WW1 Bad Players Reviews on GamersGate - Call for Voicing your Opinion

[Provolution]

There you go sir. After the 1f beta patch, I am convinced. This very nice game may even award a four star or 85 % in the percentile scale! Very good sir.

[PDF]

I would have let the matter drop if they didn't ask us to post comments defending their release over at Gamersgate.

Not the "release", the *game*. Noone added the fact that in 3 weeks time 90% of the problems are fixed, and the manual will come soon also. What remains is a very deep, interesting and historical game (something that Paradox never really managed to do btw :neener , and there's just *no* hint of that in the reviews.

There is even a blatant erroneous statement in one of the "reviews", who states that "8 playable nations (and all the other features along) " are "lies" and that there is only 4 playable nations. But there IS 8 playable nations !
This one at least should be removed.

[razorbackjac]

Can you post at Gamers Gate if you did not buy the game thru them. I have a account there and did read the reviews but could not leave a positive review myself.

[gpepper]

Can you post at Gamers Gate if you did not buy the game thru them. I have a account there and did read the reviews but could not leave a positive review myself.

It seems that you have to buy the game on their site to let any review about it...

[ulver1]

I bought the game via Gamers Gate: Will be happy to write a review when I have had time to actually figure the game out.

I also would be happy to post a reply from the designer if you need a mouthpiece. It is already obvious to me that this will eventually be a great game

[PhilThib]

Thanks.... by the way, there will be another excellent patch this morning on the "Help Improve WW1" section

[Provolution]

Not the "release", the *game*. Noone added the fact that in 3 weeks time 90% of the problems are fixed, and the manual will come soon also. What remains is a very deep, interesting and historical game (something that Paradox never really managed to do btw :neener , and there's just *no* hint of that in the reviews.

There is even a blatant erroneous statement in one of the "reviews", who states that "8 playable nations (and all the other features along) " are "lies" and that there is only 4 playable nations. But there IS 8 playable nations !
This one at least should be removed.

Blatant and blatant.... There is no more than 4 separate players (grand campaign) that can play at once. Italy and Great Britain, as well as Turkey are only involved later as secondary nations. Its ok to be loyal to AGEOD and all that, but trash talking honest reviewers with corporate propaganda is a bit third worldish, but that could be why I am from a place cooler heads prevail (the far north).

[Rafiki]

[color="Blue"]Come on, let's keep things civil; there are a lot of good points being made here; let's not bog down into characterizing eachother's postings rather than discussing them [/color]

[Sean E]

Basically people are going to review what they saw in the game.
Not what it will or might become.
And what they saw was a buggy beta release.

[Alan_Bernardo]

Basically people are going to review what they saw in the game.
Not what it will or might become.
And what they saw was a buggy beta release.

No doubt about that. The game is buggy, sluggish, and arcane in the absence of a comprehensive manual.

To expect anything else from reviewers than the honest truth is like expecting to live in Ohio and see snow in July.

Still happy that I bought the game because I know there will be huge improvements down the line, it's pretty obvious that another six months should have been spent in preparing the game for release, instead of releasing it on Armistice Day. I mean, aren't there other important dates related to WWI?

Easter is a nice holiday.


Alan

[Provolution]

[color="Blue"]Come on, let's keep things civil; there are a lot of good points being made here; let's not bog down into characterizing eachother's postings rather than discussing them [/color]

I am sorry for my outburst, I just cannot stomach fanatic fanboys that act out their Gestapo ways just in order to cuddle the developers for small handouts in terms of better access to change the game patches itself. If the game is broken, its broken. Yet, the game has great potential, that is also said.
I am also happy new patches come by the day. The bottom line is, that this early release has deservedly forced the AGEOD executives to eat a few bullets, and hopefully they learnt from it. Being a fanboy does not add to that needed learning curve in terms of improving for the next time.

[Rafiki]

Using terms like "fanatic fanboys" and "Gestapo ways" is unnecessarily confrontational and a sure-fire way to derail this entire discussion/thread. PDF expressed his disagreement with in particular one of the reviews at Gamer's Gate over an interpretation of the game's setup; I don't see how that makes him a "fanatic fanboy" and I can assure you that suggesting that a review be deleted (I'd prefer to see it edited in cooperation with the original author to clarify things, but that's just me) is a bit shy of what the Gestapo was up to when they were around.

I also believe that things may be getting lost in translation here; it's evident that you are putting different meanings into what constitutes a "playable nation" and I'm sad to see that you are assuming ill will here. Can't a guy post a Hun-smiley around here without getting slammed for barbarism?

