vaalen
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Some bugs for fixing

Tue May 29, 2012 5:13 pm

It is great news that there will be a new patch!

Here are a few bugs I have noticed -

1. Playing as Great Britain, I got an event about a miners revolt in Australia. The event gave two choices. I made the choice to help the minors. The event was still there next turn, and the next, and the next. Each time, I make the same choice, and the event comes up again the next turn, with no apparent effect. It has been more than twenty consecutive turns with this same event, and my choice seems to have no effect.

2. In the same game, I had the sepoy mutiny. Midway through the rebellion, I lost the ability to replace losses for Indian cavalry units. I could still replace infantry, light infantry, and everything else, but not cavalry, not even when I had them in passive posture inside a level four depot. I had been able to replace them during all of the game prior to several months into the mutiny.

3. Marines have a special ability that is supposed to give them a zero penalty when they launch an amphibious attack. After using marine only forces in several amphibious attacks, I can confirm that this ability does not work. Marines suffer the full penalty, and this is shown both on the detailed battle report and in the very heavy casualties they take.

4. The sepoy mutiny creates the nation of Mughalistan, centered on Delhi and Meerut. After destroying all their forces, and conquering all their territories, I am still getting peace offers from them regularly. They have no troops, no territory, and no money, and they offer nothing but peace. If I accept, I will no doubt lose Delhi and Meerut. If I do not accept, I may remain endlessly at war with them, losing a morale point every turn, though I cannot confirm this until my morale is reduced to 100(it went up to 198 when I captured Delhi.)

5. This may be WAD, but I would like confirmation. After the Mutiny was put down, I noticed a huge rise in the number of conscripts I was getting, and the limit seemed to more than double. I did change Rajputana from a protectorate to a colony, and am wondering if that was the cause.

I did have a great war in putting down the mutiny, lasting one and one half years, during which I suffered a number of defeats. None of these bugs break the game, but they are annoying and detract a bit from the enjoyment.

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Kensai
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Tue May 29, 2012 9:37 pm

In our MP we had to end the mutiny manually after we reached the same stage as you did. More info in the multiplayer section of the Paradox forums. Technically, you need to delete the conditions for the event to fire (if you can't reach them). Are you sure you've defeated them to less than 10 units (Generals count as units) while holding Delhi? (iirc these were the conditions)

Sometimes Mughali forces escape to nearby regions (Afghanistan, Nepal, etc)
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vaalen
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Tue May 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Kensai, I am certain I have killed every one of their units and leaders. A small force escaped to Kashmir, but I followed them and killed them. It started a war with Kashmir, but was worth it. I will take a look at the multiplayer forum. I think it is terrific what you guys are doing. Wish I had the time to have joined earlier, but my schedule did not allow the commitment. And I have had Delhi garrisoned for several turns, both inside and outside the city.

vaalen
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Tue May 29, 2012 10:21 pm

Kensai, I looked at the MP section of the Paradox forums,but could not find a thread that addresses this issue. Do you have a link?

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Jim-NC
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:49 am

Another possible issue/bug:

In our MP game, it appears that playing a "stake" card doesn't seem to cause a crisis (or there may be rules we don't understand about their usage). Britain played a stake card 3 times in a row to stop Sardinia Piedmont from making a protectorate in Mogidishu. The 1st and 2nd time, nothing appeared to happen. Then on the 3rd try, with 1 turn left before the protectorate, the card was canceled and now S-P can't play again. This may be due to the fact that the territory now shows as British influenced (they are both at 35% CP).
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Sir Garnet
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:11 am

Also in MP, my forces are unable to be ordered into foreign territory when passage and supply rights are in place. I thought it might relate to an existing AGEOD forum thread so put details there.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?24263-Unlocking-Armies

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Le Ricain
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:27 am

Regarding the mutiny, if you have destroyed the Sepoy land forces in India and control Delhi and Meerut, you can safely accept the Mughal peace request. Some players report that Delhi and meerut revert to Mughal control for a few turns until an event turns them into colonies. In my case, when I accepted the peace request, both of the provinces became colonies instantly.
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vaalen
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:35 am

Le Ricain wrote:Regarding the mutiny, if you have destroyed the Sepoy land forces in India and control Delhi and Meerut, you can safely accept the Mughal peace request. Some players report that Delhi and meerut revert to Mughal control for a few turns until an event turns them into colonies. In my case, when I accepted the peace request, both of the provinces became colonies instantly.


