Dear all,
I'm new to WWI Gold having always been fascinated by the conflict (in fact I'm currently reading William Philpott's excellent "Bloody Victory"), but I had also noticed a dearth of PC games representing it.
Now, I've dabbled with the more 'hardcore' side of PC gaming with titles like "Napoleon's Campaigns" and "War in the Pacific", and I've always had the same issue: it takes a lot of commitment to get to grips with them, and it usually requires hours of manual reading (which I find unpleasant on a monitor).
I have played more than once the first two tutorial scenarios in WWI, which give a decent flavour of the mechanics, but having then tried several times the two 'smaller' scenarios, Tannenberg and Serbia, I find myself unable to win and moreover find myself at a loss as to what I am supposed to be doing strategically.
I am working my way through the exhaustive manual, but I can't find a guide for the more basic army or two versus army or two scenarios, from which I can then build into the larger scenarios.
I have also searched this forum for a guide or walkthrough such as someone very helpfully did for Napoleon's Campaigns - someone explaining: "Now you need to do this, because this means that..., and then don't forget to check this number, because it's impotant for the following reasons...".
You get the point, I hope!
Now, to specifics on the Serbia scenario, which I have played most (from both sides):
SPOILER:
As Serbia, I have tried attacking the AH armies besieging Belgrade and have also tried to lure their other two armies onto mine in favourable territory. I've even tried to take Sarajevo, in order to draw their forces away from Belgrade!
I have tried keeping the two separate army detachments that the scenario starts with, and I've also tried merging them during the first redeployment phase, in order to maximise firepower against an overwhelming AH force.
Whatever I do, the best I've managed is a draw on several occasions, with AH always receiving a couple of stars in the victory screen.
Could someone please give me a few tips on how to wiin this scenario, so that I can understand the basics of WWI strategy at this scale. I hope then to be able to elevate this knowledge to tackling the larger scenarios (added to a lot more manual reading and tutorial playing, of course!).
Many thanks in advance for your help!
R
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montgommel
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Perhaps this helps. It is the boardgame scenario victory conditions, so it can be a little different from the PC game:
I. Victory :
• The Victory criterion of the Austrian is based on conquest: Belgrade, the Serbian cities and towns and the railway to Bulgaria.
• Austria : Serbian HQ destroyed +3 VP ; then +2 VP for Belgrade, Skopje, Cetinje, and +1 VP for Uzice, Novi Pazar, Pozarevac, Nish, Monastir, and +3 VP if all the railway to Bulgaria is controlled.
• If the Austro-Hungarian II army is fighting against Serbia, it suffers a negative effect of -3 VP (this has a very bad effect on the Russian Front).
• If the two Serbian cities and Cetinje are taken, this is a Decisive Victory for Austria-Hungary.
• Serbia : Austrian HQ destroyed -3 VP ; then -2 VP Sarajevo ; and -1 VP Cattaro, Mostar and Korlowitz.
• Otherwise, victory depends on the VP :
[ 7+ ] Major Victory [ 0-1 ] Minor Defeat
[ 5-6 ] Minor Victory [ < 0 ] Major Defeat
[ 2-4 ] Draw
• There cannot be a Decisive Victory for Serbia.
As serbian, you must play to defend. Your army is better than the 2 or 3 austrians and you have more PR so you can flip nearly all damaged units, so you can retreat a bit and eliminate austrian units attacking the detachments and be in position to conquer Belgrade the last turn (in the first one is sure you are going to loss the city).
I'll give a try and tell you more, but it is dificult even a minor victory with the serbs.
I. Victory :
• The Victory criterion of the Austrian is based on conquest: Belgrade, the Serbian cities and towns and the railway to Bulgaria.
• Austria : Serbian HQ destroyed +3 VP ; then +2 VP for Belgrade, Skopje, Cetinje, and +1 VP for Uzice, Novi Pazar, Pozarevac, Nish, Monastir, and +3 VP if all the railway to Bulgaria is controlled.
• If the Austro-Hungarian II army is fighting against Serbia, it suffers a negative effect of -3 VP (this has a very bad effect on the Russian Front).
• If the two Serbian cities and Cetinje are taken, this is a Decisive Victory for Austria-Hungary.
• Serbia : Austrian HQ destroyed -3 VP ; then -2 VP Sarajevo ; and -1 VP Cattaro, Mostar and Korlowitz.
• Otherwise, victory depends on the VP :
[ 7+ ] Major Victory [ 0-1 ] Minor Defeat
[ 5-6 ] Minor Victory [ < 0 ] Major Defeat
[ 2-4 ] Draw
• There cannot be a Decisive Victory for Serbia.