In any case, feel free to disagree with other posters say around here; you are even welcome to express that disagreement, especially if you take the time to express why so that others can either disagree in turn themselves or take it into account in their own opinions in an informed manner. [color="Blue"]What isn't acceptable is taking the "easy" way out by trying to "win" (using the term "win" loosely here) a discussion by pinning unfavorable characterizations onto other posters.[/color]

[Massu]

Friends,
I've lurked this forum since WWI was a glimmer in Ageod's proverbial eye and I'm a bit dismayed by what I see here. I own BOA and ACW however I have not purchased WWI yet due to all the trouble I see reported here.
Phil, it seems to me very poor form to ask your costumers to behave as if they are your personal army and I think this "call to arms" of yours is a stain on Ageod's excellent reputation in the wargaming community. You imply that the people that gave negative reviews didn't know what they were talking about but what makes you think that? If that is what they experienced, that is what they experienced. This is simply denial on your part. Keep in mind that I mean no offense when I say this, but your customers are not your personal army.
Furthermore, it seems that a lack of oversight from the beginning is the problem here. Calvinus, from his posts, seems completely overwhelmed with his workload and at times frantic. How did this situation come to pass? To what degree were you involved in this project Phil? What about the rest of the Ageod staff? I ask this because it seems odd that Calvinus is working like a Stakonovite on this project while the rest sit back and remind posters again and again that it's his project.
I do not, however, entirely wish to absolve Calvinus either. Why was this title released in such a state? How on earth could an Ageod game ship without a manual? What was the thought process behind that decision? Does anyone even know the answer to these questions? Surely someone must. I doubt the WWI project was a "train off the rails" in the same sense that the war itself was! I'm merely seeking information.
In the future, and please do not interpret this as condescension, do not call upon anyone to defend your work for you. It reflects very poorly. Instead, do not allow work that attracts such a response to see the light of day! This is surely not always possible, so in the event that it does occur, such as now, apologize, move forward, and fix it. Reviews on Gamersgate will not crush sales entirely and the wargaming community is not a fickle one as we have so little to choose from in the first place.

[PhilThib]

Thanks for your reply and comments

I would like to say that I personnaly consider that you are right on most of the key points raised.

You may know that I have already clearly stated my apology on most points above, and offered to compensate customers who felt unsatisfied, notably by refunding them, and I have not waited weeks, months (or even never) to do so...
In addition, I believe our team has done the best of efforts to correct most problems, and those players who have been supporting us on the game have really seen the improvement.

You might know also that business life is not always as simple as it seems. To cut a long story short, the game was signed since long time, and there were contracts that made an obligation for us to deliver the game on a certain timing. Ageod is too small a company with limited means to afford a court case for breach(es)...

That we made a mess of this is obvious Now,

* Technical difficults were in some case difficult to prevent (rate of 'failure' for technical matters on this game is 0.8%, even if those 0.8% were voiced strongly )... a team of 4 can't spend the time or the budget to test hundreds of PC configs...we did the most common, and missed the point here...
* Manual is delayed because the person in charge could not deliver and we were caught off guard...here again, my mistake, I should have been more careful...I paid the price of giving my trust too easily... I am now spending all my time working on this too

In my mind there was no idea to ask the players go and defend blindly the game on Gamersgate. I mentionned to everybody's attention something I find regrettable which is, in that case, the impossibility to present one's own defense...

I just asked for the application of a simple basic democratic principle, the right to answer and express one's opinion... I respect the opinion of those who criticize (and I repeat, rightly), I am just saying a fair hearing must be given in reciprocity too.... and this is what Gamersgate rules did not allow directly...

To be clear, the rules there could be circumvented and be tricked. It's easy for a publisher / developper to buy it's own game there, then do a 'positive' review under an alias for instance ... something I hate to see, and that's why even if I believe it is necessary to present one's own defense, I'll never do it myself... what I said was simple: "If you bought it there and you liked it, tell it please!"... but 'your call' !

Probably if I had written the request in my own language, I would have not mishandled this badly

Have a good day

Philippe Thibaut

[Massu]

Phil,
It's always a pleasure to be disarmed by a friendly, forthright response. You do the industry a great credit. I understand your annoyance with Gamersgate not permitting you to answer the critics, but if you think about it, a reply from someone financially interested in the product would probably be ignored by 90% of the buyers. On the topic of designers posing as customers and posting positive reviews I completely agree. They should be shot for treason.
In any event I'm going to keep a very close eye on WWI. I've never had the opportunity to game it because it just doesn't lend itself as easily to wargaming as, say, the Korsun-Cherkassy Pocket or Gettysburg. I appreciate the level of detail and immersion Ageod is trying to achieve with this title and I'll make it a point to buy a copy when I feel personally satisfied with its condition. I also await Vain Glory with bated breath.

