How to exploit the Russian steamroller?

[Drakken]

Historically, the German High Command and OberOst continued to fear the Russian steamroller as late as 1916, even after the disasters of Tannenberg and the Mazurian Lakes, because the Russians fielded the double of their number of divisions, German and Austrian, combined, plus their huge numbers of Reserves in rear lines.

However, in the game Russian HQs can field only 7 Corps (12 for main Army) while German can field 8 Corps. Also, from what I gather one cannot attack the same hex simultaneously with more than one Army at a time, am I wrong?

If it is the case, that also render the large amount of Russian armies useless as well, because even on one-to-one basis Germans can field more Corps than Russians in a single HQ.

So I am confused about my options.

How can the Russian player use its enormous number of Corps to smash the German and Austrian armies in battle, if each German army can field a bigger max of Corps individually than a Russian army? Because if the average Russian Corps is worse than the German one, the only hope for Russia is to send even way, way more Corps in battle on tinier German forces and hope to flip them and smash them through sheer numbers of Corps.

[Tamas]

The German fear was mostly unfounded, I think

AFAIK they had one major victory in the entire war, the Brusilov offensive, and it pretty much bled their offensive power dry.

[Drakken]

The German-Austrian offensive of Winter 1914-1915 were pretty brutal for the Germans as well, as much due to the weather than the Russians, so much as these were in fact a draw, the Austrians failing to take Przemysl and the Germans failing to annihilate the Russians in detail.

And I'm not saying that the Russians should have it easy, on the contrary. Just that the Russian's only strength laid in its sheer size and numbers, and the rules I currently read steal the latter from them because they cannot concentrate huge numbers of (badly trained) Corps to attempt to sweep them off.

[PhilThib]

The Russian army of 1914, although with some numbers and a few quality elements, was even worse than the Red Army at the time of June 41 Barbarossa.

The limitation in number of corps per Russian individual armies (7 vs 8) is partly compensated by the fact Russia can field more armies on that front (unless a major CP effort). It's WAD because it is also supposed to represent the abysmal chain of command (and quality of same) and general organization at the strategic level of the Czarist army.

On the other hand, you get zillions of free (although poor quality) recruits, ready to jump into the next slaughter...

[Drakken]

The Russian army of 1914, although with some numbers and a few quality elements, was even worse than the Red Army at the time of June 41 Barbarossa.

The limitation in number of corps per Russian individual armies (7 vs 8) is partly compensated by the fact Russia can field more armies on that front (unless a major CP effort). It's WAD because it is also supposed to represent the abysmal chain of command (and quality of same) and general organization at the strategic level of the Czarist army.

On the other hand, you get zillions of free (although poor quality) recruits, ready to jump into the next slaughter...

I understand these limitations, historically-wise. I am just perhaps misunderstanding the game rules and what I am allowed to do or not.

Can the player attack the same area with more than one Army at the same time, or at least one after the other? Perhaps I wrongly interpreted the "no more than one HQ moving in and stacking in the same target area" for "no more than one HQ can attack the same region simultaneously".

If the player can, than my point is moot.

[PhilThib]

IIRC you can attack with different armies the same target only when coordinated (a difficult feat for the Russians - another historical fact). But only Calvinus can answer you here

[Drakken]

IIRC you can attack with different armies the same target only when coordinated (a difficult feat for the Russians - another historical fact). But only Calvinus can answer you here

When I made my first A-to-A try yesterday, I succeeded to do to the impossible: Succeed my coordination roll with Rennenkampf and Samsonov, who notoriously loathed one another.

What about WEGO, aren't Armies automatically considered coordinated or is the roll made during movement?

[calvinus]

When I made my first A-to-A try yesterday, I succeeded to do to the impossible: Succeed my coordination roll with Rennenkampf and Samsonov, who notoriously loathed one another.

You succeeded only because there's a special scenario rule that allow it in Early August 1914, automatic coordination!

What about WEGO, aren't Armies automatically considered coordinated or is the roll made during movement?

Coordination has no sense in WEGO!

[Drakken]

You succeeded only because there's a special scenario rule that allow it in Early August 1914, automatic coordination!

Which is rendered useless by the fact that the Russian I and II Army are too far from one another to attack together. Sneaky.

Coordination has no sense in WEGO!

Does this mean that Armies can freely attack the same target in WEGO, regardless of coordination?

[Tamas]

Does this mean that Armies can freely attack the same target in WEGO, regardless of coordination?

yes.

Coordination is about moving the armies at the same time, but in WEGO all armies move at the same time

[Drakken]

yes.

Coordination is about moving the armies at the same time, but in WEGO all armies move at the same time

Good. I had misconstrued the rules into thinking that I couldn't. Thanks!

[rattlesnake]

It's WAD because it is also supposed to represent the abysmal chain of command (and quality of same) and general organization at the strategic level of the Czarist army.

That is the right.Czarist dominion is the another reason of the low production and poor army performance.

[rattlesnake]

Can the player attack the same area with more than one Army at the same time, or at least one after the other? Perhaps I wrongly interpreted the "no more than one HQ moving in and stacking in the same target area" for "no more than one HQ can attack the same region simultaneously".

If the player can, than my point is moot.

Of course, the player can attack the same area with more than one Army.

[Drakken]

Seems I'm getting the hold of things in Army-to-Army. Here's what happens when Russia gets mean with the Czar Plan.

Here's the situation in August 1914 after using Encircling and Breakthrough strategems against the Austrian III Army last turn. There doesn't remain very much, and Austria has lost 3 Corps confirmed.

Oddly, the III and IV Army surrounded are not updated as such immediately. When I load the save game, however, they do appear as "isolated", as it should.

[calvinus]

Supply and Isolation status is checked in the beginning and in the end of Military phase. That's why you didn't see them isolated immediately. And also it's because you saw them isolated when you reloaded the game: the engine executed all isolation/supply checks of the beginning of Military phase.

[Drakken]

Obviously, the Austrian isolated stacks should attempt to get the hell out of the pocket on its turn, otherwise it is a bug no?

I've booked interceptions for III and V Army, we'll see how it goes. If the AI does anything else than attempt to pull out, I'll send the save game.

[calvinus]

Obviously, the Austrian isolated stacks should attempt to get the hell out of the pocket on its turn, otherwise it is a bug no?

The "urgent escape procedure" in case of Isolation or prolonged out-of-supply has been introduced with 1.08F, and it's widely tested.
Of course, you can try to act against such moves....