As serbian, you must play to defend. Your army is better than the 2 or 3 austrians and you have more PR so you can flip nearly all damaged units, so you can retreat a bit and eliminate austrian units attacking the detachments and be in position to conquer Belgrade the last turn (in the first one is sure you are going to loss the city).
I'll give a try and tell you more, but it is dificult even a minor victory with the serbs.
SPOILER:
Many thanks, Montgommel.
I tried the defensive strategy, attempting to utilise good defensive terrain (mountains, forests, etc.), but perhaps I am doing something wrong in the actual combats.
Usually I combine the 1st army detachment with the HQ, in order to maximise firepower. Is that a good approach, or is it better to have two separate forces (even if the detachment is relatively weak)?
I do not use the "Battle Adviser" and usually deploy 3 infantry units and commit the best one first. I have some successes, but it never seems to be enough to get me anything better than a draw.
I don't know how best to use the cavalry - if employed as a screening force, how does this work? Is it worth utilising cavalry for breakthroughs, which I've tried, but I never seem to break through!
Once the units in the south west are reinforced, I usually move on Sarajevo, but I don't know how to actually take the city - it says I control the region but AH still owns it (I will read the manual about owning/controlling regions).
Another silly question: how do you actually destroy an HQ?
I'll be interested to see how it plays out with you, because I have doubts about both my strategy and about how best to use my units in combat.
Once again, thanks for your reply and sorry for not having remembered from the manual where the victory conditions are listed!
R
montgommel wrote:Perhaps this helps. It is the boardgame scenario victory conditions, so it can be a little different from the PC game:
I. Victory :
• The Victory criterion of the Austrian is based on conquest: Belgrade, the Serbian cities and towns and the railway to Bulgaria.
• Austria : Serbian HQ destroyed +3 VP ; then +2 VP for Belgrade, Skopje, Cetinje, and +1 VP for Uzice, Novi Pazar, Pozarevac, Nish, Monastir, and +3 VP if all the railway to Bulgaria is controlled.
• If the Austro-Hungarian II army is fighting against Serbia, it suffers a negative effect of -3 VP (this has a very bad effect on the Russian Front).
• If the two Serbian cities and Cetinje are taken, this is a Decisive Victory for Austria-Hungary.
• Serbia : Austrian HQ destroyed -3 VP ; then -2 VP Sarajevo ; and -1 VP Cattaro, Mostar and Korlowitz.
• Otherwise, victory depends on the VP :
[ 7+ ] Major Victory [ 0-1 ] Minor Defeat
[ 5-6 ] Minor Victory [ < 0 ] Major Defeat
[ 2-4 ] Draw
• There cannot be a Decisive Victory for Serbia.
As serbian, you must play to defend. Your army is better than the 2 or 3 austrians and you have more PR so you can flip nearly all damaged units, so you can retreat a bit and eliminate austrian units attacking the detachments and be in position to conquer Belgrade the last turn (in the first one is sure you are going to loss the city).
I'll give a try and tell you more, but it is dificult even a minor victory with the serbs.
Many thanks, Montgommel.
I tried the defensive strategy, attempting to utilise good defensive terrain (mountains, forests, etc.), but perhaps I am doing something wrong in the actual combats.
Usually I combine the 1st army detachment with the HQ, in order to maximise firepower. Is that a good approach, or is it better to have two separate forces (even if the detachment is relatively weak)?
I do not use the "Battle Adviser" and usually deploy 3 infantry units and commit the best one first. I have some successes, but it never seems to be enough to get me anything better than a draw.
I don't know how best to use the cavalry - if employed as a screening force, how does this work? Is it worth utilising cavalry for breakthroughs, which I've tried, but I never seem to break through!
Once the units in the south west are reinforced, I usually move on Sarajevo, but I don't know how to actually take the city - it says I control the region but AH still owns it (I will read the manual about owning/controlling regions).
Another silly question: how do you actually destroy an HQ?
I'll be interested to see how it plays out with you, because I have doubts about both my strategy and about how best to use my units in combat.
Once again, thanks for your reply and sorry for not having remembered from the manual where the victory conditions are listed!
R
Russkly wrote:I don't know how best to use the cavalry - if employed as a screening force, how does this work? Is it worth utilising cavalry for breakthroughs, which I've tried, but I never seem to break through!
Cavalry units are a good choice in plain terrain. Also, they usually have a Veteran morale level, so they keep hard in morale checks.
Breakthrough on mountain areas are quite difficult. Anyway be sure you have selected the breakthrough area.