[PDF]

I am sorry for my outburst, I just cannot stomach fanatic fanboys that act out their Gestapo ways just in order to cuddle the developers for small handouts in terms of better access to change the game patches itself. If the game is broken, its broken. Yet, the game has great potential, that is also said.
I am also happy new patches come by the day. The bottom line is, that this early release has deservedly forced the AGEOD executives to eat a few bullets, and hopefully they learnt from it. Being a fanboy does not add to that needed learning curve in terms of improving for the next time.

Seems I have a right to reply here.
Where are you heading ?
"Fanboy" ? Because I dismiss a 3-lines "review" by a guy that says "blatant lies" to all features as he misinterpreted what a "playable" nation is ?
And "Gestapo" ways ? Keep serious words for serious matters please. I don't even understand your reasoning behind my objectives("handout" blah blah..), and really don't need any handout.
And your paraphrase to say something then its contrary isn't very clear neither. Eventually, either you were just venting, or please clarify...

[PhilThib]

Gentlemen,

Please cool off. No need to use harsh words. I appreciate both sides point of views, and for me as of now, the matter is closed.

We did a mistake and appreciated it, learning the lessons. Those who made excessive or one-sided comments are in the own right... and probably may also have to eat their own bullets one day or the other too, who knows...like most of us

Let's stop here please. Thanks

[Clovis]

The game was released a month ago. What are the remaining bugs? Some affecting the rules enforcment, like in any games. Some improvments for rules are certainly necessary, like in any other games. AI needs some tweaks, like in any other games. A complete manual is expected but by collecting all tips on this forum, the boardgame rules, and the parts of the future manual, most of the engine is understandable. Some remains obscure, like in almost any other game.

But, to the digfference of many other games, the most glaring shortcomming, stability bugs and other REAL annoying defaults are gone in the first months. for some other game publisher, it needs one...year...

[TheGreatRadish]

I have to admit that I bought the game from Amazon (Ascaron version) at £17.95 (as opposed to ~£30 bought directly from Ageod/Matrix). Normally I wouldn't bother about paying the extra to buy directly from you guys but the negativity after the release meant that I kind of had to go for the cheaper option.

Well, I needn't have bothered - the game arrived with me this morning and I spent a very enjoyable day with it and it's no exaggeration to say that this is the most that I have enjoyed a newly bought game for a very long time. It's really captured my imagination and I'm completely immersed.

I'm impressed - I have never bought an Ageod game before. Yes, I know this is a different engine/dev team but this game has brought me to the Ageod community and I like what I see. I will certainly be buying BOA2 after I have finished reading 'A few bloody noses' by Robert Harvey. The demo is good

It's a shame that WW1 is suffering a difficult infancy but hopefully the incredibly hard work being put in will see that this title becomes the classic WW1 strategy game and a 'second wave' of enthusiasts will come forward.

[PDF]

The game was released a month ago. What are the remaining bugs? Some affecting the rules enforcment, like in any games. Some improvments for rules are certainly necessary, like in any other games. AI needs some tweaks, like in any other games. A complete manual is expected but by collecting all tips on this forum, the boardgame rules, and the parts of the future manual, most of the engine is understandable. Some remains obscure, like in almost any other game.

But, to the digfference of many other games, the most glaring shortcomming, stability bugs and other REAL annoying defaults are gone in the first months. for some other game publisher, it needs one...year...

Ah, Gestapo is back through the window, using snake tongue now ! Just kidding...

[Alan_Bernardo]

The game was released a month ago. What are the remaining bugs? Some affecting the rules enforcment, like in any games. Some improvments for rules are certainly necessary, like in any other games. AI needs some tweaks, like in any other games. A complete manual is expected but by collecting all tips on this forum, the boardgame rules, and the parts of the future manual, most of the engine is understandable. Some remains obscure, like in almost any other game.

But, to the digfference of many other games, the most glaring shortcomming, stability bugs and other REAL annoying defaults are gone in the first months. for some other game publisher, it needs one...year...

Bugs happened and bugs can be quashed. What I'm concerned most about now is the sluggishness of the game. The game runs terribly slow, and my system is pretty new.


Alan

[Nial]

Well, I just bought the game a few days ago and am eagerly awaiting it's arrival. I understand the angst of some here, but have paid close attention to these boards in the days prior to my purchase as well as since.

I am not going to say that a dissapointed customer shouldn't be dissapointed. Each must express his/her opinion as they see fit as long as it is within the bounds of civility. I am certainly not going to absolve AGEOD and company of the mistakes that were made. It is not my job nor my wish to do so.

What I will say is that in buying and playing games for close on twenty years I have never heard a developer ( big or small ) truthfully acknowledge this kind of mistake and go about setting it right with the kind of speed and humility that AGEOD has exhibited in this whole trying affair.

I have bought the game and am looking forward to having another great wargaming experience brought to me by the makers of some of the best wargames I've ever played.

Now where is my NC full campaign? *laugh*

Nial