Cavalry use questions

[FM WarB]

Some armies like to attach cavalry regts to infantry divisions. Others (mainly French) concentrate cavalry (with horse artillery where available) into cavalry brigades/divisions and Corps.
For gameplay, what are the uses and advantages/disadvantages of either approach?

[Nikel]

I am not an expert in AGEOD games in general nor NCP in particular. In fact I am still trying to understand the game So sorry if something is wrong

So waiting for somebody else to answer, I can say that specific cavalry divisions or forces move faster, the speed of movement of a force is limited by the slowest element, so a corps with an infantry division and a cavalry division will move as infantry.

Detection is better for cavalry than infantry, so if you have a cavalry division and an infantry division on your corps, you corps have the detection rating of cavalry.

If you have cavalry units in your force a succesful cavalry charge (assault fase) can be devastating, and if you win a battle you can pursue the routed enemies and inflict more losses.


As the expert NCP gamers have been routed , perhaps any AACW experienced player can comment something, I suppose it is the same in NCP and AACW in this aspect.

[arsan]

Hi!

I'm just beginning to tinker around with NCP so i'm here mostly to listen, not to speak
The question is a good one indeed.
The problem is that my experience with AACW is not too usefull here as the ACW cavalry is very different form the NCP one.
Different stats, different uses... on ACW there is no cavalry charge system nor there are squares. Basically,the ACW cav is not too good to use on big battles.
Is just like fast but weak infantry

On ACW i use cavalry as
1 - fast raiders evading combat and destroying what rails and depots they can get.
2 - As in deep scouts to check what the enemy is doing, again with evade combat orders.
3 - Medium sized cavalry stacks are used to defend my territory against enemy raiding cavalry, doing search&destroy missions.
4 - On secondary fronts with not too much force density and plenty of space to run around (the west and transmississippi mainly) i form cavalry divisions with horse guns as fast moving combat troops. They are weaker than infantry divisions but can get somewhere pretty fast and defeat small forces or second rate units (militias, garrisons).
5- On all my infantry divisions i like to have a cav regiment for their spotting bonus.


Now, on NCP game, some of these missions are no useful at all (rails blowing?)... other should be useful still (some limited raiding, scouting, fast divisions to use against weak units, for example militias and irregulars on the Peninsular War...)
But i suppose now cavalry should be pretty useful in real big battles, but don't know if mixed or on independent stacks.
Also it would be good to hear for some tips about the sue of different kind of cavalry: heavy, light, capable of firing like dragoons...


Regards

[Nikel]

Great post arsan, thanks


There are no cavalry charges on AACW? I can imaging south cavalrymen charging the northern lines

And very interested too in the differences: heavy, medium and light, there are no cavalry types in AACW?

[arsan]

There are no cavalry charges on AACW? I can imaging south cavalrymen charging the northern lines

... and dying in droves at 300 metres of the enemy line by the effect of rifle muskets fire leure:
For what i know there wasn't many (if at all) cavalry charges on the Civil War, at least against formed infantry. During raids and on small skirmishes it could had been different.
The muskets used on the Civil war were rifled and had better accuracy and effective range (about 300-500 meters versus 80-100 metres) that the Napoleonic ones so a headlong charge against formed infantry would had been a suicide. Not need to worry about forming square...
ACW cavalry missions were mainly scouting, screening the main forces, skirmishing to delay the enemy, raiding... they were no shock cavalry like the curiassers.
On battles they usually fought on foot, as skirmishers armed with carbines on the flanks of the main battle line or even formed in line like infantry.

On AACW there is just one flavour of cavalry, but they can be elite, line, conscripts and come in lone regiments (usually) or on brigades (special historic units).
Besides as the war progresses they can evolve yo a lete war version with higher fire-power because of the use of repeating carbines.
On the real war, Union cavalry and mounted infantry armed with repeating carbines were a force to be reckoned late in the war as they were teh only one on the field with repeating arms.

Regards!
PS: this is kind of off topic isn't it??

[Nikel]

... and dying in droves at 300 metres of the enemy line by the effect of rifle muskets fire leure:

Is there a better way to die?




In the wikipedia article about charges, there are two famous infantry charges and one cavalry charge in the ACW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_(warfare)



And the famous charge of the Light Brigade in the crimean war was a few years before the ACW, well they were massacred by artillery not infantry fire


Offtopic? Why, we are talking about cavalry

[Heldenkaiser]

For what i know there wasn't many (if at all) cavalry charges on the Civil War, at least against formed infantry.

