Fighting in the Colonies

[jscott991]

I'm missing something about fighting in the colonies, particularly Viet Nam.

As France, I declared a protectorate over Hanoi and Tonkin troops starting fighting me. They retreated to Langson and sat there for a while (and I had to deal with a buggy unit that couldn't be fought and couldn't retreat, but that's another thread).

It's a stack with a total combat value of 232. They have artillery (8 guns I think) but no firearms.

I attacked it with a colonial infantry brigade, an infantry brigade, a light cavalry brigade, and some native units under a 1 star general (so not much help). The total stack combat value was over 500, but lost tons of cohesion on its way.

It was slaughtered. I barely made it out alive fighting this unarmed rabble.

So I built a ton more units. Thinking that cohesion was the problem (and the fact it takes 40+ days to move from Hanoi to Langson), I tried a marine attack. I hit it with 2 marine divisions and a marine brigade. Again, the battle wasn't even competitive. I was slaughtered.

Mystified, I gave up in disgust, cursing this game's unpolished state.

But Tonkin wasn't done. They attacked me in Caobang. Their stack suffered little cohesion damage as it moved from Langson and defeated two entrench colonial infantry brigades (combat value over 300). The battle was kind of close, but not that close.

I took advantage of their attack, however, to take Langon by landing, putting an entire infantry corps ashore. But I'm afraid to attack Caobang even with this massive force because Tonkin simply seems invincible in battle.

So what's happening here? How are these guys able to fight off modern French units with such ease (and without rifles of any kind)? What's the trick to fighting in Viet Nam or the colonies in general?

[loki100]

your problem is not the 'unpolished state' of the game but that it is an excellent simulation of the problems when you send regulars (pre 1900 at least) into awful terrain. They end with such low cohesion that they cannot fight effectively.

Solution - tailor your force to the problem .... I'll leave that to you to work out

Oh, and in any AGE game never do an amphibious invasion unless you have completely overwhelming force, its the easiest way to get wiped out in the game

[jscott991]

That makes sense, although the game doesn't do a good job explaining that.

Or whether you should be using colonial or expeditionary units.

Or the difference between garrison and fortress units.

Or between militia and reserve.

But at least it has a lot of units.

[vaalen]

What year did you attack them in? In the early years of the game, it is very difficult to defeat the Vietnamese in bad terrain. Part of the problem is that the terrain is so bad that they can often get to zero range, when the battle starts, where your firepower has little time to slow them down, before they cut you to pieces with their melee weapons. Think of a close range ambush in a heavy jungle, in mountains, where your attacking troops are totally worn out before the battle begins by the heat and miserable terrain. The Americans had problems with this, severe problems, in their Vietnam war, and they lost.

I will also point out that the French did not conquer Tonkin until the 1890s, when they had much better rifles and artillery, as well as expertise in moving in colonial terrain. The game does a great job of modeling this, as techs become available that enable European troops to do better in colonial terrain, so the cohesion loss due to movement is reduced.

I suffered many defeats from them when I attacked in the late fifties, as France, but I finally figured out how to defeat them. It was not easy, and there were periods of stalemate. But it was very challenging, and rewarding.

[loki100]

That makes sense, although the game doesn't do a good job explaining that.

Or whether you should be using colonial or expeditionary units.

Or the difference between garrison and fortress units.

Or between militia and reserve.

But at least it has a lot of units.

In Europe, your armies should be basically regulars, Gds, Cavalry, if you can you may as well build these as corps. Don't miss out the support units (& as a hint, some improve cohesion recovery)

Expeditionary are European units tailored for combat outside Europe, colonial are usually units raised in the colonial regions. Best is to go over the detail for each and work out their relative merits, but for the most part are interchangeable.

Not sure there is really a difference between garrison and fortress? Both are a relatively cheap way (if you have the manpower) to protect key spots

Militia are cheap units you can raise if you are manpower rich and resource poor - ie the Ottomans. They will get beat by regulars most of the time but have the advantage of numbers.
Reserve units are effectively regular units but you receive them when you play the 'mobilise' card. The number varies according to your overall size and military doctrine, so a state with a focus on a standing army receives less than one that has conscription. They stand down at the end of June or December after a war ends. Note the same units return time after time and can build expertise just like regular units.

Best way to work this out is to go over the unit pop-ups in some detail

[Pocus]

Let's not be too elitist though, it's true that the game can be frustrating because colonies are no easy piece of cakes you can gobble in one year. Vaalen provides very good feedback, sometime the time is not right and you must wait until tech and doctrines catch up. You have to understand that you can't just mop up whatever you want just by bringing regular troops, or the game would see the British taking over Afghanistan in no time or the French the Indochina peninsula. This can be frustrating yes, but this is closer to history than repainting Asia in your color in 10 years.

As for lack of informations, this is one of the weakness of this monster game, quite true.

[jscott991]

Thank you all for your help.

I agree that this is realistically modeled, once you know why it is happening.

My experience with the no cohesion phantom unit embittered me about Tonkin in general.