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TheDoctorKing
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How would I go about creating a new map?

Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:18 am

Looking at the game files, I think I can see how the map is coded. How would I go about creating a new map? I can't imagine anybody coding all that stuff by hand; is there a utility?
Stewart King

"There is no substitute for victory"

Depends on how you define victory.

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Pocus
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Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:27 pm

You have 300 hours free these months, right? Just for the map I mean.

You'll start by using Exmap, the map utility (slightly buggy and a bit old) that we use to create maps.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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TheDoctorKing
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Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:21 pm

Depends on what the future holds. If I am to be unemployed soon then I have lots of free time.

Where do I find this utility? I need a map of the Americas, North, South, and Caribbean, at about an RUS scale. I'm thinking about that American wars of independence game.

Second question, how do I tell the AGE engine what map to use? I was thinking I would use the RUS engine as it looks like the most advanced version of the AGE program right now.
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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Nikel
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Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:24 pm

Look at this Pocus' thread for the map utility

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=5358

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TheDoctorKing
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Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:00 am

Is there anybody out there who has used this Exmap utility to create a new map and can give me some hints? I find myself entirely baffled by the program. I don't even know what it is supposed to do.

I am attempting to create a map of the Americas, including the Atlantic and Gulf coasts of the US, the Caribbean islands, and all of South America. I want off-map boxes for Canada, the west coast of the US, European countries, and some African locations. I want about 2000 on-map regions. How would I go about creating such a thing?
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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TheDoctorKing
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Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:05 pm

Well, I managed to load up the map that Halbardier sent me, but for some reason now I have two maps superimposed on one another, the US map for AACW and the Latin America map. It is kind of odd looking.

How can I create a new map using this utility?
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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Pocus
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Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:48 am

Actually you don't create the map file with the utility. The goal of the utility is to display a bitmap file (your map) and then work with it to add regions (this will create .rgn files).

So be sure to have your bitmap file ready before anything. Sorry for being not that helpful, but as long as the team is in 'reduced mode', some of us being on vacation, we have even less time than usual for these questions.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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TheDoctorKing
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Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:49 am

I understand if you don't have much time for this. I just wish there were some documentation to go with this program.

So I have a .bmp file that Halbardier sent me. I have named it "map.bmp". When I put it in a new directory under 'exmap" (..\exmap\libertad) I get a host of error messages. When I put it in the 'exmap\ACW' directory that came with the program, I get the South America map overlaid with the ACW map. Very confusing. What is the proper directory structure for this and what files do you need
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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Gray-Lensman
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Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:07 am

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Stwa
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Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:08 pm

Gray-Lensman wrote:Now here exists a golden opportunity to help someone in my new (behind the scenes) way as I intended to all along, but unfortunately that's just not going to happen until the Gray_Lensman (underscore) login is restored so that I can use the PM system with that login. I refuse to use this Gray-Lensman (dash) login for such a purpose.

The idea of keeping me from my old login to prevent further deletions is rather moot and comparable to attempting to close the barn door after the horses have already escaped. Those remaining 483 posts are in locked threads that I couldn't delete even if I wanted to. So, the ball is in AGEOD's court... Do they want to allow me to support (behind the scenes) their game engine by responding to those individuals who ask for information in a polite way as I wanted to all along, or do they want to remain indignant because their lack of moderator forum support for me resulted in such deletion measures? It will be interesting to observe if they can actually overcome their bias in favor of accepting this new way of utilizing my support.


[color="Red"][SIZE="4"]YOU'VE GOT MAIL[/size][/color] :neener:

Just kidding ... :wacko:

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TheDoctorKing
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Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:46 am

Stwa wrote:[color="Red"][SIZE="4"]YOU'VE GOT MAIL[/size][/color] :neener:

Just kidding ... :wacko:


Yeah, if only. I'm sure he knows exactly how to work this damn thing after all the sweating he did on the AACW map. Oh, well.
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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Stwa
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Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:11 am

TheDoctorKing wrote:Yeah, if only. I'm sure he knows exactly how to work this damn thing after all the sweating he did on the AACW map. Oh, well.


Yup, but there are plenty of people around here that know how to use the program, but they are either to busy to help, or they want to keep what they know a beeg secret. :blink:

For what little I use if for, it works like a champ. :wacko:

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Stwa
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Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:53 am

Gray_Lensman wrote:I'm using ACW for my answers here, as BOA may or may not have some differences, though I suspect not.

In ACW:

A scenario's preexisting structures are automatically created if the "CityLevel" number is anything other than "0". This column is just to the right of the "CityName" column. If you look at any particular AACW_Setup*.xls" file and bring up the "Cities_Controls" tab, you will see the various City names either in regular print or italicized. (Italicizing was done just for contrast, it doesn't do anything of course to the output files)

If the region's "CityLevel" is greater than "0", then a structure will automatically be created with the cooresponding name from the "CityName" column for that same region and placed on the map at the "Coo0" coordinates referred to above.

