Does it even worth playing Prussia?

[Veghist]

Hi,

(I was advised to post it here too...)

I'm very frustrated.

I'm playing Prussia, it is the summer of 1866, Holsten war never happened though somehow a turn after Denmark annected Holsten, the 2 Hessens, Hannover and Schasen joined me. In 1855 I got so angry that I attacked Denmark. I have beaten them without major losses, all of their ground troops are gone, att territories save for Iceland are conquered fleet beaten, and my warscore is 7! When their main army surrendered, it said that I received 70 victory points. What are victory points? Warscore? if so, why doesn't it count? I hold all Denmark with 100% military presence, but in a year warscore did not improve at all. still 7.
My relation with austria is still 100%, defensive treaty and all... How will I ever go to war against Austria? If I don't how will I have war with the French?
So far the game was boring enough, I hoped that I can reunite Germany eventually.

Is there any point playing this game? Without the unification I cannot even colonize!

[HerrDan]

Hi,

(I was advised to post it here too...)

I'm very frustrated.

I'm playing Prussia, it is the summer of 1866, Holsten war never happened though somehow a turn after Denmark annected Holsten, the 2 Hessens, Hannover and Schasen joined me. In 1855 I got so angry that I attacked Denmark. I have beaten them without major losses, all of their ground troops are gone, att territories save for Iceland are conquered fleet beaten, and my warscore is 7! When their main army surrendered, it said that I received 70 victory points. What are victory points? Warscore? if so, why doesn't it count? I hold all Denmark with 100% military presence, but in a year warscore did not improve at all. still 7.
My relation with austria is still 100%, defensive treaty and all... How will I ever go to war against Austria? If I don't how will I have war with the French?
So far the game was boring enough, I hoped that I can reunite Germany eventually.

Is there any point playing this game? Without the unification I cannot even colonize!

You mean you have already got the Norddeutscher Bund in 1855 (sorry didn't understand the part you said "Hannover joined you")? You shouldn't worry about Austria that much, you should keep playing the unification cards until you got the North unified under your flag, you'll get an event that will give you (and Austria ofc) a cb, the AI will rarely use it to declare war on you, so if you want you can avoid this war, the only war you'll have to fight is the one with France, and then later you'll be very happy to know you're able to have a coronation ceremony at Versailles (that's sooo sweet :coeurs and play the colonial cards with the reich, in the 1880s you'll get a serie of events that give you some colonies around the globe...

Prussia/Germany in the 1850 start is a bit of a slow game, especially when you compare it to the 1880 campaign when you "arive just in time for the party (or maybe a little late as Willy used to complain)", but later it gets really fun.

[Veghist]

OK, but how can I get Holsten? And how will I end up at war with France? Historically the Prussian-Austrian war was needed for that, isn't it? And why can't I score more than 7 warscore from a completely beaten nation? (in colonial areas this applies too, thay have no territories but the wc is -1 to 1...

[Christophe.Barot]

there are events happening to give you duchies butv they are not supposed to happen ahead of schedule - this is intended to be an historical game and not mainly (can be played so) a "conquer the world fantasy"

in its historical mode (recommended), event can fire from 1863 on - not before - you'll have crisis, declare war on Denmark, and are supposed to win, if you try to artificially have a war with denmark before, then thre is no succession crisis (it was very complex, from contemporary statesmen opinion, and linked to constitutional and unheritance subtleties)

then

- you go to war
- you attack and occupy Skleswig AND Holstein
- you don't make peace now

and then snap , sooner ot later (rather sooner) peace happens and you get them, that simple, it's not a matter of forcing things

then you go, play loyalty actions you regullarly get systematically, privilege northern states (bavaria, baden, wurtember will come later), around 80% prussian loyalty per state, you'll get randomly a message telling you the nation is ready for unification, then concentrate on other ones

in due time, when each is ready, NGF fires (north german federation)

keep playing german unification decisions on southern german states

you may fight austria then (you'll have opportunity in 1866) if you see fit, want to reenact history, and want to train your generals (at some cost) or not, then just keep Austria as ally

then in due tilme crisis will give you opportunity to fight france - seize it, in 1870, be ready