Russkly wrote:Once the units in the south west are reinforced, I usually move on Sarajevo, but I don't know how to actually take the city - it says I control the region but AH still owns it (I will read the manual about owning/controlling regions).
Entering the area is enough. You will see the Serbian flag close to the name of the town. That means the area is under Serbian control, even if owned by Austria. After one turn of military occupation, the ownership moves to Serbia. So be careful with control and ownlership...
Russkly wrote:Another silly question: how do you actually destroy an HQ?
Prolonged isolation (2 turns).
Thx, Calvinus; great support.
Would you include cavalry within an army then, and commit them in battles like any other corps unit, or use them as a detachment in the same region as the 'main' force or indeed in a different region? If used thus, do they act as a screening force, to allow the main force to engage or disengage as desired?
I'll get there, but it's a hugely detailed game that will take time to get to grips with - once I've got the hang of the 'small' scenarios (would you recommend any other than Tannenberg and Serbia?), I'll then learn about army activation and coordination, grand offensives, diplomacy, technology, etc.
Fortunate that I've just given up my job!
I'll look up isolation in the manual, but I imagine it involves detaching units from an army, in order to cut off supply/retreat routes.
Anyway, thanks again, Calvinus.
R
Would you include cavalry within an army then, and commit them in battles like any other corps unit, or use them as a detachment in the same region as the 'main' force or indeed in a different region? If used thus, do they act as a screening force, to allow the main force to engage or disengage as desired?
I'll get there, but it's a hugely detailed game that will take time to get to grips with - once I've got the hang of the 'small' scenarios (would you recommend any other than Tannenberg and Serbia?), I'll then learn about army activation and coordination, grand offensives, diplomacy, technology, etc.
Fortunate that I've just given up my job!
I'll look up isolation in the manual, but I imagine it involves detaching units from an army, in order to cut off supply/retreat routes.
Anyway, thanks again, Calvinus.
R
Russkly wrote:Would you include cavalry within an army then, and commit them in battles like any other corps unit, or use them as a detachment in the same region as the 'main' force or indeed in a different region? If used thus, do they act as a screening force, to allow the main force to engage or disengage as desired?
If you create cavalry detachments (stacks composed only by cavalry), yes we can have a sort of cavalry screen. This is particularly useful for Russians (cossacks) on the East Front, that is considerably wider than the West one.
You can use this cavalry screen provided you put a good number of (infantry?) corps and artillery in the army reserves, of course. But be careful with the range of command/intervent. If the cavalry screen is too far from the HQ, forget to call your reserves!
Back to breakthrough, remember that only reserve units can be used for breakthroughs!!! So a reason why you failed to have breakthroughs is probably because you called all units from reserves...
Russkly wrote:I'll look up isolation in the manual, but I imagine it involves detaching units from an army, in order to cut off supply/retreat routes.
Isolation is something worse than out-of-supply.
Stacks are out of supply if not within the 3 areas range from a supply source or relay.
Instead they are isolated if not within the 5 areas range...
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montgommel
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I played yesterday the Serbian scenario and I did:
- Played aggresively with the serbian first army and try to disable the austrian armies one by one.
- Serbian army is very powerful due to the two attack stars of his leader and because the high morale of his units and the high PR flow that allows to recover all the loses of the previous turn.
After the first austrian turn, I left the austrian army sieging Belgrade alone, and attacked the other austrian army so after the battle this army were in bad shape for two turns.
Tactically, in combat, I use first the not damaged units and after all are damaged use the one with high morale. This is IWW: losses are high (even in movement doctrine) and the more important factor are the morale, D12 modifiers (fire, attack stars) and attack/defense values in this order (the combat table is very similar in the +/-2 columns which is where you usually are without using artillery. It is more important to have a +2 to the D12 in the 0 column than no modifiers in the +2 column) so it is an attrition game (and due to this the morale flag is the most important factor in combat because allows you to stand in the battle and not suffer bad effects like elimination, out-of-combat, ..).
Strategically, more important than which unit you are using (in this case all serbian units are similar) is the PR pool (it is shown in a battle in next to a simple man chest silouette above/bellow the leader). When this number reaches 0, the corps starts to be eliminated as there is no way of replacing loses (this pool is refilled at the start of the turn).
The best way of reducing PR is attacking and atacking (specially damaged units because any bad result means one less PR), so you must make long combats waiting for the austrians to commit the damaged units (moreover due to the low morale of some units some of them can be out of combat in the first rounds, so more rotation to the units left.