I had the same experience. I accepted the peace offer and the war stopped. Delhi and Meerut became colonies.

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Kensai
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:06 am

Most of my bug fix requests probably go beyond the "warranty" as we play a 24-nation Multiplayer. So consider them "low priority" unless they influence major nations as well.

  • Yemen's Eastern colonial region belongs erroneously to Oman.
  • There is a problem with Niger's colonial capital. Seems misplaced.
  • In our MP we've changed Persia and Parana to be trade areas so the respective nations can trade. Paraguay has access through a huge river (historically accurate) and Persia is facing the Persian Gulf, it is not even landlocked!
  • Garibaldi chain of events seems broken. Also, I am not quite sure if the AI command for interest on some regions works properly. Garibaldi didn't make any attempt to move to Rome.
  • Some nations: Mexico, Persia, Egypt cannot build ships at all.
  • Some minor nations can see the whole map on F5, even units of other nations.
  • The upgrade chain of some units-factions (especially subfactions) is broken. Units don't upgrade or they simply do not fall into the force pool limits.
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Ebbingford
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:26 am

[quote="vaalen"]It is great news that there will be a new patch!

Here are a few bugs I have noticed -



2. In the same game, I had the sepoy mutiny. Midway through the rebellion, I lost the ability to replace losses for Indian cavalry units. I could still replace infantry, light infantry, and everything else, but not cavalry, not even when I had them in passive posture inside a level four depot. I had been able to replace them during all of the game prior to several months into the mutiny.

They have probably upgraded to GIN type cavalry, you can't then get GIN replacements, an old known issue....

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Ebbingford
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:27 am

vaalen wrote:It is great news that there will be a new patch!

Here are a few bugs I have noticed -



2. In the same game, I had the sepoy mutiny. Midway through the rebellion, I lost the ability to replace losses for Indian cavalry units. I could still replace infantry, light infantry, and everything else, but not cavalry, not even when I had them in passive posture inside a level four depot. I had been able to replace them during all of the game prior to several months into the mutiny.



They have probably upgraded to GIN type cavalry, you can't then get GIN replacements, an old known issue....

Ech Heftag
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:58 am

I'd like to throw in that some options for a peace offer doesn't seem to work at all (colonial transfer and claiming of national objectives). At least national objectives were claimable in an earlier version of PoN.

sagji
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:45 am

Reparations doesn't appear to work - no sign of them ever being paid. Also the numbers appear to be either very low if they are per year or very high if they are per turn.

US forces added for the civil war aren't disbanded at the end, and there is no reason for the US to disband them.

US civil war forces include monitors regardless of the date - so if the war starts in '59 they still get them. To actually build them you need a '60 invention and two subsequent techs - this isn't possible to research in time. Perhaps they should require "ironclad corvettes" instead of "ironclad frigates"

Some nations start with the tech "steam corvettes" and some sail corvettes in their forcepool. These will always be there as they already have the tech that upgrades them. Perhaps "ironclad corvettes" should also upgrade sail corvettes to ironclads.
American shipbuilding can be researched before '65, this upgrades the forcepool to shipyard2 - however this requires electric parts which in turn needs a 1870 tech. So you can have a ten year period when the shipyards you can build can't operate.

Indian army units convert from IND to GIN/GBR on technology, so it happens at different times for different types of units. Also once the become GIN they can't buy replacements, and the only IND replacements are useless.