The Coo0 coordinates place the initial structure base plate, which you can see once you have ExMap.

The Coo1 coordinates determine the "initial?" placement of the unit(s) when they are put in place on the game map. (I say initial, because if you have more than one, you'll see the addt'l ones at other locations obviously)

The Coo2 coordinates determines the small anchor symbol in ExMap, and probably the small "Harbor/Anchorage" in-game. (I say "Probably", because I have not actually checked this out, being busy with the RR work)

Finally, the Coo3 coordinates determine the placement in-game of the small sprite/icons depicting rail-cuts, frozen rivers, etc.

The reason it is important to use ExMap for "official" work is that it not only generates the coordinates referred to above, it also generates the coordinates to the various border points that determine the exact area of the .bmp files that correspond to that .rgn file. A good example of a mismatch has been posted at this link: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7330

In that case, it had a properly edited .rgn file for that region, but the .bmp file used was accidentally from an earlier .rgn definition file resulting in the ugly displacement anomaly.

Eventually, I actually plan to go thru all the ACW regions, one last time in ExMap, to double-check all the default region object placements referred to above, as some of them are placed rather willy-nilly within the various little used regions. Little-used meaning they have no pre-existing structures defined yet. I suspect the Coo0 coordinate in that case would be used for the base location of a newly created depot, etc. though I have not had time to experiment with this yet.

As stated earlier, I haven't figured out how to change those coordinates referred to above within ExMap, itself, though there is probably a way. Instead, going slightly against convention, I have been editing those coordinates using NotePad, then immediately going into ExMap to verify, the change is valid, and regenerating the same output file from ExMap at that point. If one of the developers could point out how to actually change the coordinates of a specific point within ExMap, it would actually be a better way of doing it, and save some back and forth time (entering & exiting the ExMap program and/or actual game, which takes even longer)

BTW, the ExMap program as linked to me, did not have an install program. Instead it is just compressed into a folder named "ExMap". For ACW, I placed this folder within the C:/AGEod's American Civil War/ folder (same level as the "ACW" folder). For BOA or whatever, I would suggest doing the same, just to keep things tidy in case you end up working on more than one game with ExMap and don't want to get confused as to which one is which. Wherever you place it, once placed, you will need to manually go into the main "ExMap" folder file list and edit the "ExMap2.ini" file to tell it where to find it's files. It has it's own ...ACW folder within it, so don't let that confuse you. Generally, it just involves changing the drive letter if necessary and/or the base installation folder name.

Also, before starting, in order to be up to date with the .rgn files, I delete the entire Region folder within ExMap's folder structure, "...ExMap/ACW/GameData/Regions", then copy/paste the cooresponding game ...ACW/GameData/Regions folder back into the ExMap location just deleted. This gives you a base starting point in regard to the latest update information for the game you are working with.

One last item, to generate the output files from ExMap, you use the "Ext. Current Region" button. This generates both the .rgn file and a .bmp of the current selected region using the "Map" you currently have loaded into ExMap. Since the Maps are somewhat dated and may not be up-to-date in some areas. I would suggest you "only" use the "Ext. Current Region"

Both of these files will be placed in the ExMap/ACW/GameData/Regions folder. Yes, this includes the graphic .bmp files just generated. The name will always be the base name, meaning if you have generated a "Winterized" .bmp, you will have to manually rename it to append the "Winter_" to the start of the name. This is rather important to remember because you can't just generate the standard map .bmp file, switch maps and then generate the Winterized .bmp file, as they will overwrite each other.

Hopefully, I have given you enough information to start with. If by chance you discover some short-cuts that save some of the time working with it, I would definitely appreciate the feedback, as it will help speed up my constant and continuing use of it in the RR work.

Regards

Gray_Lensman



[color="Red"][SIZE="3"]Oh, and here is a little help from Grey_Lensman.[/size][/color] :w00t:

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TheDoctorKing
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:12 pm

Stwa wrote:Yup, but there are plenty of people around here that know how to use the program, but they are either to busy to help, or they want to keep what they know a beeg secret. :blink:

For what little I use if for, it works like a champ. :wacko:


Thanks,

So, looking at your directory, you have ExMap2.exe and Exmap2.ini in your mian Exmap directory, then in the subordinate directory you have BOA-map.jpg and map.bmp. Those two files look the same, are they really the same? So if I translate my map.bmp into "Libertad-map.jpg" then the file will open? The file I have has lines and such on it but I don't have any region files to go with it. Can I use the program to draw the region borders or do I have to find the region files that go with the .bmp I have?

Would it be better to start with a "fresh" .bmp and .jpg file with no region lines on them and draw for myself?