I'm not sure Alsace-Lorraine event fires for a player when you get Paris, if not change script (has been fixed in mod improvement PON2/god thread), for an AI it fires, go crush france, occupy Paris, normally when paris falls, germany automatically unites with Alsace AND Lorraine as a bonus, do not ever accept peace before, no Alsace+ Reunin, no Lorraine + Martinique, not any of this bullshit ! warscore here does not matter, just crush the french and Hold Strasburg Metz and paris (siede may drag a lot) german unifies, bingo, you're first power in the continent, and with your productivity, demography, army, coal facilities, and literacy, you'r potential world power number one

is it worth playing Prussia, damn yes, even better than Russia or Britain !

enjoy


here's the event, cheers

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Holstein
StartEvent = evt_nam_PRU_DuchiesCaptured1863|1|2|evt_txt_PRU_DuchiesCaptured1863|Event-img_PRU_DuchiesCaptured1863|$Holstein|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1863/01/01
MaxDate = 1866/01/01

SelectFaction = $GER
EvalIsAtWarWith = DAN

EvalRgnOwned = $Schleswig

EvalRgnOwned = $Holstein
Probability = 25

Actions
DescEvent = evt_desc_PRU_DuchiesReformCrisis1866

SelectRegion = $Schleswig
ChangeRgnOwner = DAN
ChangeRgnOwner = HLS
ChangeLoyaltyFac = 100
SetControl = 100

SelectRegion = $Holstein
ChangeRgnOwner = DAN
ChangeRgnOwner = HLS
ChangeLoyaltyFac = 100
SetControl = 100
SelectSubUnits = FactionTags HLS
AlterCuSubUnit = ApplyToList;Kill

SelectFaction = $DAN
SettleWhitePeace = ALL

SelectFaction = $GER
SettleWhitePeace = HLS

SelectFaction = $AUS
SettleWhitePeace = HLS

SelectFaction = $GER
ChangeFacMorale = 10
ChgVPCount = 100

SelectFaction = $DAN
ChangeFacMorale = 5

EndEvent

[Veghist]

It was 1865 already, no cryses, Denmark just occupied Holsten in like '53, and I got the Norddeutsches bund the following turn. All I got from this is a CB against Denmark.. I waited for years for something to happen, dut did not. That's all.

[loki100]

It was 1865 already, no cryses, Denmark just occupied Holsten in like '53, and I got the Norddeutsches bund the following turn. All I got from this is a CB against Denmark.. I waited for years for something to happen, dut did not. That's all.

well you need to use the CB you got at the time. If all you want to do is transfer the province with Kiel (I forget its proper name) from Denmark to Germany look at the scripting examples I gave you in the other thread.

As Christophe says above, the war with Austria is optional, if you have played the unification cards then the critical step is the French war.

[Veghist]

Yes, I have the script example I'm just not sure where to paste it.

[HerrDan]

Yes, I have the script example I'm just not sure where to paste it.

What exactly do you need? You should paste events in the faction it affects' events file (that was a good phrase :bonk , also, the current date of your game is a crucial data we need to know beforehand in order to help you properly, from your first post I thought you were in 1855, and that made me confused...

Cheers, tell me what you need and I'll provide you with that

[Christophe.Barot]

It was 1865 already, no cryses, Denmark just occupied Holsten in like '53, and I got the Norddeutsches bund the following turn. All I got from this is a CB against Denmark.. I waited for years for something to happen, dut did not. That's all.

Doh ! did you miss the critical DOW on denmark when event crisis fired - or were you in an unplausible rarest but statisticalluy possible case where event did not fire (usually events happen randomly inside a time span, with usual probabilities - some 25% per turn - probability to survive 5 years or so at 24 turns a year without event firing - range is somehow some 75% power 120, that's infinetisimal - but still possible

we'll check - anyhow Denmark war is planned by event and I hold Prussian/German play as the most gratifying experience, even superior to Russia's (already utmost high in my ranking)