It is too easy to build large armies - Historical Attrition helps but ends up being a micromanagement issue. Base maintenance needs to be doubled and HA slightly toned down - units in a depot/fort in the own country should be taking no attrition, that should be covered by maintenance.

sagji
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:56 am

The big one for multiplayer games is multi-party peace agreements. With time zones and deadlines it becomes difficult for players on one side of a war to arrange to accept a peace such that they either both accept it or both reject it. It always seams to end up with one player having accepted it and his ally not, and thus left out to dry.

Another one is that the warscore is the sole determinant of if you are winning or losing a war - and thus what you do in a peace. With a war against multiple enemies you can be winning against one and loosing against the other. They are unrelated wars so you can't offer reparations against both.

Diplomacy actions have to be accepted or rejected on the turn following their offer. This makes it problematic in MP as some times players miss a turn. It also makes it impossible to speed thing up by running two turns one after the other. If you changed it so that you got two turns to accept the request it would also help the multi-party peace issue as there would be more time to discuss things.

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Kensai
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:29 pm

  • Tooltip is missing from closed nations in F1.
  • Messages regarding colonial actions should come at the moment they are played, not in the end. We have no use of knowing the "assertion" of a colonial territory once it is already done. This is critical to play stakes in time!
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Kensai
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Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:49 am

sagji wrote:Reparations doesn't appear to work - no sign of them ever being paid. Also the numbers appear to be either very low if they are per year or very high if they are per turn.

This might be because we had a scripted reinstate of hostilities that probably overwrote all previous arrangements. In this case, it was WAD.
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Pocus
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Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:04 pm

I heard that there are several issues about 'regional loyalty'. I can try fixing them, but for each of these issues, I need a saved game, perhaps a backup if the problem arises in inter-turn, and then a context. You can reach me at phmalacher@ageod.net
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Kensai
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Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:57 pm

  • Can you see if the F1 faction attributes work as intended? If they are strong enough (for example a closed economy and closed country should have huge penalties to interact with anyone) so to make nation characteristics more salient?
  • Could you elaborate on the small cases of faction attribute override? Are they working? Can actions for example change technology rate or influence projection?
  • Regarding loyalty, just fix the bogus crazy ones that appear and we will be mostly happy. Normal loyalty should change extremely slowly over time. An occupation power should literally sit for years before seeing any serious change.
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Pocus
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Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:22 am

I would like to trace the origin of the weird ones, with a before/after saved game. Perhaps that's just coming from scripts so the code can't fix that.

Attributes are definitively working. To alter/balance their effect would need a detailed ongoing discussion with pros and cons...That's too short for the next patch, it's a patch, we mostly want to fix the bugs and blatant inbalance... example given, confer with your comrades and propose us a list of changes to slow down the colonial games.

Attribute override only appears with rulers I think right now, but I can check... Again, the aim of the patch is more focused than rechecking if we add up more overrides because of a specific behavior of the player. Bug fixing first, it seems there are still some lingering.
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Sir Garnet
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Semi-Locked Units Workaround

Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:30 am

PROBLEM: In MP Brazil Brazilian units in peacetime are unable to take advantage of mutual supply and passage rights with other countries. Just get a bounce when trying an order with the message up top center

"The region cannot be entered (impossible terrain, frozen weather, neutral terrain, blocked by a fort, wrong water type, surrounded ...)"

However, once at war with someone, passage works and supply appears to be working. I don't know yet if the problem resumes if the nation is at peace again. If so, the workaround is going to war with an American Indian or other tribe to keep the treaties working.

This would appear to be a pathfinder issue relating to the peace-locks on minor country units for which there was a partial fix provided.

Thanks

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Kensai
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Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:46 am

Pocus wrote:Attribute override only appears with rulers I think right now, but I can check...