Another important thing in this game is make proper things in the proper phase: you MUST not forget to recover damaged units in the Replacement phase (the one before military phase). As serbia you must track all the damaged units in your army and flip to the undamaged face (clicking on the button with two opposite arrows). Thus, your units are stronger and last longer (at least 4 or 5 combat rounds before you have to commit damaged units).
I think the best way to play as serbs is to have the forces together near Belgrade and try to eliminate austrian armies one by one and in the last turn retake Belgrade. With this tactic, reserve is not very important and cavalry can be used mora as an scout or as a quick-long range weapon to try to take Sarajevo or cut the austrian railroad north of Belgrade.
Now the bad news, tonight I followed this strategy: I didn't loss any combat (only one corps eliminated) or any city. Belgrade was lost and then retaken in the Oct turn (austrians conquered only two non-city/town hexes in all serb after 4 months of war, austrian used IInd Army (-3 VP), the game ended with 2 points (stars) and the title stated Central Powers minor victory. So, something is not good in this tactic or the VP/victory calculation is not correct. Calvinus?
- Played aggresively with the serbian first army and try to disable the austrian armies one by one.
- Serbian army is very powerful due to the two attack stars of his leader and because the high morale of his units and the high PR flow that allows to recover all the loses of the previous turn.
After the first austrian turn, I left the austrian army sieging Belgrade alone, and attacked the other austrian army so after the battle this army were in bad shape for two turns.
Tactically, in combat, I use first the not damaged units and after all are damaged use the one with high morale. This is IWW: losses are high (even in movement doctrine) and the more important factor are the morale, D12 modifiers (fire, attack stars) and attack/defense values in this order (the combat table is very similar in the +/-2 columns which is where you usually are without using artillery. It is more important to have a +2 to the D12 in the 0 column than no modifiers in the +2 column) so it is an attrition game (and due to this the morale flag is the most important factor in combat because allows you to stand in the battle and not suffer bad effects like elimination, out-of-combat, ..).
Strategically, more important than which unit you are using (in this case all serbian units are similar) is the PR pool (it is shown in a battle in next to a simple man chest silouette above/bellow the leader). When this number reaches 0, the corps starts to be eliminated as there is no way of replacing loses (this pool is refilled at the start of the turn).
The best way of reducing PR is attacking and atacking (specially damaged units because any bad result means one less PR), so you must make long combats waiting for the austrians to commit the damaged units (moreover due to the low morale of some units some of them can be out of combat in the first rounds, so more rotation to the units left.
Another important thing in this game is make proper things in the proper phase: you MUST not forget to recover damaged units in the Replacement phase (the one before military phase). As serbia you must track all the damaged units in your army and flip to the undamaged face (clicking on the button with two opposite arrows). Thus, your units are stronger and last longer (at least 4 or 5 combat rounds before you have to commit damaged units).
I think the best way to play as serbs is to have the forces together near Belgrade and try to eliminate austrian armies one by one and in the last turn retake Belgrade. With this tactic, reserve is not very important and cavalry can be used mora as an scout or as a quick-long range weapon to try to take Sarajevo or cut the austrian railroad north of Belgrade.
Now the bad news, tonight I followed this strategy: I didn't loss any combat (only one corps eliminated) or any city. Belgrade was lost and then retaken in the Oct turn (austrians conquered only two non-city/town hexes in all serb after 4 months of war, austrian used IInd Army (-3 VP), the game ended with 2 points (stars) and the title stated Central Powers minor victory. So, something is not good in this tactic or the VP/victory calculation is not correct. Calvinus?
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montgommel
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montgommel wrote:I played yesterday the Serbian scenario and I did:
- Played aggresively with the serbian first army and try to disable the austrian armies one by one.
- Serbian army is very powerful due to the two attack stars of his leader and because the high morale of his units and the high PR flow that allows to recover all the loses of the previous turn.
After the first austrian turn, I left the austrian army sieging Belgrade alone, and attacked the other austrian army so after the battle this army were in bad shape for two turns.
Tactically, in combat, I use first the not damaged units and after all are damaged use the one with high morale. This is IWW: losses are high (even in movement doctrine) and the more important factor are the morale, D12 modifiers (fire, attack stars) and attack/defense values in this order (the combat table is very similar in the +/-2 columns which is where you usually are without using artillery. It is more important to have a +2 to the D12 in the 0 column than no modifiers in the +2 column) so it is an attrition game (and due to this the morale flag is the most important factor in combat because allows you to stand in the battle and not suffer bad effects like elimination, out-of-combat, ..).