- bide your time, stay out of Crimean war, build massively industrial base - coal, steel, iron, textile,railroad, become a hub of trade, build slowly (low demography at start) an elite prussian army
- smite the Dane, annex SH (here where you had trouble),
- form NGF (easy, for a human player), befriend the Russian and the Italian, keep friend with the Brit,
- crush the Austrian (or not) then (or directly) befriend him,
- crush the French (easy) take Paris and unite Germany,
- keep Austrian Russian Italian alliances, train your army and generals crushing rebels, feed your people (and you won't have rebels, will go fetch them at your allies), build an industrial powerhouse dwarving England's and America's,
you can even indulge to discard Bismarck's caution advice and build a Hochseeflotte and lead a colonial Weltpolitik ahead, with your continental allies, nobody will declare on you (and you can beat French Army - smaller - and British navy - more obsolete at will)

in 1880, game is yours (if you optimized your industrial base, even US won't catch with you, and this is enough for victory) , after you can ignore victory and follow your inclinations
- either follow the "Bismarckian script", quietly developing, colonizing and deterring enemies, possibly setting as the policeman of Europe, crushing liberals and socialists here and there, smashing your allies enemies, sit and click next turn, reading the Kreuzzeitung or the Kolnischer Zeitung, watching your enemies looking at you in awe ...
- .... or run amok, and according your mood, rape Belgium from Kongo, butcher France recurrently, turn against Russia (or just annoy her taking the Ottoman under your wing) or even challenge Britain on the seas and in colonies (Russia and Britain should be at odds anyway) ... whatever you choose, if you were active enough under Bismarck, you can do it (as Obama said), and you still win

what can you have more ? - take at difficult level if you like

still this event not firing is abnormal, we'll investigate ...

[HerrDan]

Doh ! did you miss the critical DOW on denmark when event crisis fired - or were you in an unplausible rarest but statisticalluy possible case where event did not fire (usually events happen randomly inside a time span, with usual probabilities - some 25% per turn - probability to survive 5 years or so at 24 turns a year without event firing - range is somehow some 75% power 120, that's infinetisimal - but still possible

we'll check - anyhow Denmark war is planned by event and I hold Prussian/German play as the most gratifying experience, even superior to Russia's (already utmost high in my ranking)

- bide your time, stay out of Crimean war, build massively industrial base - coal, steel, iron, textile,railroad, become a hub of trade, build slowly (low demography at start) an elite prussian army
- smite the Dane, annex SH (here where you had trouble),
- form NGF (easy, for a human player), befriend the Russian and the Italian, keep friend with the Brit,
- crush the Austrian (or not) then (or directly) befriend him,
- crush the French (easy) take Paris and unite Germany,
- keep Austrian Russian Italian alliances, train your army and generals crushing rebels, feed your people (and you won't have rebels, will go fetch them at your allies), build an industrial powerhouse dwarving England's and America's,
you can even indulge to discard Bismarck's caution advice and build a Hochseeflotte and lead a colonial Weltpolitik ahead, with your continental allies, nobody will declare on you (and you can beat French Army - smaller - and British navy - more obsolete at will)

in 1880, game is yours (if you optimized your industrial base, even US won't catch with you, and this is enough for victory) , after you can ignore victory and follow your inclinations
- either follow the "Bismarckian script", quietly developing, colonizing and deterring enemies, possibly setting as the policeman of Europe, crushing liberals and socialists here and there, smashing your allies enemies, sit and click next turn, reading the Kreuzzeitung or the Kolnischer Zeitung, watching your enemies looking at you in awe ...
- .... or run amok, and according your mood, rape Belgium from Kongo, butcher France recurrently, turn against Russia (or just annoy her taking the Ottoman under your wing) or even challenge Britain on the seas and in colonies (Russia and Britain should be at odds anyway) ... whatever you choose, if you were active enough under Bismarck, you can do it (as Obama said), and you still win

what can you have more ? - take at difficult level if you like

still this event not firing is abnormal, we'll investigate ...

Yeah playing Prussia/Germany is a lot of fun, it has the potential to be the number 1 in the world (as it should), but be careful when you go to war, war planning is one of the strongest points of the AI, if you're not careful you can end up with french/austrian soldiers marching in Berlin. Specially avoid confronting their "stacks of doom", try to wear them down without confronting their main force directly and use logistics in your favor (as Prussia did in rl), outmaneuvering their forces using your über railway system.