Thanks
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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Pocus
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Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:44 pm

map.bmp is sufficient, jpg must be a backup. The name should be map.bmp also.

Usually, we start from zero (if there is a crash, add the region file containing UID 0 (the first region) from another game and edit it), by defining each region, and they follow what is on our bmp.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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TheDoctorKing
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Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:17 am

Cool! I got it open.

How big can the map file be?

How do I scroll around the map? Right now, all I can see is a bit of the Canadian Maratimes and a lot of the North Atlantic...

Thanks,
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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Pocus
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Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:01 pm

BOA2 is 11.000 x 11.000 pixels, so anything up to 150.000.000 pixels, for a game based on ROP is ok (I suggest ROP as a base, this is the most recent of the AGE2 games).

If you base yourself on PON (AGE3), then the map is made of 1.300.000.000 pixels (8x the biggest AGE2 map).

Generally you scroll around by moving to the edges, it should work... if not, you click on the minimap... You don't see a minimap? This is because you have not replaced the previous minimap.bmp* file with a correct one (a miniature of your big map, keeping proportions).

* I cite the name from memory, as exmap is only installed on one of my other computer right now.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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TheDoctorKing
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Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:35 pm

Great! Thanks, on my way. FYI for anybody else following this discussion - the minimap file is called "jumpmap.bmp". I made mine 10% of the size of the main map and it worked fine. You can scroll around the map using the arrow keys, rolling over the border does not seem to work for me.

One more question - is it possible to zoom? Some of my regions are going to be pretty tiny - I'm hoping to have two regions on at least some of the more strategic of the Lesser Antilles islands like Guadeloupe.

I may try to make an insert map for those islands or make them larger in some way, hmmm...
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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Pocus
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Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:14 pm

No there is no zoom... The map you have is the 100% zoom level once in the game, so you can't zoom in anyway. Doing an insert is a good enough solution imo.

Also, you have to know that the game don't support a region totally surrounded by another, like the yellow of the egg surrounded by the white, if a picture is needed :)
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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TheDoctorKing
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Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:42 pm

Great, thanks.

I think what I'll do is have an insert map for the Caribbean islands. There's a lot of action that takes place out there especially in the 1790-1815 scenario. We'll have the regions out in the Atlantic somewhere with jumplinks that connect them to the appropriate sea areas. Anyway, I'll see if I can make it work.

A larger map might be useful too. Maximum of 11,000 pixels each way, right?
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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Pocus
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Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:48 pm

you can go bigger in one dimension if you go smaller in another, say 15.000 x 10.000 is ok too.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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TheDoctorKing
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Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:36 pm

Is there anybody out there who subscribes to or owns some GIS program or map database? I am looking around for a map of the Americas of suitable size (11,000 x 11,000 pixel .bmp) and there doesn't seem to be much available for free. I'd prefer a topographic map with color reflecting terrain heights or some sort of physical map. I liked the SRTM NASA maps but they didn't have Mexico or Central America or the Caribbean islands at least in a format I could use. Any help from anybody?

I'd like to have coverage from northern Mexico to Patagonia. I was thinking two sections Mexico-Costa Rica and South America + Panama with the Caribbean islands separately at a smaller scale (so I can cut and paste to make the Caribbean islands sort of off-map boxes out in the Atlantic somewhere). I've done a little sketch map to give an idea of where I'm going with this.

[ATTACH]15805[/ATTACH]
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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Halberdier
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Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:43 pm

For my little mod I use an allegorical map, because a geographical map is not playable.


Image

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TheDoctorKing
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Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:12 pm

That's the sort of color I'm looking for but on a much smaller scale. I'm thinking of a map with about as many regions as RUS.

I want to have some sort of maneuvering be possible even on the medium-sized Caribbean islands like Jamaica. The fighting in Haiti and on the Lesser Antilles islands during the Napoleonic Wars could be very interesting if you had enough regions. Around each island there would be coastal sea zones, then those would be connected to oceanic zones on the main map.
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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Halberdier
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Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:28 pm

About the regions I suggest you to use an allegorical map with much more regions to do historical campaigns. For example: it is not usefull central America (you need only one region called: Guatemala), but Panama or Portobello are important historically and need their own regions.

I suggest you to use the map for historical battles (1700-1800):

Boxes (only naval battles)
-Madeira Islands
-Africa slave coast
-Bahamas islands
-Lesser Antillas islands
-New Guinea islands
-Polinesia islands
-Galapagos islands
-Falklands islands

Islands (with siege or ground battles)
see here
-Gibraltar (England)
-Tenerife (Canarias islands)
-Providencia (Bahamas islands)
-Trinidad (Lesser Antillas islands)
-Haití
-Jamaica
-Cuba
-Puerto Rico
-Margarita
-Chiloé
-Manila (Filipinas)

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TheDoctorKing
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Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:28 am

Interesting suggestion about the Philippines.

