Feature or Bug? Empty French Army stuck in enemy territory

[Motomouse]

Playing as Central Powers. After a battle (part of grand offensive) the opposing french forces were destroyed, all but one army. This army sits right there in germany valiantly, but with not one active corpse left, only one corpse in reserve. If I move a army into the province I win the battle instantly, but the empty army remains there as well peacefully alongside their german counterpart.

How to procede, or is this just a bug?

Regards
Motomouse

[Rafiki]

I'm sure it would be interesting to see the savegame for this; can you upload it please?

(BTW, I'm sure you must be talking about "corps" rather than "corpse", though by the situation you describe, I'm sure the French won't mind having some zombies on their side )

[PhilThib]

A specific case indeed, we need the save....there is feature that prevents destruction of HQs, but there might be particular instances like yours where it gives weird results

[calvinus]

Savegame savegame!

[WhoCares]

I sent you a save showing where german and french units are in the same region.

[calvinus]

Ok, I see... unfortunately this is a side effect of the WEGO mode, and it's a hell to find a way to "fix" this "bug"...

[PDF]

Couldn't you make the "empty" HQ retreat - or better "teleport" it back to Paris ?
I didn't understand why HQ cannot be destroyed - wouldn't it be more logical to destroy them but mak:e them reappear (or simply "teleport to capital" as above) ?

[Motomouse]

Tried to attach the savegame with the first post and learned that I need to zip the files. Did not want to install winzip and learned that in vista you have a build in zipper . Then I learned you need to select sendto to zip the files.

Anyway here is the savegame. By the way the HQ is isolated, should not the corpses corps rot anyway (it is already alive isolated for several months)

Regards

[WhoCares]

Not sure whether this is a related problem, but I have also the case that several french HQs are stacked in the same region (~3-4 HQs). Not sure whether it is already in the save I send you or whether I should send you another one (which might have to wait until tomorrow). The stack should be in the region northeast of Dijon.

[calvinus]

Never mind WhoCares, I can reproduce the problem very easily...
I can't prevent this behavior, but... I'm considering the opportunity of fixing it after it happens... like a general stacking check at the end of each turn? Suggestions???

[WhoCares]

But where to move them? I could imagine that at that time you don't know anymore about the battle that forced them to retreat there.

An alternative might be to really destroy them and have them return as reinforcements, like a cadre around which a new army can be built. Not sure whether the placement might have to be tied to a front...

[calvinus]

A solution could be to force them moving towards the nearest supply source, entailing additional losses... ok, I will think about.

[Franciscus]

Couldn't you make the "empty" HQ retreat - or better "teleport" it back to Paris ?
I didn't understand why HQ cannot be destroyed - wouldn't it be more logical to destroy them but mak:e them reappear (or simply "teleport to capital" as above) ?

I also think unfortunate that HQ can not be destroyed. Probably a rule of the boardgame, but in AACW, although difficult, they could be destroyed and re-built again (at great cost). But I know...different engine, boardgame rules...
I also think that in the PC game the best solution would be PDF suggestion- make them perishable but after they would reappear in the capital (or maybe nearest national controlled town if the capital was conquered by the enemy)

[SIZE="1"](PS @ Rafiki: Why have I been stuck at Coronel ?? Political promotions over my head ? That could have a cost in NM, you know ? :wacko [/size]

[WhoCares]

In the boardgame they are actually destroyable, from the Basic Rulse:

30-H. Destroyed HQ or GHQ
• An HQ or a GHQ is destroyed, if its stack is isolated and destroyed.
• A destroyed HQ must return to the game the following turn, with a unit from
its Army or (as a default) in a national city.
• A destroyed GHQ must return to the game in a national city the following turn.

7-I. Recovery of Destroyed HQ
• Each player recovers any of his destroyed HQs (if he has them, rare) and
redeploys them with a unit from his Army (or lacking one, to a town / city in his own country) (See 30.H).

[calvinus]

In fact, as I wrote in another post, I was forced to override the original boardgame rules because of technical problems, introducing a new mechanic: HQ forced to withdraw to the nearest supply source suffering big losses... Probably in these cases, the engine fault in finding a supply source.

[PDF]

Calvinus
Why is that so hard to "kill" them and put them back on map or in the "reinforcement" schedule, as per the rules ?

[calvinus]

Because old versions suffered a rid of crashes because it was impossible to locate the HQ...

[PDF]

Ok, but if you just "teleport" the HQ back to capital (possibly with a cost), you shouldn't have this problem? Then the detachments will be out of command range usually, and that's rather realistic...

[calvinus]

Ok, but if you just "teleport" the HQ back to capital (possibly with a cost), you shouldn't have this problem? Then the detachments will be out of command range usually, and that's rather realistic...

Your suggestion is great! My poor brain never thought of this opportunity!

The only doubts are:
a) stacking limits
b) the no-more-than-one HQ per area rule...

It's a endless discussion...

It's really hard to work out a PC game from a monster boardgame like LGG!!!

[lodilefty]

Your suggestion is great! My poor brain never thought of this opportunity!

The only doubts are:
a) stacking limits
b) the no-more-than-one HQ per area rule...

It's a endless discussion...

It's really hard to work out a PC game from a monster boardgame like LGG!!!

Teleport each HQ to a different city [predefine a city 'Somewhere in France' ]

[calvinus]

Yes... the nearest city, but friendly controlled and not besieged! So we go back to the actual rule: the nearest supply source!

[PDF]

Glad to be of help Calvinus !
In the rare case several HQs would have to be "reborn" at the same place, either put the excess ones to the nearest city, or just to an adjacent empty region.

[calvinus]

And also this point is solved!
I just finished the refactoring of this issue.
Automatic retreat towards the nearest supply source of the stacked enemy forces is now working fine, taking always properly into account the siege/friendly-territory priorities, of course.

Next patch...

[Haplo_Patryn]

You're working a lot of, Calvinus. Thank you!!!

[WhoCares]

What about the Redeployment phase? I am in Jan-Feb 1916 and in the redeployment phase the French moved the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th and 8th army along with a few detachments to the Bourgogne region.
The odd thing about it is that it did the redeployment twice, once moving multiple armies out of the very same region (getting there after some battles as described in this thread), but after saving yesterday and restarting today the AI played the redeployment again and decided to 'mass' (most armies are empty or just one corps) them back in this region...

[Sean E]

Wouldn't it be easier to just have units in the HQ destroyed and then have HQ return as reinforcement in a later tuen?

[calvinus]

It was so in a pre-beta version, but this was causing a mess of crashes... so I was forced to override the boardgame rules.

In the current version under work (1.0.4f which will be probably released as 1.0.5 :confused , I introduced a check performed at the end of each turn/phase: when two stacks enemy each other share the same area, one is selected for retreat towards the nearest supply source, taking into account all possible siege/friendly-area priorities, of course.