What do you mean by this? Aren't the rulers setting the faction attributes anyway? How's the override working overriding their own settings?! :blink:

On all the rest, agreed Pocus, foremost importance is stability. Features should come later. We will provide you with as many saves as possible. Make sure we don't reach our file upload quotas! :p
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Sir Garnet
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Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:46 pm

REQUEST to save a great deal of time:

The estimated results this coming turn are nice but often wishful thinking. It can be important to know how many actual purchases and sales occurred in the last trading round. Can we have a Bought and Sold number on the tooltip for each item on the Industry and Commerce line 3? This is valuable for deciding how much to buy and sell and setting those percentages.

This would be the one addition request that would save the biggest busywork of the game for me - scrolling through the tiny print of the log over and over. I understand there are external scripts that could generate detailed reports, but really I just want to know how many of several commodities sold or were bought to help evaluate what to do along with the Asset Summary.

Please consider this small tooltip change.

FPW DLC problem- zero income, zero goods of course since no economy, but funds and goods are required for upkeep so troops suffer for the lack. This does not seem right.

Thanks,

Sir Garnet

sagji
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Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:39 pm

Sir Garnet wrote:REQUEST to save a great deal of time:

The estimated results this coming turn are nice but often wishful thinking. It can be important to know how many actual purchases and sales occurred in the last trading round. Can we have a Bought and Sold number on the tooltip for each item on the Industry and Commerce line 3? This is valuable for deciding how much to buy and sell and setting those percentages.

This would be the one addition request that would save the biggest busywork of the game for me - scrolling through the tiny print of the log over and over. I understand there are external scripts that could generate detailed reports, but really I just want to know how many of several commodities sold or were bought to help evaluate what to do along with the Asset Summary.

Please consider this small tooltip change.

FPW DLC problem- zero income, zero goods of course since no economy, but funds and goods are required for upkeep so troops suffer for the lack. This does not seem right.

Thanks,

Sir Garnet


The projected numbers aren't even wishful thinking. You can set the % of goods you think you will sell and the % you think you will buy, but you can only do this for all goods so you can't use it to balance individual goods. Plus there is no way to get any values to base it on.
The whole % settings need to be replaced with some radio buttons.
a) Ideal - all sales and purchases work - current system.
b) Best case - you sell the higher of you offer and total demand, and buy the lower of total offers and your demand.
c) Historic - you buy and sell the same as last time.
d) Competitive - you sell/buy as a proportion of your offer/demand as part of the total.
e) Worst case - you sell the lower of your offer and total demand minus others' offers, and buy the lower of your demand and total offers minus others' demand.
In all cases if you are selling when there is excess demand, or buying when there is excess supply you buy / sell the full amount.

The buy sell tooltip in F4 needs to say how much you bough and sold last turn, how much you are offering to buy and sell this turn, and the current expected amount bought and sold. Currently it gives no numbers at all.

sagji
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Crisis issues

Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:05 pm

At the moment in multi player games a crisis never lasts more than one round.
This is because mobilisation can win the crisis in the first round, and is also the only card that can prevent it winning. If the initiator you have a chance to win with mobilisation and the other side's card isn't even played. In our last three crisis the results were:
1) Initiator played mobilisation and won .
2) Both sides played mobilisation and second side lost control - initiator won.
3) Initiator played ultimatum and second side played mobilisation and won.

It is very hard to tell which nation is the initiator and which is the other side. This is especially problematic when plotting cards as everything is defined in terms of the initiator. Does +1 just cause mean I have it or not?

The result text is often inconsistent - in the latest one it starts "Piedmont got the upper hand" but ends "Prestige gain for Britain 2231. Prestige gain for Piedmont 223."

If you play mobilisation or ultimatum and loose control a war should start - however if you have a peace treaty it doesn't. However you allies are still called in. Either loosing control should start the war regardless of the treaty or these cards should not be available.

Bad relations can trigger a crisis, this means that a war usually leads to a crisis shortly afterwards - bad relations should not trigger a crisis if a peace is in place. It really needs to be longer as it takes several years for relations to settle.

Part of the penalty of playing the mobilisation card is the penalty of having some troops mobilised, but if you are at war and have already fully mobilised this isn't a penalty. In my case it wasn't a limitation as this was the third crisis while I was at war.

