Dreadnoughts in 1865

[sorta]

Hello, in the PBEM game I am currently playing we have the above. Has anyone else seen this?

Assuming that this is a bug not a stroke of technological genius? Also protected cruisers?

[DavoM]

I've been playing an 1850GC and it's almost 1881 and not one nation has a dreadnought nor protected cruiser. Ironclads came in at about 1863 and the latest naval tech is steel battleships, torpedo boats and light cruisers for a few of the majors (GBR, FRA, GER, etc.) just in the last five years (1875-). Has to be either a bug or some serious money thrown into naval research!

[loki100]

its a bug. For some reason if you have an element in a naval destroyed, sometimes when you take on a replacement you get something technologically advanced - hence the dreadnought etc.

you can solve either by an event - delete and then replace the offending naval unit so all its elements are the right type or by amending the save game file (prob the easiest) to change the element to the right type.

[sorta]

Many thanks loki.

Looking at the tech tree the minimum available date in the tech notes means that the tech can't be available. Also the rules state that this isn't a tech game as new tech was picked up by others in a few years.

[sorta]

Many thanks loki.

Looking at the tech tree the minimum available date in the tech notes means that the tech can't be available. Also the rules state that this isn't a tech game as new tech was picked up by others in a few years.

[MickM2]

Is there any chance of a patch for this issue as it is very labour intensive having contantly fix each ship anytime it upgrades incorrectly? And Dreadnoughts opposing wooden sail ships for major powers is just wrong.

[loki100]

Is there any chance of a patch for this issue as it is very labour intensive having contantly fix each ship anytime it upgrades incorrectly? And Dreadnoughts opposing wooden sail ships for major powers is just wrong.

Unfortunately not.

The last patch was done in free time by all who contributed so for good or ill that is the last update of the .exe. This problem/bug lurks in the .exe so its not solvable by event or script modding.

I can sympathise fully with the frustration but its best to be realistic about what can/can't be done.

Best solution to this is to group the offending naval units in a sea province on their own. Write an event to kill them and another to replace them. Once you have the basic syntax save it and its then a case of modifying target/rebuild to suit your situation.

[MickM2]

I think this needs reconsideration as the game description and appeal is that it is realistic historical play and having Dreadnoughts appearing in 1865 is not realistic. I bought the game to enjoy the limited parameters which differentiate it from other unrealistic historical games like when a Prussian civilization can manipulate the tech tree to acquire panzers when his main rivals still have spears. This is a major flaw in the game. I appreciate the last patch was done in freetime but the game isn't currently being sold to customers for free.

[sorta]

Is this bug widespread or have we just got unlucky with our game? I ask as we have another large PBEM game just started.

We are lucky enough to have someone with a tech background but still the fix hasn't worked.

[loki100]

as far as I've seen it comes and goes. Most often a naval unit will replace a lost element exactly as you'd expect. Then you get an instance like this with steel+ battleships being added to a sail unit.

Its been reported within the game since the early patches which indicates its not an easy bug to track down and resolve.

Another oddity is I don't think it has ever effected the AI side - at least I have never seen an AI naval unit with this sort of combination.

my solution was to write a generic event. This killed any naval units in a given region and then replaced them with what I wanted - and deducted cash etc from the stockplies. I'd then put any problematic units to sea, rework the event around them and run it.

Now I'd happily make that event freely available but in the course of my last major computer shift I managed to lose all my PoN non-game files, incl all the events I'd put together, AAR notes etc.

With the AGE-wiki no longer useable, I'd suggest finding one of the many in-game 'kill unit' events and one that spawns new units - there are quite a few of these. That'll give you the syntax at least.

[Pocus]

Now I'd happily make that event freely available but in the course of my last major computer shift I managed to lose all my PoN non-game files, incl all the events I'd put together, AAR notes etc.

Sorry to read that, you had a lot of very good materials!

[sorta]

Do you know where I can find the 'kill' script. Had a look in mods and did a search. Is it easy to use?

[loki100]

go into the events files. I think you'll find one in the Italian unification chain (used to eliminate the Neapolitan units), also it has an eg of a creation event (used to spawn Garibaldi).

There are other egs scattered around, I think the Balkans event file has a lot of egs both of kill and create scripts.

What I did was to add an event file - I called it 'Roger_scripts' - to the scenario file and then I put all these one off/game management scripts into that.

They usually were designed to work once so they have no ongoing effect. If you need to run them again, simply change the name and it will fire again.

I found this neater than adding such scripts to the main event files - always a risk you forgot about it and it affected a newly started game.

as above - can't be any more helpful as I've lost all this resource and don't have a set-up copy of the game to hand.

[MickM2]

Loki100 does this fix take into account the experience level of the killed unit?

[loki100]

no, you'll get a no experience replacement. You could work on this but it would complicate the event/script for relatively little gain?

[sorta]

Hi Lokki,

Thanks for your help but all our attempted fixes have failed, even with a tech player included, so we are closing the game.

It is disappointing that AGEOD still lets the game be sold with such a fundamental bug. There should at least have been a warning before we all purchased it that the bug existed and is unsolvable.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gentlemen,
It is with regret I announce the closure of the Phoenix game.

The arbeiter has spoken. The naval bug appears cannot be corrected (with any degree of certainty)

Unfortunately bugs are something your game executive cannot control (though we often do try to navigate through them).

I would like to thank all players for their prompt return on ords turnarounds and their generally civil exchanges with each other.

I particular want to thank Angus for being the arbeiter (never an easy job) and Maurice for his huge efforts trying to fix the issue (this takes a lot of time).

Shame we couldn’t play to the end but it is doubtful we could ever remove the bug.