colonial low-classiness (?)

[Jamitar]

Ive got many farms and mines abroad (gold, gems, sugar/rhum tobbaco,coffee)
problem commes in when there are lacks of population. so I start doing immigrants.
but immigrants seem to not affect middle class numbers.
result is that my gold mines (and others) get a blockade of 50%production
please fix this, I thought middle classes also went to colonies (if someone appointed me as the guy in charge of gold mine , you wouldnt need much convincing other than salary ajustment)
please make middle classes automatically come to prospering business in colonies
also its impossible to make immigrants in curucao (100% dutch, taken as war price) and it wont shift. ( war was over a decade ago if not more)

please adjust

[yellow ribbon]

nay, completely normal situation, no bug, no error:

IMMIGRATION cards does IMPROVE the situation of the EXISTING population in a certain province.
Population is increased with a value of POINTS based on existing population, without altering the classes the population distributes itself into...

It does not just send convicts into the desert to found a colony by themselves, nor bureaucrats.
Literally, settlers will not move in a place if there is no need for it.

Since you build structures, keep them running population WILL eventually move to this spot on their own, unfortunately this takes up to few years...

if there should be something fixed, it would be any additional card sending home countries population down to colonies, or not...

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for Curacao, there was a problem with loyalty/MC arising from / fixed through harbors and such structures, have seen it for Asian islands.

might be the same problem (dont have a game open), easy to solve then...

[Jamitar]

I have those gold mines (falaba) since 1855.... "a few years "

theres a city, a big enough population of workers and farmers ( and a lot of immigrant cards placed)

I assumed it wasnt an error, Im asking for a change in the scripts as to fix this to a more realistic repartition

[yellow ribbon]

you have to differ:

the one province were you got even a city, its abnormal right, but even there the peasants will not turn in into brokers.

on the other hand are investments in non-national regions itself:

I believe we both had a similar discussion when i had to disappoint you that the immigration decision will usually not lead to any new city, but if the original population was already pretty high.

if i have to wait 9 years to have a nitrate mine in the west of the Mississippi on 100% labor efficiency despite RR ON NATIONAL SOIL, or to wait even longer despite high population to be able to build a mine in the Black Hills / badlands of the peaceful conquered Sioux despite scripted gold event, you will have to do so with colonization either.

sorry, but i just tell it as straight as it is. I know how annoying it is. Its just that the better part of that development is scripted for good reasons.

Since the decisions colonial as well as nationals do work with relative "POINTS" and not with an absolute value the decisions can be worthless before the scripted change of population.
the only alternative is build, maintain, wait... if you can spare the single piece of gold or silk or oil or rubber..., dont build in the first place.

if you want to play realistic, getting everything what you can carry away. Just to know that you can, the natives cant.... well then, live even with one single unit output or whatsoever

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"a change in the scripts as to fix this to a more realistic repartition"

you dont know much about history, do you?

first, colonies were just dirty places until the run for places at the sun around 1890/1900.

since most original events for special resources give you either many resource fields in one single spot or additional stocks of goods already (like Californian goldrush) the economical benefit is simulated close to perfect and no economical steamrolling possible

for historical population / the classes of population:

the french and british used convicts and military as well as their relatives.

they, especially the french, forced officers of the army to stay for further years after the officers retired from active duty.

the british imported workers from India to Africa to keep it running even in the basic levels of non-pure-manual labor.


the Belgian colonial population were particularly a bunch of aggressive, parasitic scumbags and bloodthirsty murderers (even compared to the later german behavior), thats one of the reasons why the king lost his private property down there.


the Germans had extraordinary problems even to get workers down there, thats why they were depending on protectortes / local chiefs / Askari and so on. Most other interaction was done on purpose of single merchant communities.
for instance "Deutsch-Südwestafrika":

in 1902

in total: 200.000 inhabitants

among them
2.595 German
1.354 Burs
452 Britons.

in 1914 additionally 9.000 more Germans including troops


for "older colonies" you will find similar distributions. Centers of competence and a lot of wasteland.


THATS WHY COLONIAL GOODS WERE THAT COSTLY.

not for the huge demand for them, no, for all the problems to keep up the supply in the first place (without slaves).

colonies did only make sense for prestige and the striving of self-sustaining economies, both purposes failed in reality, but not in PON, thus PONs colonies will be a bargain what ever you do (if dont want to have highest prestige)

in PON especially due to the disproportional high tax revenue coming from luxuries
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its like the problem with the military we saw for 5 months now, when players just use a couple of corps to deal with high losses against natives, while historically (which is still 75% of PONs simulation) maybe 10.000 colonial troops were in all Africa the same year.

any possibility to build does not mean that its truly worth to do it, unless you need ANY good you can pick up from colonies.

[Kensai]

the Belgian colonial population were particularly a bunch of aggressive, parasitic scumbags and bloodthirsty murderers (even compared to the later german behavior), thats one of the reasons why the king lost his private property down there.

Playing Belgium in a MP game. Thankfully the game does NOT simulate abusive behavior against the natives.

[yellow ribbon]

well Kensai,

i normally play the USA and thus i really dont want to estimate how many natives "got killed" during the use of peaceful assimilation of tribal cultures in game.

all the bloody years long wars like the 1850s is simulated with the colonial cards like pacifying and so on...
a village burned down here and there maybe. accidentally??!

for sake of simulation i like it. for sake of history, too many players use military force too often.

just to remember its a game and better learn from a game and a forum, than from wiki---

[Kensai]

It's a game, sure. But we can simulate to a certain degree real policies. This is what I like in our PBEM game. Although scripted events, SOIs, claimed areas, etc somehow limit the liberties one nation has, it can fairly cope with international relations.

Can we avoid the Great War? We are only 5 years away of knowing...
(seriously: 1856 and submitting one fortnight of game per real day)