Hi folks, it seems from the way the Napoleonic scenarios are set up that most French Divisions only have 5 - 8 or so units in them as opposed to the 18 in AACW. Is this a realistic number? I know nothing about the make up of Napoleonic Divisions but for the sake of having the best commanders commanding the most units I tend to strip the weaker commanders of their units and send them to garrison towns and add the spare units to the better commanders - ending up with Divisions of up to 18. However this gives me the feeling that I'm distributing my units in an ahistorical way. Is this the case? If so should not the number of units allowed in a Division be lowered from 18? Are there any handicaps to having 18 units in a Division in NCP?
The other observation is that it seems impossible to add fixed units to a Divisional commander even though the + symbol is highlighted on the commander menu. Is there a reason for this - not sure if this was the case with AACW?
Why should fixed units not enjoy the benefit of a commander?
Cheers, Chris
I'd say it is realistic and historical. In 1812, Davout's I Corps had as much as 17 or 20 battalions in a Division. Yet, I would say that Davout was pretty much the exception.
Here is a very quick and rough overview:
At Austerlitz the French had 9-10. Some Allied Division sized units had as many as 9 at Austerlitz. Some smaller.
At Eylau, the French had 7-11 battalions, while the Russians had 6-7-9-14 to 15 with one division that even had had 21 battalions (Osten-Sacken I's Third Division).
At Wagram, it was common to see 12-16 battalions. The Austrians had 8-13.
At Borodino,the French had 12-15-17-18-20. The Russians had as many as 12.
At Waterloo, the French had 8-12. The Prussians had 9-10-12. The Anglo-Allied divisions had similar numbers.
It all depended upon the commander and their leader's confidence in the commander.
I don't think the number should be lowered. (Maybe it should even be raised in a few instances.) IIRC, it all depends upon the commander's command points in the game. If there isn't enough command points, then maybe the leader won't be able to handle them.
Not sure about fixed units. Maybe they do benefit.
Here is a very quick and rough overview:
At Austerlitz the French had 9-10. Some Allied Division sized units had as many as 9 at Austerlitz. Some smaller.
At Eylau, the French had 7-11 battalions, while the Russians had 6-7-9-14 to 15 with one division that even had had 21 battalions (Osten-Sacken I's Third Division).
At Wagram, it was common to see 12-16 battalions. The Austrians had 8-13.
At Borodino,the French had 12-15-17-18-20. The Russians had as many as 12.
At Waterloo, the French had 8-12. The Prussians had 9-10-12. The Anglo-Allied divisions had similar numbers.
It all depended upon the commander and their leader's confidence in the commander.
I don't think the number should be lowered. (Maybe it should even be raised in a few instances.) IIRC, it all depends upon the commander's command points in the game. If there isn't enough command points, then maybe the leader won't be able to handle them.
Not sure about fixed units. Maybe they do benefit.
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Duc_d_Heilsberg
- Lieutenant
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:57 pm
- Location: Tournon sur Rhône, France
LeTOndu,
Just replace 'batallion'
by 'regiment' 
, it will be OK. You're talking only about infantry regiments in a division, keep in mind you have to add the artillery and sometimes (rarely) other cavalry or support units.
As far as the problem of the size of a force is concerned, it seems there's no ideal solution.
I believe a more historical way would be to limit the CP number individually for each commander (depending of its own competences or the national administrative rules) for each campaign.
That was for feeding the discussion...
Just replace 'batallion'
by 'regiment' , it will be OK. You're talking only about infantry regiments in a division, keep in mind you have to add the artillery and sometimes (rarely) other cavalry or support units.
As far as the problem of the size of a force is concerned, it seems there's no ideal solution.
I believe a more historical way would be to limit the CP number individually for each commander (depending of its own competences or the national administrative rules) for each campaign.
That was for feeding the discussion...
[color="DarkGreen"][font="Arial"]
L'art d'être tantôt très audacieux et tantôt très prudent est l'art de réussir.
[/color]Napoléon Bonaparte [/font]
L'art d'être tantôt très audacieux et tantôt très prudent est l'art de réussir.
[/color]Napoléon Bonaparte [/font]
Mmmmmmmmmmm. Tastes good Duc_d_Heilsberg.
Thanks for the correction.
Hmmmm. 18 Regiments in a Division is the norm? Wow, that is a LOT. That could mean anywhere from [color="Blue"]18[/color] to [SIZE="4"][color="DarkOrange"]36[/color][/size] to [SIZE="7"][color="Red"]90[/color][/size] battalions in a Division??? That seems way too high, IMHO. Do I have that right?
Thanks for the correction.
Hmmmm. 18 Regiments in a Division is the norm? Wow, that is a LOT. That could mean anywhere from [color="Blue"]18[/color] to [SIZE="4"][color="DarkOrange"]36[/color][/size] to [SIZE="7"][color="Red"]90[/color][/size] battalions in a Division??? That seems way too high, IMHO. Do I have that right?
No.. you have that wrong. The rules allow a division to consist of a maximum of 18 elements (and that includes the Division Cdr). So the most you can put into a division would be 17 elements.
Now this could mean putting 17 arty batteries in a Division, or 17 battalions or regiments or any combination thereof.
Just because you can do this... doesn't necessarily mean you should. There are tactical considerations that must be taken into account also. For one thing, artillery at the Divisional level only fires on enemy units attacking other units belonging to its Division--whereas if artillery batteries are assigned at the Corps level, they fire at the largest (i.e. most threatening) enemy unit.
Also, do you want to load up certain commanders with troops at the expense of others? Even the best commanders take a day off occasionally and there's nothing worse than seeing your best commander with your best troops suddenly decide to go Inactive on a turn you had planned to use him. This is just Murphy's Law. Spreading troops around as widely as possible minimises the effect of any one commander going numb for a turn.
As a practical matter I think keeping Divisions at their historical levels is the best policy. I can't prove it mathematically; it's just a hunch.
Usually a Division consists of two brigades (each with two regiments) plus an artillery battery and maybe an element of cavalry. In most cases this represents from 9 to 12 elements.
Laurence
Now this could mean putting 17 arty batteries in a Division, or 17 battalions or regiments or any combination thereof.
Just because you can do this... doesn't necessarily mean you should. There are tactical considerations that must be taken into account also. For one thing, artillery at the Divisional level only fires on enemy units attacking other units belonging to its Division--whereas if artillery batteries are assigned at the Corps level, they fire at the largest (i.e. most threatening) enemy unit.
Also, do you want to load up certain commanders with troops at the expense of others? Even the best commanders take a day off occasionally and there's nothing worse than seeing your best commander with your best troops suddenly decide to go Inactive on a turn you had planned to use him. This is just Murphy's Law. Spreading troops around as widely as possible minimises the effect of any one commander going numb for a turn.
As a practical matter I think keeping Divisions at their historical levels is the best policy. I can't prove it mathematically; it's just a hunch.
Usually a Division consists of two brigades (each with two regiments) plus an artillery battery and maybe an element of cavalry. In most cases this represents from 9 to 12 elements.
Laurence
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