Dutch map

[Emeg]

I don't known what is shown on the boardgame version, but i.m.o. there is a designflaw on the Dutch map. I am talking about the region pointed with the orange arrow. It looks to me that this region represent Flevoland because its swampy landscape. The problem is that the Flevopolders didn't exist in the game timeperiod, they were created after World War 2.



It is i.m.o. not nessesary to delete the region from the map because it can represent the Veluwe region north of Arnhem and the area of the "Utrechtse heuvelrug" also. People who are familiar with the geographical situation in the Netherlands know that an important part of this region is forest. You can easily see this on every satellite map.



Greetings, Emeg

[PhilThib]

Thanks for the tip ! We'll fix it when we come to map correction then

[Bertram]

Dont fix it, as it is correct!

The region consists of both the Veluwe and the Utrecht province (a clue is the rial line running through it, which still runs along the east side of the Randmeren, the stretch of water left between the polders and the old land).

I suspect the marsh condition reflects the indunation (sp? - the deliberate flooding) of the Utrechtse Vallei. This is part of the Fortress Holland defense, build soon after the 1870 war. The valley runs from the IJsselmeer to the rivers, and would be flooded in case of war. Together with fortresses around Utrecht and Amsterdam it would stop the enemy (the Germans) from reaching Holland. Defenses along the Afsluitdijk should keep them away in the north, the rivers would hold them in the south. Of course the rest of the Netherlands was kind of out of luck. (but the gouvernement and the war ministry was located in Holland).

A war later the defenses saw some action, though the flooding didnt work as advertised: it was very dry and the water level was to low in may 1940. At the Grebbelinie (part of the Utrechtse defenses) and the Afsluitdijk there was fighting, and the German advance was (temporily) stopped at the rivers south of Rotterdam. The Germans didnt play nice though, and used planes to overcome the defenses.

Some historicans say this has kept Holand out of the war: the Germans saw the defence as very strong, and considered it not cost effective to conquer Holland (and a neutral neighbour with which you can do some trading can be handy).


Bertram

[Emeg]

Dont fix it, as it is correct!

The region consists of both the Veluwe and the Utrecht province (a clue is the rial line running through it, which still runs along the east side of the Randmeren, the stretch of water left between the polders and the old land. <..>

It looks to me that the given map region was created to represent the Flevo polders. You have right, there is a rail line running from Utrecht-Amersfoort-Harderwijk-Zwolle.

I suspect the marsh condition reflects the indunation (sp? - the deliberate flooding) of the Utrechtse Vallei. This is part of the Fortress Holland defense, build soon after the 1870 war. The valley runs from the IJsselmeer to the rivers, and would be flooded in case of war. Together with fortresses around Utrecht and Amsterdam it would stop the enemy (the Germans) from reaching Holland.

A agree with your plea for the existence of the [color="Red"]New Dutch Waterline[/color] because it was a very important part in the Dutch defence strategy against attacks coming from the south and the east. But to let the swamps of the given region act as that defence line is i.m.o. incorrect.

As you wrote, the Water Line runs from the IJsselmeer (before 1932 it was the Zuider Sea) to the Waal river. But the indunations, forming that Water Line were not located east of the city Utrecht, that city was a cornerstone in the New Water Line. (see picture 1)

East of the New Water Line was the [color="Red"]Utrecht Hill Ridge[/color] (Utrechtse heuvelrug) and at the east side of that lateral moraine exist[color="Red"] the Grebbe Line[/color] (see picture 2). That defence line formed as you wrote the main defence line in [color="Red"]May 1940[/color]. It was named to the stream the Grebbe running from north to south along the east side of the Utrecht Hill Ridge. East of that defence line exist the Gelderse Valley, separating the Utrecht Hill Ridge from the Veluwe forests.

Defenses along the Afsluitdijk should keep them away in the north, the rivers would hold them in the south. Of course the rest of the Netherlands was kind of out of luck. (but the gouvernement and the war ministry was located in Holland).

The Afsluitdijk did not exist during World War I

Some historicans say this has kept Holand out of the war: the Germans saw the defence as very strong, and considered it not cost effective to conquer Holland (and a neutral neighbour with which you can do some trading can be handy).

There were also (somewhat) anti English feelings during World War 1 in the Netherlands because the Boer War one decade earlier. In fact was the neutral Netherlands during WW1 light pro German. And for the German Kaiser in exile, the town Doorn, located in the beautiful Utrecht Hill Ridge forests was a very nice residence to stay for the rest of his life

May-be it is a good idea to redraw the Dutch map somewhat (see the suggested red-orange borderlines) to keep us both happy and to create a more realistic defence line for the Dutch army during the Great War.

My suggestion is to create a swampy Utrecht region (region #3 on the map below). This represent the Dutch Water Line running from the Zuider Sea to the rivers. Region #2 represent Arnhem and its surrounding area. Region #1 represent the Veluwe and should have forests as landscape.



If it not possible to redraw regional borders than I still suggest to make from the given swamy region along the south-eastern Zuider Sea coast a forest region. Why is this i.m.o. not incorrect? Remember, the orientation of the gamemap is not North, it's topside is rougly to the East North-East direction pointed, please don't confuse with that fact.

If you are familiair with the Dutch geographical situation and look carefully to picture 1 of the water defence line map, than you understand that the Dutch New Water Line meet the Zuider Sea coast West of [color="Red"]the Gooi[/color] area. That area is the Northern part of the Utrecht Hill Ridge and belongs to the province North Holland, not Utrecht. You can see that Hilversum is situated at the east side of the Water defence Line, that line also include the Loosdrechtse plassen (an area of swallow lakes)

Because I like geographical maps very well , I have placed another realworld situation Google map and draw (rougly) the existing region borders (orange) used in the game and the game railroads (black) into the Google map also.



As you can see, the swampy game region along the south-eastern Zuider Sea coastline is situated clearly east of the Water defence Line and should because that i.m.o. not a swampy area but a forest area representing the Veluwe region. The easy fix is, make Utrecht swampy as the Amsterdam region already is, and give the Veluwe region its forests and all the problems are fixed.

Note; In real there is not a railroad running from Utrecht direct to Gorinchem. The railroad from Utrecht to the south runs first to Culemborg. South of Culemborg there is a railroad junction, from there a line runs further south to 's-Hertogenbosch, the other turns west to Leerdam-Gorinchem.

Other good information about the Dutch water defence line:
http://www.hollandsewaterlinie.nl/index.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Water_Line

Greetings, Emeg.