jcrohio
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Supply Question

Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:15 pm

Why are the following Turkish units out of supply?

Jack

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Random
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Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:01 pm

Not only out of supply but also isolated. Can you upload the save?

-CC

Averkinen
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Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:16 pm

Wow, I see that it's multiplayer, and your "Russian" opponent is completely destroyed. :bonk:
Sorry for my bad English. ;)

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calvinus
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Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:16 pm

If you use the shortcut key to show supply lines of selected stacks (I recall it's CTRL-S), what do you see?
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jcrohio
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Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:39 pm

Random - save game uploaed

Calvinus - Ctrl S shows pink lines (which I believe means relays) back to the rail lines behind the two isolated units - no green lines

Averkinen - just out of curiosity how can you tell the Russian is completely defeated?

[ATTACH]22415[/ATTACH]
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Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:55 am

Hey Jack, some thoughts follow:

It appears as though the Turkish supply line through Trabizond-Batum terminates at Batum and the five coastal areas are not in supply despite the level-1 railroad connected through all five areas. These are from south to north, Chavka, Anaklia, Ylori, Sukhumi (TU GHQ), Lidzawa (TU II Army) and Sotchi (TU III Army). I could find nothing in the MapAreas.csv that accounts for this seeming anomaly.

For some reason those railroads are not supply friendly to Turkey despite being owned and converted and railroad supply terminates at Batum. Ctrl-R shows that they are connected back to Turkey.

The only thing I can think of is that your GHQ cannot act as a supply relay under the provisions of paragraph 9-1 in the Big Manual. Maybe Turkish supply using Russian railroads has undocumented restrictions.

Turkish GHQ could act as a relay but itself looks like its out of supply under the provisions of paragraph 9-1-2. What happens if you place GHQ within two areas of Batum?

Tried an experiment and edited the Tuapse Bay coastal sea zone from Russian control to Turkish control which opened up Sotchi as a supply port. See screenshot:

[ATTACH]22416[/ATTACH]

Note that when the turn loads the Turkish forces are no longer isolated. The power of Sea Control...

I suspect there's something I'm missing, sorry.

-C

Edit
Just to clarify, the edit to change control of the Tuapse Bay zone was done in the .MAP file for the saved game.

Also note that according to the Big Manual the Armenian Region has several of special features that affect both the Russian and Turkish armies. Wonder if there are undocumented and hard-coded restrictions on Turkish supply into Russia proper?
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Averkinen
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Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:28 am

jcrohio wrote:Averkinen - just out of curiosity how can you tell the Russian is completely defeated?

Well, you control of the entire Caucasus, as well as (I'm look at the mini-map) the whole of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Belarussia and most of the Ukraine, this is comparable to the Brest-Litovsk peace, such territorial losses are not compatible with the successful conduct of the war, at least during WW1 + I do not see any Russian troops on the map, so assuming what Russia is destroyed already.

EDIT: I looked at your savegame and was amazed that Russia still at war. Btw, a good session, mate. :hat:
Sorry for my bad English. ;)

jcrohio
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Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:17 pm

Random - Thanks for the replies - ended up just backing up and taking all armies through the passes going north of the mountains

Supplies is another area that confuses me from time to time

I liked your idea of editing .MAP file - have another issue which I am going to look at in this file - I have some railroads with the little sign post (unconverted rr's) that I cannot convert - they are different from normal in that the sign post and the region have different ownership - latest one has a Persian region with a Turkish signpost - tried converting with a Persian unit and a Turkish unit but neither would do it - also the automatic conversion at the Interphase does no good - going to see if I can just edit the MAP file

Averkinem - I guess if I would have used a little common sense I could have saved you the trouble of replying to my post!

Again thanks
Jack

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calvinus
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Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:23 pm

I remember the Naval Control mission was tweaked to affect also the control of all coastal areas bordering the open sea waters targeted by the mission. But I'm not sure as this was coded a long time ago...

Did you try to perform a Control Naval Mission in Black Sea with a suitable Turkish fleet?
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Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:05 pm

calvinus wrote:I remember the Naval Control mission was tweaked to affect also the control of all coastal areas bordering the open sea waters targeted by the mission. But I'm not sure as this was coded a long time ago...

Did you try to perform a Control Naval Mission in Black Sea with a suitable Turkish fleet?

I am wondering why the railroad from Batum is not providing any Turkish supply through the Turkish GHQ? This seems intentional, the edit to the .MAP file to open the port of Stochi makes it look like everything else is working as designed.

When clearing coastal areas, naval control missions are definitely helpful to keep the supply going, which is why I edited the minimum fleet size for control missions from six to three. This allows the Russians and Turks to contest for control of the Black Sea.

-C

jcrohio
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Wed May 01, 2013 1:04 am

Calvinus - did not try that - I am very weak with the naval game - pretty much ignored it in my two campaigns I have played up until now using the CP - that is my next task - to try to come to terms with the naval game

Random - I agree with you - I thought the rail out of Batum acted as a supply railway (hence the brown color) and that control of Stochi pretty much gave me supply - again I need to learn how to use the navy

Jack

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Wed May 01, 2013 6:37 pm

I seem to recall running into a similar issue while clearing Palestine as the British so I suspect that it might be intentional. I had to conduct constant Control missions using the Mediterranean Fleet to ensure supply of my army once it left Sinai (and British Egypt). Eventually I tired of this and edited the save so that Britain controlled the port (Haifa?). This was before I learned the value of the Supply display and I may be remembering wrong anyway.

In the event, Turkish logistics were rather appalling and supporting armies at the end of a very low capacity was probably beyond their means so I have no real issue with the way that it's represented if working as designed.

-C

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