I'm thinking if we cover the 1776-1870s or 1880s period we will want to cover the struggles in Central America around the breakup of the federation and the American filibustering expeditions. Also we ought to leave room for players to explore alternative strategies. If the pro-independence player has greater success in Mexico, for example, he may be able to keep the Central Americans in an expanded Mexican empire. Iturbide tried.

The reason I want to have the Caribbean islands at a larger scale than the rest of the map is so as to allow some maneuvering during campaigns out there in the 1790-1815 period. There were extensive campaigns on some of those islands, lasting months and including both open-field maneuvers and sieges. So I want more than one region for Guadeloupe, St. Vincent, Martinique, Trinidad, Grenada, Barbados, and Margarita, and several regions for Hispaniola, Jamaica, and Cuba (and probably Puerto Rico as well).

I'm willing to divide Mexico/Central America from South America so that we could have Mexico at a somewhat larger scale and also because there's no practical overland connection between the two. Even today, I don't think anybody goes from Panama to Colombia by road.

The sea zones would be like in AACW, with small coastal zones and big oceanic zones. Chances of finding anybody on the high seas would have to be very very small, while the coastal zones would be more likely to produce battles between fleets. Some bays, harbors, and inland waters would also have zones of their own, as well as the Amazon River and Rio de la Plata. River battles were important in the Brazil-Argentina-Uruguay wars.
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



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Halberdier
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Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:35 am

1-About River battles, two very important for Bolivars campaign:

*Orinoco river (Venezuela)

*Magdalena river (Colombia)

2-see why Puerto Rico must be IMO

3-It is interesting to know whats wars you want to cover before the map. For example spanish american war 1898 ?

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TheDoctorKing
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Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:59 am

Yes, I had forgotten about the Magdalena and Orinoco, very important too.

Wars I was thinking of covering:

- The Grand Campaign: 1790-1830, Wars of Independence and national unification in Latin America. Pro-Independence and Colonial sides, with many factions on each side and the chance for some factions to change sides depending on political decisions. So the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars are the European context, but the campaigns of Saint-Domingue, the French in the Lesser Antilles, the British invasions of Argentina, etc. are fought out on the American scene with the possibility of creating independent countries. The pro-independence player can play political events to spark revolts in different places, British victory in the wars against Napoleon can turn the British into supporters of independence, the French can come to terms with their rebels, maybe even those in Guadeloupe, and so on. Finally, the Carlist Wars and civil wars in Portugal can hinder Iberian response to wars in their colonies.

There could also be several smaller scenarios:
- Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars, with British and French players and political events allowing the participation of various colonial and European forces.
- South American wars of independence, a one-map scenario
- Mexican war of independence, likewise, and a smaller map to boot

Then, I would add a couple of other scenarios for the 19th century
- Platine War, 1825-1828, Argentina-Uruguay-Brazil
- War of the Triple Alliance, 1864-1870, Argentina-Uruguay-Brazil-Paraguay
- War of the Reform and French intervention, Mexico, 1857-1868

I also thought about the War of the Pacific 1878-1883 and the Spanish-American War 1898 (with preceding Cuban War of Independence) but I think that in both cases the changes in technology as a result of the industrial revolution would require dramatic changes in the game rules and might be too confusing or hard to simulate.

Another thing to add might be the War of American Independence in the Caribbean, 1779-1783. This would involve adding Florida and the US Gulf Coast to the map. This was mostly a naval struggle, though.
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Halberdier
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Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:46 am

A single map is far more pleasing esthetically IMO. To do that, I propose you reduce south america 50%x50% to do a square, for exaple: between Guayaquil (west) - Quito (north) - Río Janeiro (east) -Cape Horn (south).

Image

Colombia and Venezuela are inseparability from Caribe. See here and the help of Haití to mulatto Manuel Piar.

Texas, New Orleans and Floridasmust be too.

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TheDoctorKing
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Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:14 pm

Brazil should appear as well. There was a certain amount of fighting between Portugal and Brazil around their independence and also Brazil fought in two wars against their neighbors in the early 19th century.

Here's an idea, how about putting the northwest at the top?

Still would have the problem of pretty small regions in Mexico, though. Or really big ones in Patagonia.

[ATTACH]15827[/ATTACH]

Those islands on the left-hand side include ones big enough for several regions for Cuba, Hispaniola, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, big enough for two or three regions for Guadeloupe, Martinique, Grenada, St. Vincent, Barbados, Trinidad, Margarita, and single-region ones for the other Caribbean islands, Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao, Tobago, the Grenadines, St. Lucia, Montserrat, Saba, St. Eustatius, St. Kitts, St. Martin, Antigua, Virgin Islands (one region for the BVI and another for the Danish VI), Bahamas, Turks/Caicos, Caymans, probably can put the Bay Islands and Providencia on the main map.
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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