The eagle needs wings

[Franciscus]

Unless I am mistaken, this otherwise good game can suffer from a relatively serious flaw, as to the army (especially Napoleon's one) organization - it was common to have wings, eg more or less autonomous entities of the grand armee, led by a marshal with more than one corps (ex, the Oudinot command in the Leipzig campaign, that tried to make a drive to Berlin, and the "ailes" in the waterloo campaign), and this is not modeled. Even in the Waterloo scenario, the Wings do not seem to be a working entity per se (no bonus, etc), but they should.
I think that the engine, maybe in the next incarnation, should have an upper level of command, below the army commander and above the corps (this could also be useful for AACW), that could be named, well, wings

Any ideas ?

[morvael]

I think that wings could be represented as separate armies in the AGEOD engine. Wings used on large theatres are just that - separate armies consisting of several corps operating on their own.
The "wings" in case of Waterloo campaign are a different matter but do they really offered new quality for Napoleon? Basing on the effects (D'Erlon marches on 16th or Grouchy wasting time on 18th) - I think not

edit: To clarify - in my opinion wings in the Napoleonic period work as armies but have more meaning on the paper-work level to show who's taking orders from whom. In this case as all units from main army down to a single militia regiment take orders from the player - so the wings are really just a "name".

[Franciscus]

Two points:
- Of course every unit is under our command, but one of the (good) features of the Ageod engine is to simulate the chain of command, meaning (and not restricted to) that the units get benefits (or malus) from being part of a division, corp, army, from their respective commander. And that is not simulated at the "wing" level.

- One possible solution indeed would be to have the possibility of creating a new army instead of wing. But several problems would arise. We would need to order and wait for the creation of new army headquarters, and this might not be pratical in relatively short scenarios, and these "sub" armies would not get any benefits from Napoleon (which after all, might not be unrealistical; for example in the 1813 campaign one of the problems was that each "command" (Oudinot's, etc) was relatively easily beaten by the allies precisely because Napoleon could not be everywhere at the same time).

[PhilThib]

In the next patch, we tried the "wing" story for the 1815 scenario (the two wings are indeed some armies)... may be we can implement it for other scenarios if need be (1812 ?)

[Franciscus]

In the next patch, we tried the "wing" story for the 1815 scenario (the two wings are indeed some armies)... may be we can implement it for other scenarios if need be (1812 ?)

100% in favor !!

But my concern is the lack of flexibilty for the player to do this in a grand campaign setting. Maybe you should consider this for NCP 2.0
(some ideas to simulate the more autonomous role of this "super" corps - reduce the command distance for an army HQ to be able to influence it and/or reduce the army commander influence over a wing stack ?)

[Walloc]

In the next patch, we tried the "wing" story for the 1815 scenario (the two wings are indeed some armies)... may be we can implement it for other scenarios if need be (1812 ?)

Guess it depence on ur definition, but both in '12,'13 and '14 u could possibly use it.
The northern wing, in '12.
Army of the Bober and Army of the Berlin in '13
Marmonts commands in '14.

Depending on how the mechanics work in the game. Is it to show a seperat armies as the 2 in the '13 or only showing the 2 Ailes in '15. To answer one of the above posters no it doesnt give Napoleon more quality, but i suppose thats the idea behind it.
Command structure wise Napoleon and his armies declined in quality/structure later on. Armies simply got to big for 1 man to handle in short as well as his prograsing age and sickness.
I dont think a Napoleon of 1805 would have needed the command structure of the '15 campaign, but by then he did. Since he wasnt in command of all and all details, his genius touch is naturally is seen much less and the at same time incompetence or at leased lack off in certain generals shine through. As they have a larger share of decision making to do.


Kind regards,

Rasmus