Help! Why is Belgian Army isolated?

[Chris Ferrous]

I thought I was getting the hang of this game by now (1 month's experience) but for the life of me I cannot see why the Belgian HQ is designated as isolated.

It resides in Liege, a friendly major city and fort, and has rail links to Antwerp another major city, port and fortress.

What's happening and what can I do to alleviate this position?

The snapshot is in supply map view.

[Chris Ferrous]

Compare the Belgian situation with that around Konigsberg where the German VIII Army has been hanging on in a similar situation to that shown in the snapshot below for nearly a year!

The German HQ has access to Konigberg, a major city and port backed by a friendly sea (as is Antwerp for the Belgians) but a much bigger sized force is involved than at Liege. Not once has it been tagged as unsupplied or isolated and yet its position looks just as bad ifnot worse than the Belgian situation.

Also, the unit in Memel seems to be self supporting as it is entirely cut-off except from the sea?

I'm sure I've managed to miss something that should be obvious when I read the supply rules but I'm at a loss. Would someone be able to explain please?

[Random]

Just a wild-guess but Koenigsburg is a port adjacent to German controlled seas whereas the Belgians in Liege have no access to the Entente at all because neutral Holland is in the way. Note that the seas adjacent to Antwerp are Dutch controlled and therefore impassable for isolation test purposes.

As I understand it, the Germans in Koenigsburg will not be isolated and have limited supply (due to the minor port) while the Belgians can draw limited supply from Liege but will still be isolated.

For sure someone will be along who knows more than I though.

Ivan looks like he's having fun in East Prussia though! Well done!

[Chris Ferrous]

Hi Random. I dare say you are correct, especially since the Dutch control the Sheldt estuary even though they're neutral, but these are the defined supply sources taken directly from the manual.

9.1 Definitions of a Supply Source
When referring to a relay, an R is used. For a country, supply sources and
their relays are:

● The capital of a Major, friendly power. [color="Red"]Agreed isolated from Brussels and the rest of the Western Front. [/color]

● A friendly city or town linked by rail, major river or sea to another
friendly city. [color="red"]Surely Liege and Antwerp are linked by a currently unblocked rail route. Agreed it won't be that way for long but currently it is open so why the isolation?[/color]

● Friendly railways connected to a friendly source (See C below). (R)[color="red"]Fulfilled also?[/color]

● A major port linked to friendly ports through open seas. Minor ports
supply 1 army only (see below) [color="Red"]No good. Antwerp has no access.[/color]

● Major rivers linking friendly cities or ports, unless one of the shores is
under enemy control. (R) [color="red"]Not applicable.
[/color]
● A country’s HQ (and certain friendly HQs if they may cooperate) if
they find themselves in a 2-region range from a valid supply source or
relay. However, this HQ may only act as a relay for 1 HQ (no further
HQs may be added to this link). (R) [color="red"]Not applicable.
[/color]
● The same for GHQ. (R) [color="red"]Not applicable.
[/color]
● A fortress is always in supply along with its garrison corps. It may
supply one corps outside of its own garrison (and only in its own
region).[color="red"]By now the Belgian Army consists of only two Corps plus the garrisons of which Antwerp and Liege are in this 'isolated pocket'. So one of the organic Corps must surely be supplied from Liege itself?
[/color]

● A city (not a town) is a supply source for 1 corps in its region only,
even if it is isolated.<< [color="red"]As above really.[/color]

[color="red"]So it all boils down to why do Anrwerp and Liege, major cities linked by rail, NOT qualify as a supply source?[/color]

[color="Black"]Would be very interested in an explanation. Thanks in advance.[/color]

[Chris Ferrous]

Forgot to mention that the Belgian situation has arisen only this turn, i.e. last turn it wasn't even out of supply, and it has resulted because a German Army has approached Ghent and thus cut the land route from Antwerp to the BEF.

Again comparing this with the situation in East Prussia: the Russian II Army cut a corridor to the sea west of Konigsberg as early as September 1914 thus separating the German VIII Army from Germany proper. This situation pertained thereafter with the corridor being widened until now, June 1915, and yet the German Army has never been tagged as out of supply let alone as isolated.

Looking at the PrussianHQ image above it seems to me that Konigsberg is only a minor port and therefore should only be able to supply one Army (hence Memel I guess is OK with its single occupant Corps), and yet there seem to be several (3?). Oh, of course, they'll all be decoys? Actually, no, because I had a Fog of War breaking espionage event only last turn and there were units from more than one Army present.

Certainly the German pocket doesn't contain connected railways connecting its 3 towns so it shouldn't qualify as an unlimited supply source.

So, my conclusion is that Memel should be able to support one Corps indefinitely, but any more than one Army in the Konigsberg pocket should be labelled as isolated. Agree anyone?