Strategically, more important than which unit you are using (in this case all serbian units are similar) is the PR pool (it is shown in a battle in next to a simple man chest silouette above/bellow the leader). When this number reaches 0, the corps starts to be eliminated as there is no way of replacing loses (this pool is refilled at the start of the turn).
The best way of reducing PR is attacking and atacking (specially damaged units because any bad result means one less PR), so you must make long combats waiting for the austrians to commit the damaged units (moreover due to the low morale of some units some of them can be out of combat in the first rounds, so more rotation to the units left.
Another important thing in this game is make proper things in the proper phase: you MUST not forget to recover damaged units in the Replacement phase (the one before military phase). As serbia you must track all the damaged units in your army and flip to the undamaged face (clicking on the button with two opposite arrows). Thus, your units are stronger and last longer (at least 4 or 5 combat rounds before you have to commit damaged units).
I think the best way to play as serbs is to have the forces together near Belgrade and try to eliminate austrian armies one by one and in the last turn retake Belgrade. With this tactic, reserve is not very important and cavalry can be used mora as an scout or as a quick-long range weapon to try to take Sarajevo or cut the austrian railroad north of Belgrade.
Now the bad news, tonight I followed this strategy: I didn't loss any combat (only one corps eliminated) or any city. Belgrade was lost and then retaken in the Oct turn (austrians conquered only two non-city/town hexes in all serb after 4 months of war, austrian used IInd Army (-3 VP), the game ended with 2 points (stars) and the title stated Central Powers minor victory. So, something is not good in this tactic or the VP/victory calculation is not correct. Calvinus?
Excellent advice, thanks, Montgommel.
I too have now tried the same approach several times: combine the 2 Serbian corps in the north and attack each AH army individually, continuing with rounds of combat until I've put as many AH corps as possible out of action (do only "Destroyed" corps count towards victory points, by the way, or also "Out of Combat", etc?).
Knowing that the RP flow will allow me to replenish all my corps, I take them down to low values during combat in an effort to destroy AH crops without having any of mine destroyed.
I made a mess of the AH armies, and I think I even captured or isolated an AH HQ (at least it was shown as a detachment in the region my main army was in - showed as a bar beneath the soldier sprite. Does that mean something, since I've not seen it before?).
I also think I captured Sarajevo with the 2 southern corps.
Still a draw, although I got 2 stars next to the Serbian flag in the scenario outcome screen, which is the best I've done so far!
Is there a way to review the scenario outcome and understand exactly what points were awarded for what, what losses were taken/inflicted, which corps performed well, etc? It seems the scenario result screen only provides the option to exit to the main menu, unless I'm mistaken.
Feel like I'm now making progress, but I want to WIN!!!!
Cheers,
R
calvinus wrote:If you want to win, why don't you try another scenario like 1914?
Sorry, I meant I wanted to win the Serbia scenario (as Serbia), since I have played it many times, and I want to beat it.
Just had another draw, with 3 stars this time (Austria had 1), but my HQ got isolated and was disbanded! Must read the rules about supply and isolation!!!!
I don't want to move on to the bigger scenarios until I feel I've got a firm hold of the basic combat/manouevre concepts.
I will keep trying until I get a win, and will post when I do. Don't hold your breath...
R
calvinus wrote:Perhaps there could be some flaw in victory calculation for that scenario. So take heart and move to a bigger challenge. This is not more than a suggestion, of course.
Edit: also you can switch side and play with Austria!
Thanks for all your support Calvinus and Montgommel - it's been really helpful, and I will now leave you alone.
Right, tried as Austria and got a Minor Victory (with 1 star) first go!
Now using Montgommel's 'attrition' strategy during combat, which means keeping the rounds of combat going until the enemy is greatly reduced, ideally without committing already weakened units that are vulnerable to destruction. I wasn't doing this before, rather, as soon as a unit was wounded (white striped), I would not commit it further.
Idea is to avoid destruction of units, but out of combat, disorganised, etc. are OK, because I can refill them with RPs. Does this approach make sense?
I called in the IInd army, because otherwise I don't feel Austria has enough firepower, and used the 2 northern armies in concert to avoid allowing the Serbs to attack only 1 army at a time.
Now, on to 1914...
R
Indeed, disorganized and out of combat results are "only" a tactical disadvantage to that battle, which can be decisive, but it will not destroy the unit so they are acceptable if victory can be achieved.
Of course, out of combat is more severe when/if you get counterattacked, or being on the receiving end of an enemy Reaction in strictly turn based mode, but you should not worry about those too much right now
Of course, out of combat is more severe when/if you get counterattacked, or being on the receiving end of an enemy Reaction in strictly turn based mode, but you should not worry about those too much right now
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