Combat results questions

[dougbush93]

After checking out the combat and morale tables in the mods folder, it appears that they are very faithful to the LGG boardgame, which is a good thing.

However, I have noticed combat results in the game that aren't explained by the results on these charts.

For example:

In the Tannenberg Scenario, the RU I Army attacks into Gummbigen. I turned off all the fog of war so I could see the results on the German units as well:

This is a minor battle (only one sub-battle)
Clear terrain, no mods
German General has 1 defense star

Round 1: RU 454(vet) attacks GE 674(vet) + Arty

This attack should be on the -5 Column with a -2 drm
(RU 4 to GE 9 = -5 column, German drm total = +4, RU drm total = +1)

Result is an "Out of Combat" on the Russian Corps, which means the corps took an M or 2 result, and then did the following morale check:

RU NW +2, Vet +1 = +3 mod

This is one part of this combat I can't explain. With a +3 mod, there should be no way the Russians can get an OOC result b/c the lowest final morale check die roll they can have is a 4, which is a "Disorg" result, not OOC.

Round 2: RU 454(vet) attacks GE 674+Arty

Again, this is a -5 column / -2 drm attack, same as round 1

Result is RU Corps Disorg / GE Corps flips (must have been an M-1 or 2-1 final result)

No issues here. This one checks out per the combat and morale charts. It means the Russian player, with a +3 morale check mod, rolled a 2 or 3 to get a DO result

Round 3: RU 223(reserve) attacks GE 454+Arty

This should be a -5 / -2 attack again
(RU 2 to GE 7, GE Mods total +2, RU Mods total 0)

Result is a 1 / 1, with both corps being reduced. No morale checks.

A very lucky, but possible result. The final result had to be a 10 (only way to get a 1-1 result on the -5), which means the Russians rolled a 12.

Round 4: RU 223(reserve) attacks GE 233 (a flipped 454 corps)

This should be a -1 / -1 attack
(RU 2 to GE 3, GE Mods +1, RU Mods +0)

Result is the RU Corps is Disorg, GE corps takes 0 losses

This result checks out with the charts. It means the final result was a 3 on the -1 column, which is an M-0 result. RU Corps checked morale with a +1 mod (+2NW, -1 Reserve), so he rolled a 3 or 4 to get a disorg result.

Russians Retreat

Then things get even more odd / hard to explain. The combat results screen says this for the Russians:

Wounded = 3
Shaken = 0
Disorg = 0
OOC = 1
Destroyed = 1

The OOC = 1 and Shaken = 0 are correct.

The "wounded" is not correct if the computer is simply totaling the # of Russian corps that are either on the map, destroyed, or OOC and got reduced in the process. All 4 Russian corps in the battle were reduced. Shouldn't this be 4? I suppose it could be 3 if the computer is not counting the "destroyed" corps.

The "destroyed = 1" is where I really get confused. Units are eliminated (destroyed) in only one of three ways:

1. They take an "E" result from the CRT. Didn't appear to happen here.

2. They get an "E" result on a morale check. Again, doesn't appear to have happened. I never saw an "eliminated" in red text after a round. I did see "out of combat" in round 1, and "disorganized" in rounds 2 and 4.

3. A corps gets a "panic" result, which eliminates the corps that panics, and then also causes other corps in the stack to take an additional morale check. In any case, a corps has to have a -1 or worse result on the morale chart. I never saw "panic" on any of the results.

Overall, I'm stumped on how a Russian corps was "destroyed", given what appears to be the possible results on the CRT and Morale Tables? I also don't understand how a full-strength Russian veteran corps (in round 1) could take an OOC result with the Russian NW at +2?

Doug

[tagwyn]

Great Analysis Dougie!!! apy:

[PoorBoy2001]

Yes, excellent analysis Doug. I've often wondered about the excessive number of "destroyed" results.

I asked Calvinus if he would consider making the combat results a little more transparent (display the die rolls and CRT results). This would help with troubleshooting for sure.

Garrett

[Kaiser1918]

I think he will do that. My favorite for this is the SSG wargame series (Korsun Pocket and the others)...there you see the dice and the rolls if I remember correctly.

The combat window needs a big overhaul with respect to this: Display the CRT, the dice rolled and the result and a combat log at the end instead of the useless combat window.

[calvinus]

I will do the Combat Logs as much detailed as I can, putting all infos needed. This will help me (and you) to check all possible mistakes too.

[dougbush93]

The log will definitely help. Right now, the only things that appears inconsistent with the boardgame's combat system are:

1. The unexplained "destroyed" units in my post above, which don't seem to match up with the "eliminated" results from the boardgame and the CRT

2. How battles end: I have had my armies retreat when there were still good order (not shaken or worse) corps committed to the battle. I sometimes see text about a "critical retreat" occurring when this happens? In the boardgame, a player is only forced to retreat if there are no units available to commit to the next round, or a unit gets a "panic" result. Of course, like all things with LGG there is a fine point: you cannot commit a unit from the reserves if the last unit in combat takes and "E" or "OOC" result. You can send in a reserve unit if the last unit only takes a "Disorg" or "Shaken" result.

I'm not saying that computer LGG has to be just like the boardgame though. As long as the combat system is fully explained, it will work.

Keep up the good work. New beta 105a patch is working fine so far.

Doug