[Random]

Based on my reading I would say that the German's in Koenigsburg do not meet the isolation test but most units outside Koenigsburg (XII Army should be ok under 9.1.1 Bullet 3) and all except one corps Loetzen and Memel should be out of supply one would think.

In the Belgian case I suggest Antwerp is irrelevant to the situation since, as a fortress, it cannot supply outside its region and does not otherwise count as a supply source. Also it's not entirely clear what happens to a fortress if its garrison has been removed or destroyed, can it only supply one corps (as per 9.1 Bullet 8)?

For what it's worth in the 1915 scenario the British VI Army starts isolated in Mesopotamia due to the desert and the Tigris River (I assume) even though the path to the minor port of Basra is clear of enemy forces. Stupid Townshend.

The supply/isolation rules could certainly be clearer but the isolation test seem pretty conventional for a wargame.

Is the supply/isolation state of AI units always visible to the active player?

Is it even possible to have one unit in a detachment or a stack out of supply and the other(s) in supply? If so, have never seen it.

Hmmmm...

[Chris Ferrous]

I've always played with Fog of War on but even then by using Ctrl-S the supply route wagonwheel shows up for both friendly and enemy units (that you know exist of course). Units that are isolated (like the Belgian HQ apparently) show no wagonwheel graphic. So no help from that source in Belgium.

My view is that Antwerp and Liege are BOTH BOTH fortesses and major cities. So the fortress supplies its own zone true, but two rail connected cities should surely qualify as a supply source?

Now in Prussia using Ctrl-S produces the following diagrams - see attached screenshot.

1. The tip of the pocket at Loetzen (Gumbingen shows the same) simply shows a single pink line to Konigsberg. I believe this indicates a supply line to a supply source. Memel, and this is the clue to what's happening, also shows a single pink line (not shown here) to Konigsberg when selected (I suppose it's 2 controlled sea regions away?).

2. So, how does Konigsberg do it? It's a relay of course, with a sea link to the major port of Danzig 2 sea regions away and it has a second minor port in Memel. Thus Memel and Konigsberg seem to be behaving as a mutually available second minor port (a bit tenuous I think!). But to a computer the logic is unassailable.

Looks like the Russian fleet better intervene? I don't know if the two sea region supply line limit exists over sea as it does over land?

As for Belgium, I suppose the only option is for Britain to launch a Grand Offensive immediately with the objective of taking Mechelin and its railway junction SW of Antwerp. That should allow the Belgian Army to survive. Failing that maybe I should station one each of its Corps in Liege and Antwerp. Either way we'll fight on!

BTW: the Germans are so concerned about Konigsberg it seems, that they offered a separate peace to Russia this turn! I declined for the benefit of my French allies of course. What a game!

[Chris Ferrous]

So, back in Belgium, I successfully attack Mechelin with British 2nd Army and regain a land route to Antwerp and beyond there to Liege thus resupplying the Belgian HQ. See attached pic.

Well having driven out the German units I thought that would be the case but it seems another German unit has meanwhile passed through Louvain east of Brussels and laid siege to Antwerp.

Looking at the supply wagonwheel now, the Belgian Army in Liege IS indeed retreived from isolation and is back in supply.

But I have to ask, why is the Belgian Army's position better than it was before? German units now sit astride the Antwerp-Liege railway which I had thought critical to supplying Liege and yet there's a pink supply line drawn directly between Liege and Antwerp? There wasn't one previously when there were no German units in the Antwerp district.

So now I really am confused!

[Random]

Actually from where I sit, what you're seeing makes military sense on the scale of WW1G. The reality of the siege of Antwerp was that the siege perimeter was never entirely sealed and units could and did escape overland, thereby passing the communications test required for isolation. Since the siege is still in progress, the Antwerp region still belongs to Belgium and so allows the BEF to foward crumpets and French postcards to Liege via dog-cart bypassing those nasty besiegers entirely.

If Antwerp falls, expect the isolation to kick in for embattled King Albert again but it also looks like you have a small window of opportunity to recapture Louvain and isolate Fritz's besieging force.

I think it's working as designed and entirely reasonable all things considered. Just my $0.02 CAD.

Note too that the Germans are already at Trench Level 1 and you're not. That always sucks when on the offensive!

[Chris Ferrous]

Ok, I agree with that.

I suppose though my original question remains, why was the Belgian Army isolated last turn? Then there was no doubt at all about the integrity of the Antwerp-Liege Railway and Louvain was still Belgian, although the Germans had Mechelin.

It seems, as you rightly describe, that the Antwerp region is still traversible for supplies because of the beseiged fortress, and thus a land route now exists to the general Western Front again.

Anyway the situation has improved further with the recapture of Brussels and Namur! I'll attach a picture next time I'm in game.