If you need help we're here. (by the way Veghist report here if you get what you wanted so that we can know, it's very important to know if we were able to solve a players problem)

Cheers.

[H Gilmer3]

I haven't been playing recently, but my last game was Prussia and I'm pretty sure I had no troubles with the unifications. I know I got to Germany/German Empire because I started colonizing Africa somewhat, which was very satisfying. I would send troops and they'd be starving, then I finally figured out build depots, more and more, keep upgrading them, then you have enough supply to fight natives and anyone else. Oh and build railroads too, I believe, because that helped the colonies as well.

[HerrDan]

I never had any problem achieving unification in the grand campaign either.

[Christophe.Barot]

btw heerrdan, train your generals

a nice "roleplay" feature is that your leaders gain experience and value when they have victories, and lose some when they're beaten

I'd let the system there, as it rewards an active play and is enjopyablme for player - moreover if you get victories, you already are able to get thelm so it doesn't really upset balance, just make next victories even easier

just never never pass an opportunity to smash rebels (including in allies land - Ich habe ein great fondness for Polen, ja, - habsburg allogens aren't bad too), colonial enemies (russian and french had seasoned leaders trained in caucaus, central asia, indochina and africa, and danes (a speciaficity of prussian cooking, but dane's season is short - nights are long in winter in the baltic)

then let's see how is your Moltke (already good before) and other generals

with a decent army (to build progressively) coordinated and a 766 Moltke plus several 555 generals, you'll find their show repulsing enemy (tactically a counterattack, so everybody march to the guns) rather impressive

didn't confront Austrians (a monster since risorgimento mobilization, but I matched them in numbers and they were too far south+I had my top general staff) but France was a cakewalk - after 3 battles, the remnant of their army was crushible peacemal and they constantly begged for peace (but reunion + Alsace OR Lorraine no thanks) - only thing which worried me was bazaine never showed up (randomly didn't appear ? already other leaders , died before i could meet him)

[HerrDan]

btw heerrdan, train your generals

a nice "roleplay" feature is that your leaders gain experience and value when they have victories, and lose some when they're beaten

I'd let the system there, as it rewards an active play and is enjopyablme for player - moreover if you get victories, you already are able to get thelm so it doesn't really upset balance, just make next victories even easier

just never never pass an opportunity to smash rebels (including in allies land - Ich habe ein great fondness for Polen, ja, - habsburg allogens aren't bad too), colonial enemies (russian and french had seasoned leaders trained in caucaus, central asia, indochina and africa, and danes (a speciaficity of prussian cooking, but dane's season is short - nights are long in winter in the baltic)

then let's see how is your Moltke (already good before) and other generals

with a decent army (to build progressively) coordinated and a 766 Moltke plus several 555 generals, you'll find their show repulsing enemy (tactically a counterattack, so everybody march to the guns) rather impressive

didn't confront Austrians (a monster since risorgimento mobilization, but I matched them in numbers and they were too far south+I had my top general staff) but France was a cakewalk - after 3 battles, the remnant of their army was crushible peacemal and they constantly begged for peace (but reunion + Alsace OR Lorraine no thanks) - only thing which worried me was bazaine never showed up (randomly didn't appear ? already other leaders , died before i could meet him)

I'm not playing the grand campaign anymore, I lost the saves during one of the (many) times I had to format my pc, but at the time I was in the game I had already beaten the Austrians and French and achieved unification in the "blood and iron" way. Moltke is the kind of general we miss later, specially in the 1880 campaign, I suffered a little with my war against Russia in my game (the game I write my not-so-famous AAR), because many of my generals had mediocre stats, but after the war most of them becane really great experienced generals. My greatest concern now is that Hindenburg didn't appear yet (I'm in 1901), nor did Baron Schlliefen (he's supposed to appear before the 1900s), so I'm very worried, I don't know how to script generals to appear on the map, nor to go away, I had to "kill" Blumenthal, because he hadn't retired in my game as he should have (Blumenthal retired in 1896, and my game was in 1900), so these things about generals worries me, if you know anyway to script generals in our out let me know please.