem is rooted in one of the mechanisms that prevents large scale expansion of any power within Europe?
AJE The Hero, The Traitor and The Barbarian
PoN Manufacturing Italy; A clear bright sun
RoP The Mightiest Empires Fall
WIA Burning down the Houses; Wars in America; The Tea Wars
PoN Manufacturing Italy; A clear bright sun
RoP The Mightiest Empires Fall
WIA Burning down the Houses; Wars in America; The Tea Wars
loki100 wrote:done a quick look and the province data is about location etc, so not sure where the base population data is, or if it is moddable (maybe in the .exe?).
a script along these lines would work:
SelectFaction = $GER
SelectRegion = $Lorraine
ChangeLoyaltyFac = 10
that will give you minimal loyalty, may need to play around with the value to see which value actually triggers the option though.
I think there is a wider problem. Up for correction on this, but my understanding is that the Alsace dialect has strong German elements, Lorraine though doesn't. So there are two bits of game logic working at odds here. Alsace, like say Alto-Adige, is a mixed region where various powers could invent teneous linguistic/ethnic claims. Lorraine is more conventionally French.
Germany grabbed the pair for military reasons, and to some extent the industrial potential.
So if the game logic is 'can't take without a (fantasy in some cases) claim' its right that Lorraine is not claimable. Except of course that in 1871 Germany did take it.
I'd use the script option for now, but it seems the problem is rooted in one of the mechanisms that prevents large scale expansion of any power within Europe?
Thank you for the script, Loki. The patch notes to 1.02 stated that objectives could be claimed in a peace treaty. Since Lorraine was a German objective at the time, I should have been able to claim it, but the mechanism is not working, most likely for the reasons you mentioned. The Devs should fix this, as it was theoretically fixed earlier.
I believe you are right about the ethnic make up of Alsace and Lorraine. I recall reading that, in additional to military and industrial reasons, Bismark insisted that Lorraine go to Germany as yet another way of humiliating the French, and showing the world who the real power in Europe now was. According to this writer, Bismark wanted the French to remain enemies of Germany, while he embraced the Russians, Austrians, and Italians as friends, leaving France isolated on the continent. It remained a huge issue in France to have Frenchmen living under German rule. Interesting fellow, Bismark.
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Jorgitogrande
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vaalen wrote:Thank you for the script, Loki. The patch notes to 1.02 stated that objectives could be claimed in a peace treaty. Since Lorraine was a German objective at the time, I should have been able to claim it, but the mechanism is not working, most likely for the reasons you mentioned. The Devs should fix this, as it was theoretically fixed earlier.
I believe you are right about the ethnic make up of Alsace and Lorraine. I recall reading that, in additional to military and industrial reasons, Bismark insisted that Lorraine go to Germany as yet another way of humiliating the French, and showing the world who the real power in Europe now was. According to this writer, Bismark wanted the French to remain enemies of Germany, while he embraced the Russians, Austrians, and Italians as friends, leaving France isolated on the continent. It remained a huge issue in France to have Frenchmen living under German rule. Interesting fellow, Bismark.
That's interesting because from what I remember from Wiki Bismarck never wanted Lorraine because he knew that would make French always have casus beli. But it was the Kaiser and the generals who wanted "spoils of war" - after 1866 war Prussia didn't get anything. Also the new provinces came under imperial administration as opposed to state (Bavarian or Prussian) allowing the army to turn it into fortification zone without anyone's objections.
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