There are powerful cards to win the crisis there are none to loose the crisis - in multi player you may want to loose the crisis (or at least loose the stake) as a result of agreements. Alternatively you may just not be interested in the stake - such as a colony you just wanted a tradepost in.

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bjfagan
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Technology/Research (F7) Screen

Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:35 pm

I would like to suggest updating the information for each technology on the F7 screen. I know it might require some tedious combing through the code, but right now the descriptions of each tech to be researched are vague and a player is not quite sure what he will get when the tech reaches 100%. Most just say you will get a new structure or unit, but it would definitely be nice to know which structure and which unit the player will actually receive. Some will be obvious such as steam powered sawmill, I can assume I will get the Level 2 Lumber structure. However, many others have descriptions that are impossible to determine what structure/unit they apply to.

So, hopefully these can be updated with a text line that better states what will be available for building, such as, stating that a player will get the new Level 1 oil drilling structure or upgrade to the Level 2 lumber mill etc., and the same for units.

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Jim-NC
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Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:50 am

sagji wrote:At the moment in multi player games a crisis never lasts more than one round.
This is because mobilisation can win the crisis in the first round, and is also the only card that can prevent it winning. If the initiator you have a chance to win with mobilisation and the other side's card isn't even played. In our last three crisis the results were:
1) Initiator played mobilisation and won .
2) Both sides played mobilisation and second side lost control - initiator won.
3) Initiator played ultimatum and second side played mobilisation and won.

It is very hard to tell which nation is the initiator and which is the other side. This is especially problematic when plotting cards as everything is defined in terms of the initiator. Does +1 just cause mean I have it or not?

The result text is often inconsistent - in the latest one it starts "Piedmont got the upper hand" but ends "Prestige gain for Britain 2231. Prestige gain for Piedmont 223."

If you play mobilisation or ultimatum and loose control a war should start - however if you have a peace treaty it doesn't. However you allies are still called in. Either loosing control should start the war regardless of the treaty or these cards should not be available.

Bad relations can trigger a crisis, this means that a war usually leads to a crisis shortly afterwards - bad relations should not trigger a crisis if a peace is in place. It really needs to be longer as it takes several years for relations to settle.

Part of the penalty of playing the mobilisation card is the penalty of having some troops mobilised, but if you are at war and have already fully mobilised this isn't a penalty. In my case it wasn't a limitation as this was the third crisis while I was at war.

There are powerful cards to win the crisis there are none to loose the crisis - in multi player you may want to loose the crisis (or at least loose the stake) as a result of agreements. Alternatively you may just not be interested in the stake - such as a colony you just wanted a tradepost in.


I agree, the red cards are too powerful to not play (assuming you want to win). So all crises are over in 1 turn.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Sir Garnet
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Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:05 am

sagji wrote:The projected numbers aren't even wishful thinking. You can set the % of goods you think you will sell and the % you think you will buy, but you can only do this for all goods so you can't use it to balance individual goods.


Can you please remind me how to do that? I had not bothered for a long time, but it would be more useful than 100% right now.

Thanks

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Kensai
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Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:01 am

Another minor request to amend:

  • Shouldn't sugar and tropical fruits be converted to conserved foods as well?


I mean, sugar is used in the quintessential conserved foodstuff, marmelades! Shouldn't we have pineapple jams?! :p
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Pocus
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Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:05 pm

Many things (most?) discussed here are from the realm of improvements... not to say they are not needed improvements, but this can go only second compared to glaring bugs, say Chinese loyalty in the US because of the ACW (still tracking this one btw).

So, dutifully noted, and I think at least crisis tweaks are in order, but do you get bugs as in 'if I do that, I get a crash reliably' or something not working at all, etc. ? The plan is to deliver a patch by end of month hopefully.
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Jim-NC
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Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:21 pm

There was mention of wool from tradeposts not adding to the cotton/wool numbers in the home country (apparently wool is it's own commodity).
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