general's ranks

[caranorn]

I have noticed some problems with the ranks and seniority of various generals in the game so far. Unfortunatelly these varry from scenario to scenario (I agree with this, it's just unfortunate if you wish to correct them...).

For example, Eugène de Beauharnais is a 1* in both the 1809 and 1812 scenarios. Indeed he was no Marshal, but he was one of Napoleon's senior commanders, outranking everyone but Napoleon and Murat in 1812 for example (though you could also claim he was the only one with the guts to stay around once Napoleon started running). He should probably be a 3* in 1812 (at least a 21* with sufficient seniority to outrank all but Murat).

Generally speaking a few of the Marshals should consistently outrank others. I have a list of seniority for 1812 somewhere (based on actual command assignements, like Davout commanding Jerôme, Ponniatowski etc., Ney commanding Oudinot...).

I just noticed Murat doesn't seem to be included at the start of the 1812 scenario, is this intentional, an oversight or what? He commanded the Cavalry Reserve and for a short time the Grande Armée, he should probably start with one of his Cavalry Corps or with the Grande Armée.

[caranorn]

Here are the relative seniority ratings I had/have for my 1812 game project. These are of course my interpretation based on who commanded what during the actual campaign.

Napoléon 1
Murat 2
Eugène 3
Davout 4
Ney 5
Jérôme 6
Victor 7
Mortier 8
Bessières 9
Lefevbre 10
Oudinot 11
Mac Donald 12
Augereau 13
Schwarzenberg 14
Poniatowski 15
Saint Cyr 16
Vandamme 17
Réynier 18
Grouchy 19
Latour-Maubourg 20
Nansouty 21
Montbrun 22

[PhilThib]

That's excellent..may be you can extend your analysis to each scenario then

[caranorn]

I'd have to know those better:-( Maybe I can try with the 1805 scenario and the 1813/14 ones. I'll take a look later.

[Matthieu Brevet]

But if Napoleon said otherwise, the ranking order of the marshals was the one of their promotion. And contrary to what people may think, the #1 wasn't Murat but ...

1. Berthier (major-general of the army)
2. Murat (lieutenant of the Emperor)
3. Moncey (the most senior)
4. Jourdan
5. Masséna
6. Augereau
7. Bernadotte
8. Brune
9. Soult
10. Lannes
11. Mortier
12. Ney
13. Davout (the most junior)
14. Bessières
-. Kellerman Sr., Perignon, Serrurier & Lefebvre were non-ranked since only marshals honoris causa: only Lefebvre will actually resume his military career after his promotion.

15. "Victor"
16. Macdonald
17. Oudinot
18. Marmont
19. Suchet
20. Gouvion St-Cyr
21. Poniatowski
22. Grouchy

In late 1808/early 1809, when Napoleon is stuck in Spain or Paris, it is Berthier whom is tasked with commanding the Armée d'Allemagne over Davout. But left to himself, Berthier made only wrong moves. It is Davout, on his own initiative, who took the situation at hands; but nevertheless, he was still nominally under Berthier's orders.

In 1805, 1806, 1808 (Spain), 1812 & 1813, Murat is in charge of several detached corps when Berthier was staying with Napoleon as his chief of staff. But when Napoleon left the army at Smorgoni, it isn't in Eugene's hands, as said above, that he left his army, but still in Berthier's, despite its blunders of 1809. According to several witnesses, Berthier was crying and begging for Napoleon to take him with him to France. When Napoleon left, Berthier stood in command, commanding nothing, for a short time, then left too for his principalty, passing command over to Murat. Murat did the same, and left for Naples soon, passing then command over to Eugene.

Eugene, therefor, was not outranking most of the marshals. Only in this very situation (end of the 1812 retreat & beginning of 1813) was he commanding over some marshals, but Napoleon quickly sent him back in Italy, where he had only lieutenant-generals under his orders(like in 1809). I think he should be ranked between the last of the 1805's marshals and Victor (he was made vice-roy of Italy before Victor was made a marshal), but for the begining of 1813, where he should rank #4 ... by accident.

Neither were Napoleon's brothers Jerome & Joseph outranking any marshals. Even when Joseph was king of Spain, none but his chief-of-staff Jourdan has ever obey his orders. In the Naples' 1806 campaign, where Joseph was nominally head of the army, it was Masséna who was really in command.
In 1812, Jerome, King of Westphalie, was under the orders of Davout, and when the two started arguing, it is Jerome who was sent back to his kingdom.

Of course, with time, some marshals went higher (Ney after 1812, ...) or lower (Brune after 1805, ...) in Napoleon's opinion. But this ranking list remains almost unchanged thru the Empire.

Matthieu