There was notable instance on the third day at Gettysburg where I believe Kilpatrick ordered a mounted charge against Reb infantry which to boot had a stonewall or a treeline or some other obstacle as cover. The charge was considered a monumental stupidity by practically everyone involved or present even before it happened, and of course failed spectacularly.

Other than that, cavalry usually charged mounted only against other cavalry.

[Franciscus]

[quote="Heldenkaiser"]There was notable instance on the third day at Gettysburg where I believe Kilpatrick ordered a mounted charge against Reb infantry which to boot had a stonewall or a treeline or some other obstacle as cover. The charge was considered a monumental stupidity by practically everyone involved or present even before it happened, and of course failed spectacularly. QUOTE]

For this and other similar expoits, his nickname was "Kill cavalry", BTW

[arsan]

Yeah, Killpatrick... what an asshole!

If i remember right what i read of this on Shelby Foote Civil War the "charge" was not even done against the front of the rebel battle line.
The union cavalry was on the extreme left and charged against a couple of CSA regiments deployed as skirmishers on second line covering the open flank/rear of the "real" battle line whose front was heavily engaged on the Devils den and Little Round Top.
Even this "small" covering force was able the shatter this charging troopers.
In reality it was a "minor" rear area engagement considering the size of Gettysburg Battle but pretty well known because of the stupidity of the orders
I suppose in a Napoleonic times, an infantry force deployed as skirmishers (even with the support of a stone wall) would had been easy prey against a cavalry charge.

Regards!

[Heldenkaiser]

I suppose in a Napoleonic times, an infantry force deployed as skirmishers (even with the support of a stone wall) would had been easy prey against a cavalry charge.

Well, the stone wall would have helped. But generally in the Napoleonic Wars skirmishers were just supposed to go to ground on the approach of cavalry and let is pass by. Sometimes they would try to form small groups, sort of mini-squares, to avoid being run over.

[arsan]

Well, the stone wall would have helped. But generally in the Napoleonic Wars skirmishers were just supposed to go to ground on the approach of cavalry and let is pass by. Sometimes they would try to form small groups, sort of mini-squares, to avoid being run over.

Uhmm not a very promising prospect
I mean, if the skirmishers are on the way of a cavalry charge directed against another units behind them , go to the grounds or find some ditch to hide could be a good idea.
But if you are the objective of the cavalry, "playing dead" seems a desperate measure leure:
Troopers could hunt you at ease... specially lancers
Regards

[FM WarB]

Say you have a Corps with two infantry divisions, one which has a cav regt. attached. Why not disband the inf div, to have the cav under Corps command (with adequate CPs to do so)?

[Heldenkaiser]

Uhmm not a very promising prospect
I mean, if the skirmishers are on the way of a cavalry charge directed against another units behind them , go to the grounds or find some ditch to hide could be a good idea.
But if you are the objective of the cavalry, "playing dead" seems a desperate measure leure:
Troopers could hunt you at ease... specially lancers
Regards

If you really hug the ground, only lancers have a chance to hurt you. That's btw how the lance made it back into most European armies shortly before WW1 - as a result of the colonial experience with very "light" enemies.

But in Napoleonic times, actually killing skirmishers was not a cavalry task. Driving them away was, though.

[jastaV]

Hi!

On ACW i use cavalry as
1 - fast raiders evading combat and destroying what rails and depots they can get.
2 - As in deep scouts to check what the enemy is doing, again with evade combat orders.
3 - Medium sized cavalry stacks are used to defend my territory against enemy raiding cavalry, doing search&destroy missions.
4 - On secondary fronts with not too much force density and plenty of space to run around (the west and transmississippi mainly) i form cavalry divisions with horse guns as fast moving combat troops. They are weaker than infantry divisions but can get somewhere pretty fast and defeat small forces or second rate units (militias, garrisons).
5- On all my infantry divisions i like to have a cav regiment for their spotting bonus.

Regards

I played NCP ver 1.03 extensively for weeks before going after AACW.
May be something could be changed with ver 1.04 patch, anyway I noticed Cavalry is very vulnerable to attrition in NCP compared to AACW.
That's true expecially during winter game turns.
In NCP moving regular calvary deed in enemy territory, for scouting and raiding, is a way to loose units.
NCP calvary works fine for screaning large friendly Forces movement, prevent enemy units infiltration, and enemy persuit following a successful battle, ( this last is computed by NCP engine in battle resolution casualties).
That was most common cavalry employement doctrine in Napoleonic Age, too!

Light, irregular calvary should work fine, being tought to attrition losses, for deep raids and deep recons......see russian Cossaks!

BTW, I fully agree with Arsan as regard AACW cavalry usage report!!!!!